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Old 19th February 2008, 23:47   #1381
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Originally Posted by sanjaylakhani View Post
Hi

Gone throught all the threads thrice....confused big time...

Recently bought Swift and wish to go for the following system for ICE. I am a novice so pls do not mind my ignorance.Need expert advise from you gurus...


1)Infinity 6020CS -- front door
2)Infinity 6022i- rear door
3)Amp- blanupunkt- GTA 475
4)Woofer - yet to decide.
5)Head unit - Pionner 6050

i need to understand that for rear doors, is the above config okay, why most of people suggest JBL GTO series and if JBL is good which model..

is it necessary to have woofer at first stage...if i leave woofer aside will the above config work...My budget is 20-25 k.

I am most confused about rear speakers- the postion and the make....

What about amp -any other 4 channel AMP which can serve the above config better.


Pls guide me..I am completely new to this ICE part....

Thanks in advance

here is my thought on the speakers at the rear!
please dont put them in the rear door!, this will have issues like,
1. more rattling problems!
2. during the rainy season, or whenever it rains, if you happen to lower the windows the rain water getting into the speakers has a higher probability thus ruining the speakers!
3.one needs to be really careful while getting the car water serviced. its usually at these times that the speakers are fouled with and get damaged!

after all buying them is not the big issue, installing them right and maintaining them is the bigger issue, one has to be really careful after having spent so much!

this is something i learnt the hard way!, my blaupunkt components got damaged because of the water wash in my viva and i was forced to spend for another set of components in the car! and hence this suggestion!

although there is no choice for the front speakers, this can be prevented to a larger extent by, installing the front speakers with two spacer rings and from outside!, thus increasing the gap between the glass and the speakers by just more than 3inches, just have a look at my swift's garage for my component's install! and this kind of installs gives very good mids from the speakers!

also installing the rear 6"x9" oval speakers on a plank give you good bass!

well this is a long post though but i think will help all the swift owners!
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Old 20th February 2008, 10:36   #1382
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... this is something i learnt the hard way! ...
Ouch, that's really bad. We commiserate with your travails, @rider60, but surely that cannot be the reason for avoiding rear door installs.

The water-service & rain problems can easily be overcome by simple means. All car manufacturers provide a water / vapor shield to prevent such things from happening. If one is conscious of that and knows the precautions, one doesn't get burnt. Otherwise, it would be a case of the vernacular adage "to eat on the ground if one is afraid of thieves stealing the plates".

It is just that the rear door mounting gives some semblance of a normal stereo image for the rear seat audience. The parcel shelf mount doesn't. On the other hand the ovals, as you said, give better bass - but cannot be mounted on rear doors. Tough choice.
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Old 20th February 2008, 11:01   #1383
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All car manufacturers provide a water / vapor shield to prevent such things from happening. If one is conscious of that and knows the precautions, one doesn't get burnt.
Yes, I was shocked when rider60 mentioned that he did not like mounting speakers in the doors.

Mounting speakers in rear doors is a great idea if someone is buying components for both front and back. The last time I heard a setup with components all around, it sounded much better - the rear co-axials (or ovals) never interfered with the front-stage.
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Old 21st February 2008, 00:44   #1384
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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Ouch, that's really bad. We commiserate with your travails, @rider60, but surely that cannot be the reason for avoiding rear door installs.

The water-service & rain problems can easily be overcome by simple means. All car manufacturers provide a water / vapor shield to prevent such things from happening. If one is conscious of that and knows the precautions, one doesn't get burnt. Otherwise, it would be a case of the vernacular adage "to eat on the ground if one is afraid of thieves stealing the plates".

It is just that the rear door mounting gives some semblance of a normal stereo image for the rear seat audience. The parcel shelf mount doesn't. On the other hand the ovals, as you said, give better bass - but cannot be mounted on rear doors. Tough choice.

can i have a few examples of the water / vapor shield, as i never saw one, and surely swift is not equipped with one afaik. if this is really effective then will surely sell my coaxials and plank and go for a set of components for the rear too!

The rather bad plastic quality of swift at least the door and boot pads are not the best fitting in a few cars, i mean they often create the rattles because they use very less screws and are press type and become loose with time and my 1000kms old car already as boot pad rattle due to some kind of misfit so had to cover the gap using a paper which made the rattle disappear will post pic for better understanding! i personally feel the moulds are not well made either sort feels lacks the finish to a major extent!

and all these reasons have made me decide against the rear door install, i dont want to waste those 4-6grands i spend for the speakers to go down the drain!
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Old 21st February 2008, 10:08   #1385
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can i have a few examples of the water / vapor shield, as i never saw one, and surely swift is not equipped with one afaik. ...
Look at the installation pics in the Sound Off and Show Off thread. In most of them, you will find a few pics with a clear / translucent plastic sheet on the door inside, stuck with a black adhesive. This is supposed to protect the inside of the door pad and speaker from water / vapor - if the speaker is mounted on the door pad. This would have been there in your Swift too.

When installing sound damping, this is usually taken off and replaced with sound damping sheet (see pics of damping installation), which then acts as the barrier.

The front of the speaker is normally protected by the door pad grill which comes with the car. If you use the speaker OE grill, you have to take precautions when giving the car for service (tape a plastic sheet over it).

If you don't feel safe even with the car OE grill, stretch and stick a layer of dupatta cloth behind it.

If you still don't feel safe even with the plastic or butyl sheet behind the speaker, make a shallow cone/bowl of appropriate size with some closed-cell foam and stick it over the rear of the speaker.
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Old 21st February 2008, 10:11   #1386
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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
If you still don't feel safe even with the plastic or butyl sheet behind the speaker, make a shallow cone/bowl of appropriate size with some closed-cell foam and stick it over the rear of the speaker.
or get these...
Foam Speaker Baffles at Crutchfield.com
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Old 21st February 2008, 10:35   #1387
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Originally Posted by nash1980 View Post
Later i found that the GT5 doesnt have a the cross overs and have to be brought seperately??
IS this true? i thought components had the crossover included in the package!
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Old 21st February 2008, 11:53   #1388
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Hi guys, I will be fitting the music system for my new swift tomorrow. I am a lot confused with the rear speakers. Should i fix the rear speakers to the door pads or should i put it up in the boot with a plank??? Which one would be better?
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Old 22nd February 2008, 02:42   #1389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Look at the installation pics in the Sound Off and Show Off thread. In most of them, you will find a few pics with a clear / translucent plastic sheet on the door inside, stuck with a black adhesive. This is supposed to protect the inside of the door pad and speaker from water / vapor - if the speaker is mounted on the door pad. This would have been there in your Swift too.

When installing sound damping, this is usually taken off and replaced with sound damping sheet (see pics of damping installation), which then acts as the barrier.

The front of the speaker is normally protected by the door pad grill which comes with the car. If you use the speaker OE grill, you have to take precautions when giving the car for service (tape a plastic sheet over it).

If you don't feel safe even with the car OE grill, stretch and stick a layer of dupatta cloth behind it.

If you still don't feel safe even with the plastic or butyl sheet behind the speaker, make a shallow cone/bowl of appropriate size with some closed-cell foam and stick it over the rear of the speaker.






now take a closer look at this picture!, you will find the plastic sheet is not beneath the speaker!

and more over when the glass is completely down there is hardly 1/2 inch gap between the speaker's magnet and the glass! its for this reason that i used two spacer rings and mounted the speaker from outside the door pad! giving it more space (like around 3 to 3.5 inches) that will avoid the water spills to a greater extent!

well if you try to cover the speaker from the other side with plastic or closed cell foam there will hardly be any space left for the air to move around which drastically affects the clarity!

well in some components there is facility, you can actually remover the plastic thing that is right at the middle of the cone and mount the tweeter on the same speaker, just like its fixed on a coaxial. this is actually more prone to damage than the one that that have the cone sealed on the front side! in these kind of speakers the risk of damaging is more compared to the ones with sealed cones!

you see these days all the components come with a cone made of fiber or plastic that is spill resistant on the front side atleast!.

the rear side/ magnet's side is still prone to damage due to liquids! as the brown paper inside is usually made of non water proof materials like the cone's fiber/plastic! and this is the one that make the speakers go kaput! most of the times!

and unfortunately we have to place this part in the door where it is prone to damage when installed badly! and in most cases cant be covered!

this is the reason i hate to install the speakers in the door!









now check out the company OE speakers they came with way better protection! and that is what exactly i want to provide for the components i put in! its the final pic!

those are the components from the blaupunkt that were very old by the time i bought them, all though bought it first hand, but it went kaput and i gave it to max motors minister road for repair and the end result is seen in the pics above, they had the coil made locally and thats the reason for me saying the sealed cones are better protected than the ones that are not(remember the coaxial mounting point i explained above). and this made me understand that the brown paper that is beneath the cone paper is even more prone as this is not made of water resistant materials in all speakers and is placed in the pads with out protection! and hence i made these decisions for the further installs.

and even in my viva i checked for water leaks and the new ones survived one rainy season so i am not expecting any problems here on in viva,
but after looking at the plastic quality, finish and the way the places were made in swift it actually made me over cautious and hence all these conclusions and this way of install and the stubbornness to not install the speakers in the pads as far as possible!

and the crutchfield site navinji, that you provided, does help but then where do i get these here in India? more over they will foul with the mid range and will boost the bass that is already taken care off by the sub!

so its like this if one want to really spend for the components then the 3-3.5 inch gap between the glass and the speaker will keep the speaker running for a long time! and the covers from the site navinji suggested is also good protection but will give more bass that will dominate the mid ranges! so i decided the best way was to install them in the way i did with the max protection while not interrupting the mid ranges!

do correct me for mistakes or suggest better things, is there a way where in i can get some thing like navinji suggested and still have the vocals just right for the A.R.RAHMAN/hariharan songs that i usually die for!
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Old 22nd February 2008, 08:10   #1390
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IS this true? i thought components had the crossover included in the package!
Definitely not. Crossovers come bundled with the midbasses and tweeters. It is really funny what these shopkeepers come up with every now and then.

On the other hand, I don't think crossovers are available separately for most brands.
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Old 22nd February 2008, 10:26   #1391
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Budget of 12K for Soft Music :

Head Unit : Pioneer ( 4050 ) Head Unit : 6K

Front Components : You shoudln't Ignore this part of ICE

Illusion Electra 6.1 : arnd 6 - 6.5K ( available for 5.8K at some shop in mumbai )

Ground Zero 6.5" Components : 6K : Nice sounding comps, have heard them at BOOM in mumbai.

MDF tray + Installation : 1K

Thats a total of 13-13.5 K
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Old 22nd February 2008, 11:07   #1392
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the rear side/ magnet's side is still prone to damage due to liquids! as the brown paper inside is usually made of non water proof materials like the cone's fiber/plastic! and this is the one that make the speakers go kaput! most of the times!
Which part of the speaker are you referring to as "brown paper"?
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Old 22nd February 2008, 12:14   #1393
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Which part of the speaker are you referring to as "brown paper"?
I think he was talking about the spider.
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Old 22nd February 2008, 15:11   #1394
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@rider60, the foam protector at the rear, whether a jugaad one or the Crutchfield one, is not going to change the quality of sound from the driver (Navin has them for his rear drivers in his Octavia, and HE would have thrown them into Arabian Sea had he found them changing the sound)

And the OE thing in your photo looks like a mounting arrangement for speakers, and could have been used when the replacement speakers were mounted.
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Old 22nd February 2008, 15:18   #1395
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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
@rider60, the foam protector at the rear, whether a jugaad one or the Crutchfield one, is not going to change the quality of sound from the driver (Navin has them for his rear drivers in his Octavia, and HE would have thrown them into Arabian Sea had he found them changing the sound)
foam protectors in the rear perform a different fuction for those in doors.

foam protectors are acoustically resistive but not opague. Granted the Acoustic resistance drops at very low frequencies but if the foam protector is thick enough (mine are 19mm thick) it helps.

so the foam protectors in the rear are actually preventing the subwoofer from "dopplering" the midbass. foam proectors in the door can be made from thnner foam (just make sure you use UV treated open cell foam). XTC makes theirs out of compressed UV treated foam and their has a longer life that what I use. I change my foam protectors every year or 2 before there are signs of deteroiration.
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