Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > In-Car Entertainment


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10th September 2006, 22:08   #691
BHPian
 
Autophile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 930
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

B&T,

I am not saying there are only two kinds of companies. But yes on broader scenario there are companies who are into business with passion and business in mind and there are some who are purely for business and making money. Passion is dying now and companies are being sold everyday to big groups who are strong at business and marketing hence the original brand and its products starts losing their identity as it is on mercy of so called marketing brand. There are so many examples i can give here, some of them being a/d/s, polk, kicker, mtx, xtant, orion, precision power, illusion etc. etc. You can see very well what happened to all these companies after being taken over by big groups.

I never said that approaching cheaper manufacturers and outsourcing production is bad or wrong but the end product should be good for what customer is paying. You are right that companies can't survive on high end products alone.

But just think about how many high end speakers are available for car. Most of them are manufactured by companies who have history in loudspeaker design and manufacturing like Scan Speak, Dynaudio, Focal, Morel etc. Other high end companies just buy drivers or get them "customised" according to their specs and sell them by stamping their logo on it like Genesis, Alpine, Rainbow etc. And all these high end driver / speaker manufacturing companies have engineers who are on payroll and are well versed with companies design philiosphy and none of them have their manufacturing facility in far east. Because its a cost no object product and they can afford to give salaries to engineers and production facility in europe.

You are familiar with home audio can you think of the following examples of manufacturer without the respective strong tech minds and engineers whos philosophy and design flows in every product of the manufacturer.

JBL - Dr. Floyd Tool
Tannoy - Alex Garner / Dr. Paul Mills
Wilson Audio - Dave Wilson
ATC - Billy Woodman

The day these guys will leave the product will change and loose its identity. So it is upto a company's decision what they want to do and which way they want to take. Thats what happens with the products of the companies who hire engineers on contract to design the new ranges. There is nothing wrong with it as consumer don't have access to A/B couple of speakers in the same environment it surely is a good money making formula.

I don't have any idea of what Boss is doing as it is a bottom rung product and never followed the brand. I don't think any boss speaker is manufactured using good production techniques and materials that anyone can tell by looking at the product. I don't think that boss's contract engineers design crossover by listening tests, maybe you have a better idea because the genre of consumer it caters to does give a **** about the components. And even if they does they cannot tell the difference in sound with the change of crossover component.

So you are comparing two totally different league of products. Its like comparing Maruti 800 to a Bentley. Do you think that it is a valid comparison. Two wheels of bentley costs more than a 800.

Similary a few crossover components of high end car audio speaker costs more than Boss's reference component set. For example in our AZ comp range we have crossover components where we have air core inductors costs till Rs 2200 and Mineral Oil filled caps upto Rs. 12500. I think thats the price range of speaker which Boss manufactures.

Last edited by Autophile : 10th September 2006 at 22:16.
Autophile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th September 2006, 22:38   #692
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: India
Posts: 4,346
Thanked: 16 Times
Default

A very nice explanation! Thumbs up to Autophile A.K.A JB for that.
It answered many questions and doubts.
Isn't it B&T?
That 800-Bentley part was very good. Yes, I've no idea what Boss was doing in this discussion. Now it's put to the right place, Me thinks!
speedzak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th September 2006, 00:32   #693
Senior - BHPian
 
kb100's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bangy Boy!
Posts: 1,554
Thanked: 14 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble
I am dead sure I cant tell someone that I will install xyz in your car, and it will blow away everything that you have heard or will hear in your life. I am sure about that. I'm sorry I had to quote you as the example. Apologies.

And it makes me feel very happy for Kb.
B&T... Buddy.... I did clearly mention that DLS was indeed more popular all over... that my decision was based on a few reasons - I had even mentioned my penchant for dark horses..

I reproduce my original post here...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kb100
Cant wait to get them singing... Forums all over are slowly taking about the Hertz range of speakers.. They are slowly being spoken about as "Gaint Killers" for giving awesome performance at half the price as some of the more popular but expensive components. I had an opportunity to hear the ESK's in another T-Bhp forummers car and personaly felt that they were leagues ahead of similarly priced components that I had heard !

I was also leaning the DLS Iridium way - LBM had very nice things to say about it.. and we found a sounce with a killer price in Dubai .... but I have been challenged that these will beat the pants off the Iridiums!.. so I am really looking forward to that contest! -

PS: No disrespect to anyone or any brand - all I want is best possible bang for my buck!

I very clearly mentioned that my decision was based on what I read at the FORUMS ABROAD ... No-where I have even alluded that GUnbir or JB are the source of that info! In fact anticipating problems I had in fact even added the postscript/disclaimer..

I had infact decided on the CDT Audio's Eurosport series - which is where - after spending hours getting to know my taste, and them knowing the products (including DLS) and their own installation abilities - Gubir and JB said I would be happier with the Hertz 3 ways..... so I went ahead and purchased them at 29000/-.. now - but naturally, I want them to perform better than DLS and everything else at that price and beyond!!! ... towards that if we can be objective and get into an objective pro/con excercise, then that can help!

I like nice tight kick like a mule mid bass with rich lush vocals - the kind gives vocals so rich that make ones hair stand on end - and an absolutly mellow smooth tweet... Now with this in mind, .. how would you compare the DLS Iridium 6.2 and the Illusion Carbon 6 set ?? (I beg your pardon in advance - I dont know if I am getting the genre's mixed up)

Last edited by kb100 : 11th September 2006 at 00:40.
kb100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th September 2006, 00:46   #694
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Faridabad
Posts: 6,814
Thanked: 294 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kb100
. how would you compare the DLS Iridium 6.2 and the Illusion Carbon 6 set ?? (I beg your pardon in advance - I dont know if I am getting the genre's mixed up)
I would to say here done a blind test I think no one tell which one is running ......

If some one challege this we would easily see the verdict in the next meet......
low_bass_makker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th September 2006, 01:11   #695
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: India
Posts: 4,346
Thanked: 16 Times
Default

So, there's another MEAT happening soon?


BTW, we're still waiting for what B&T has to say about Autophile's post.
speedzak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th September 2006, 13:43   #696
Team-BHP Support
 
navin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: mumbai
Posts: 22,500
Thanked: 3,879 Times
Default

Geez. I had closed this thread before because even by the lax standards of ICE it had gone terribly off topic.

After reading everything that has transpired over the past 24 hours I will say the FINAL words. I mean FINAL. After what I have to say here I DO NOT want any talk of anything other than KB's DB here! OK!

1. Subcontracting is not bad. Some companies do it others dont. Thsoe that do have to invest in a lot of QC becuase as I have found personally that if one does not CONTINOUSLY monitor your suppliers you will quickly breed complacency and hence get a poor porduct that will kill your image very fast.

2. Many companies like Tymphany subcontract their lower end large volume stuff to China and manufacture their higher end low volume stuff locally (in this case Taastrup/Vidabaek). There is a many fold reason for this. (a) QC has fixed costs and become viable only in large volumes. Tymphany has their own facilities but still trusts QC only to those trained at Videbaek. Other companies follow similar methods. (b) China likes large volumes. China (unlike India) will not easily accept small volume produciton orders. (c) It is only the low cost products that need to be made in China, the higher cost products can be proftiable made locally (d) R&D happens top down. By that I mean most R&D happens in the higher product lines with technological breaktroughs trickling down to the lesser products usually only when the market demands it, it is easier to build these high end "R&Ded" products locally so one can constantly tinker with the designs till they are perfect and to keep the techniques used a secret.

3. As far as comparing one product to another ICE unfortunately is subjective. One can certainly say that a Ferarri 355 is faster than a Maruti 800 or even the differences between a Ferarri 355 and 349 can be listed objectively but this is not so easily possible in audio. Opinion differs. Opinion is why forums like this exist but opinions still should not matter. Readers are advised to take all opinion with a tablespoon of salt and use their own expereinces to make final decisions. And lastly Opinions should be stated so that it does not affect the sensabilities of others.

4. As a rule TBHP cannot allow any Professional to voice views on the products he/she represents. I trust Sam, B&T, Gunbir and Autophile but the rules apply to everyone so unless someone who is not in ANY way affiliated to any brands posts a comparision it would not conform to TBHP's rules.
navin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th September 2006, 14:01   #697
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 2,462
Thanked: 20 Times
Default

Navinji, Thank you for a fitting closure.

KB, Zak, others.. I hope now you understand why I refused to get into a comparison.

Let us move back to KBs dB! KB, when are you gonna tell your wifey about the install. I mean, is your Bangalore trip going to be a "business trip"?

Also, more importantly, what have you decided about lighting.

Last edited by gunbir : 11th September 2006 at 14:02.
gunbir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th September 2006, 14:15   #698
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: India
Posts: 4,346
Thanked: 16 Times
Smile

A big thanks, Navinji! That was a good thing you did.
I always wanted to keep this thread inside KB's DB. And I tried to pour water many a times when the fire was just being lit up. But it just burned!!
And I would like to say it was very informative fire though!

KB is still lighting up. I would suggest him to buy some LED spots which he can focus on to the Amp(s), Logos etc.. And it wont produce much bright light to bath the whole setup.

BTW, what's your take on lighting up ICE, Gunman???
speedzak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th September 2006, 14:30   #699
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 2,462
Thanked: 20 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedzak
BTW, what's your take on lighting up, Gunman???
I'm absolutely fine with it... in fact a few of my friends light up all the time. They just get very funny afterwards thats all...

But seriously, I think it being an SQ install, KB shouldnt go overboard with the lighting. I think you're right, a few LEDs positioned well should do the job. Else, if KB insists on spending money , he can go for a single 24" neon tube installed under the parcel shelf... illuminating downwards.

Last edited by gunbir : 11th September 2006 at 14:32.
gunbir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th September 2006, 14:41   #700
Senior - BHPian
 
Bass&Trouble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Bombay
Posts: 2,744
Thanked: 71 Times
Default

Navin, firstly I'm sorry to have to post again about something that you may regard as quite irrelevant to kb ka db. But there seems to be some prodding in this regard, and please let me complete this gracefully to clear any misunderstanding about my intentions. I hope I have your kind permission.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kb100
B&T... Buddy.... I did clearly mention that DLS was indeed more popular all over... that my decision was based on a few reasons - I had even mentioned my penchant for dark horses..
Sir, in no way was this intended to mean that you have made a wrong or uncalculated choice. It isn't about popularity or otherwise. I am just saying that I find DLS Iridiums of a high standing, with no comparison to any alternate product whatever.

I don't regard Hertz as a dark horse either. And it's incorrect to label it that. It's just a newer company.

It would be very stupid of me to sit down and enlist the pros and cons of one speaker set over the other based on physical charachteristics. I have heard the Iridiums. They (Iridiums) are rightly placed around the $1000 price bracket. And I would buy it at Rs. 25000/- if I wasn't so deeply into a different range of products (which I get for free, so no one can beat that kind of value for money, right? ). But I would never buy Iridiums at the Indian retail price of 80-90k whatever. Not over Sam's dead body. It's not worth that kind of money.

I have no shame in admitting that the 3-way Iridium will beat the Illusion Audio Carbon Series 6.1 component set on many fronts. At the same time, I think I could use 8", 5" and 1" Carbon series drivers to match the performance of the Iridium (or better it) in an active setup. Again, I haven't tried it, but I would think so based on my experience with the drivers. But, that config would cost far more than Rs. 25000/-.

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedzak
That 800-Bentley part was very good. Yes, I've no idea what Boss was doing in this discussion. Now it's put to the right place, Me thinks!
If you read carefully, it wasn't a Boss vs Anything comparison. It was just that, like Bentley would follow a basic design process of, say for example, ensuring that the car is rolling out with the right alignment of the wheels, a Maruti 800 which costs a hundredth of the Bentley would also do this. It's not hi-tech or passion driven. It's just a simple process. It doesn't make the 800 superior to the Bentely or anything, and I didn't even say anything that would imply that. I still say that Boss makes speakers that are so retarded, I'm scared about the fact that the designers freely roam the streets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Autophile
I am not saying there are only two kinds of companies. But yes on broader scenario there are companies who are into business with passion and business in mind and there are some who are purely for business and making money. Passion is dying now and companies are being sold everyday to big groups who are strong at business and marketing hence the original brand and its products starts losing their identity as it is on mercy of so called marketing brand. There are so many examples i can give here, some of them being a/d/s, polk, kicker, mtx, xtant, orion, precision power, illusion etc. etc. You can see very well what happened to all these companies after being taken over by big groups.
I understand that. You just named two, so I was broadening the picture. Nothing more to it.

You forgot Rockford Fosgate in the list up there. I am extremely saddened by the turn of events with them since the beginning of the new millenium. Illusion Audio did not succumb to marketing pressures or an acquisition, they were poorly managed from the outset.
Bass&Trouble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th September 2006, 14:52   #701
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: India
Posts: 4,346
Thanked: 16 Times
Default

I'll completely ignore that B&T, after reading Navinji's post. If it was posted yesterday, then... hmmmm!
Let's close the subject!

Gunbir!
24" Neons! Holy!! That sounds very exciting like the Tru amp he has!

I've heard that LEDs very close to the amps, wiring etc.. can cause noise in the ICE circuit. Anything true in it??

Last edited by speedzak : 11th September 2006 at 15:11.
speedzak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th September 2006, 15:43   #702
Senior - BHPian
 
kb100's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bangy Boy!
Posts: 1,554
Thanked: 14 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunbir
Let us move back to KBs dB! KB, when are you gonna tell your wifey about the install. I mean, is your Bangalore trip going to be a "business trip"?

Also, more importantly, what have you decided about lighting.
Great to be back on track!...

My wifey has been told the truth!... her sister picked up the HU remember.. however what she does not know is what is going into it and how much that costs! ... I am seriously uninsurable for the next one month! ... but wives - like parents - always know!! **brrrrrrr**

I did post my views on lighting but dont think anyone read it - Post # 688... I mentioned that I think a few LED's may be the way forward... hooked to the boot-switch so that it comes on ONLY when the boot is open! ... and perhaps a neon wire to outline the subs perhaps... suggestions are welcome!

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedzak
I've heard that LEDs very close to the amps, wiring etc.. can cause noise in the ICE circuit. Anything true in it??
Is this true??.. but then most demo installs are generally lit up like a Christmas Tree!

Last edited by kb100 : 11th September 2006 at 15:51.
kb100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th September 2006, 15:49   #703
Distinguished - BHPian
 
jkdas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Thiruvananthapu
Posts: 9,661
Thanked: 1,389 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kb100
Great to be back on track!...
I did post my views on lighting but dont think anyone read it - Post # 688... I mentioned that I think a few LED's may be the way forward... hooked to the boot-switch so that it comes on ONLY when the boot is open! ... and perhaps a neon wire to outline the subs perhaps... suggestions are welcome!
action! lights! "now imagine kb opening boot; which u can c enveloped in blue color"

kb, check out zak's garage. and why not neons around frm compos and subs? and amps?
jkdas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th September 2006, 16:13   #704
Senior - BHPian
 
kb100's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bangy Boy!
Posts: 1,554
Thanked: 14 Times
Default

Oh and Thank you B&T ... you had me worried - I though perhpas I might have given the wrong impression!

Anyways any suggestions on the lighting?

Last edited by kb100 : 11th September 2006 at 16:14.
kb100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th September 2006, 16:28   #705
Senior - BHPian
 
Bass&Trouble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Bombay
Posts: 2,744
Thanked: 71 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kb100
Oh and Thank you B&T ... you had me worried - I though perhpas I might have given the wrong impression!

Anyways any suggestions on the lighting?
Let me pray I don't cause a controversy with lighting. (I have a friend who thinks the generic term for all light emitting sources is lightning, but that's a different story.)

If you want to spend a packet, it'd have to be Streetglow. Really neat. Very pricey here. If you can get some kits from abroad nothing like it. I like the prices at which LBM has been getting stuff. Maybe he could do the subcontractor-giri for you. Neon strings look damn cool, and they don't consume too much power.

Otherwise, you could have a part plexiglass enclosure with the logos (or your wife's name ... if you are going to surprise her let it be a pleasant one I thought) etched, with neons on the inside, and inside walls mirrored. I do this for some installs. It gives the impression of twice the subs if implemented nicely. Otherwise it feels like a dance bar. I reckon you blokes down south call it 'live band'.

Otherwise, it'll just have to be the boring and challengeless neon tube dangled upside down from under the parcel tray.

Don't worry about the neons. They stay cool, and don't affect sound much unless you spring some really close to the gear. Otherwise they're less obtrusive than the cables that carry power to your brake/ tail lamps. Don't use high wattage filament bulbs in proximity to the equipment though.
Bass&Trouble is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
"Cayenne" we "XC-eed" in our "Endeavour" to "Safari"? Taking powerful metal off-road SS-Traveller 4x4 Excursions 55 10th November 2016 22:56
8" and 10" subs available in the market? Invinsible In-Car Entertainment 19 25th November 2009 23:53
Which one: Dual 8" sub V/s Single 10" sub? Invinsible In-Car Entertainment 53 28th May 2009 13:33
12" Subs for Sale blueraven316 Shifting gears 20 7th February 2007 16:49
10" Vs 12" Subs harmon_bro In-Car Entertainment 9 29th May 2006 11:55


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 10:17.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks