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Old 5th June 2006, 11:55   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by low_bass_makker
Ok people let see this from a diff angle. Or make it a new Question.

If we have two subs in car they must be in a boot thats for sure and kept in left and right side extreme position. Now we will play only one sub no mono or stereo just one sub and ask some to sit in the front seat and ask him will he able to make out which one is playing left or right??????????????
I think if you limit the sound strictly below 80-100Hz mark, then we should not be able to make out. But you need an accurate crossover frequency control for sub channel in your amp in the first place, otherwise it will have higher frequency components which may mislead you to think you are able to locate it... Also in spite of this, there could be higher freq. components created due to any other reason which results in harmonic distortion... may be acoustics of the boot or cabin? May be Tool can through some light...
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Old 5th June 2006, 11:58   #92
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There are lot of instruments which cover the wide spectrum of audio frequencies like Piano from 30Hz to 3-6KHz. Also a lot of instruments decay can cover large frequency band.

So in the recording, is the piano recorded mono in bass notes and stereo in midrange?

In that case High End home audio should only have expensive sub sat systems rather than big full range floorstanders with 12-15" Bass Drivers if the bass is recorded mono every where.

Today the scenarion in the recording studios is has changed. Recording engineers are preferring smaller monitors over the bigger ones (so in order to have the full bandwidth they use subwoofers).

There are very few serious recording engineers who use bigger monitors for mastering from brands like Westlake Audio, ATC, PMC, Tannoy (DMT's). With most others you will find smaller monitors by Genelac, Mackie etc.

Listen to the work of Bernie Grundman, Bob Ludwig (Gateway Mastering) etc you will see they are in different league. In these level of studios analog mastering and recording equipment and legendary big monitors still lives.

AR Rahmans music sounds open and detailed, all because of the level of equipment he is using (literally unmatched in India). Extensive custom mixer, custom main monitors designed by George Massenburg (Massenburg Labs) and analog equipment by Manley Labs etc. Not forgetting his talent, creativity and expertise which is captured on the disk through all these equipment.

Tool correct me if I am wrong.
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Old 5th June 2006, 12:11   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by santosh.s
Also in spite of this, there could be higher freq. components created due to any other reason which results in harmonic distortion... may be acoustics of the boot or cabin?
As an example, rear tray in your car may vibrate due to the subwoofer and create distortion... much like window panes in houses sometimes make noise due to roaring aeroplanes or lightning thunder, and this extra sound spectrum definitely spreads beyond 100Hz. So you may be able to tell which side is rattling rather than which sub is playing
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Old 5th June 2006, 12:18   #94
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Originally Posted by navin

Why 40Hz. 42Hz is the Low E on a bass guitar. I find it easy to localise bass down to this freqency. Below this locallization becomes increasingly diffcult till at about 20Hz tests showed on a 50% chance of localizing bass correctly.
When you are saying Low E is 42Hz, that makes sense only if it is a sine wave. In practice no instrument produce pure sine waves, they produce a spectrum of frequencis. As per my knowledge, flute is the instrument which comes close to producing sine waves. Is that the case with guitars also?? I guess not.
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Old 5th June 2006, 18:11   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by santosh.s
I think if you limit the sound strictly below 80-100Hz mark, then we should not be able to make out. But you need an accurate crossover frequency control for sub channel in your amp in the first place, otherwise it will have higher frequency components which may mislead you to think you are able to locate it... Also in spite of this, there could be higher freq. components created due to any other reason which results in harmonic distortion... may be acoustics of the boot or cabin? May be Tool can through some light...
I think in a car the sub are made to play below 100 hz with a slope of 12db or 24 db. which make the freq not go above 100 hz. So I am again going to say that one can judge with sub is playing ??????????? left one or the right one.................







Quote:
Originally Posted by low_bass_makker
I can say earlier I had woodstock speakers at home they had one tweeter one midrange and a 12 inch woofer. I have placed them far apart like in the corner of the room for the best stereo imaging. In this type of setup the bass is in stereo format.and the listener can clearly make out from which channel the sound is coming. But again in car the bass imaging cannot be judge so no use of it there......
Autophile as u said in your last post the good recording studio big drivers are used so that sound can be enjoyed to the max ,I surely agree u on this. But we are talking car audio here not home or studio.



As I have commented earlier if there is big sepration between the subs then there is point of have stereo bass setup. But when the subs just a feet apart I dont think any one can be able to judge the diff if any stereo bass musical beat. Was it from the left sub or the right sub.

Also In a musical tracks the sound engineer must be knowing that the bass is omni- directional so he must not be panning it through the subs to give the listerner the pleasure of bass moving though the left or right channel. It is the mids and high which are used to create the sound stage.



Here is small diagram ->


left woofer right woofer


the smiley moving in between is the bass...... in stereo...................
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Old 5th June 2006, 18:14   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by low_bass_makker
Here is small diagram ->


left woofer right woofer


the smiley moving in between is the bass...... in stereo...................
Beta, tum abhi tak school gaye nahin kya?
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Old 5th June 2006, 18:22   #97
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Sir this was my first leason. Panning of bass in sub

left to right and right to left
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Old 5th June 2006, 18:26   #98
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LBM,

I don't think you understand the concept of slope in a crossover.

B&T bolo yaar isko kaunse school bhejna hai???
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Old 5th June 2006, 18:28   #99
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Sir ji second lesson . slope of crossover.................

Who will teach me fast fast..............

I have some course material also

The slope ->inclination of attenuation of filter characteristics

Slope

Adjusting the HPF/LPF slope (filter attenuation
slope) lets you adjust the continuity of sound
between speaker units.
! The slope indicates the number of decibels
(dB) the signal is attenuated when the frequency
is one octave higher (lower) (Unit:
dB/oct.). The steeper the slope, the more
the signal is attenuated.




Last edited by low_bass_makker : 5th June 2006 at 18:38.
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Old 5th June 2006, 18:36   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by low_bass_makker
Sir ji second lesson . slope of crossover.................

Who will teach me fast fast..............
Let's hear it from you first....what's your exact concept of crossover slope? Be more descriptive than you were earlier. It should make for some very interesting reading.

I'll give you an example also. In your car you have two subs, you are cutting them at a certain frequency. Maybe it's 80 Hz. What do you think exactly happens? Do you know what slope your crossover is employing?

Actually, don't go to school. As it is, there are precious few good ones left.
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Old 5th June 2006, 18:38   #101
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Yes I would also like to hear this from LBM.

Last edited by Autophile : 5th June 2006 at 18:40.
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Old 5th June 2006, 18:45   #102
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LBM what you explained in your post 99 was little too technical for me, can you please explain it to me in simpler words. The way it is done in school.

DETECTED !!!!!

IP Address : xxx . xxx . xxx . xxx originating from Faridabad has initiated google search for "Crossover Slopes".

Last edited by Autophile : 5th June 2006 at 18:49.
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Old 5th June 2006, 18:46   #103
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***chin cradled in cupped palms waiting to read the explanation*** smiley!!
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Old 5th June 2006, 18:48   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Autophile
DETECTED !!!!!

IP Address : xxx . xxx . xxx . xxx originating from Faridabad has initiated google search for "Crossover Slopes".
LOL... JB... You should let your sense of humour show more man!!
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Old 5th June 2006, 18:52   #105
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I said I had course matrial ........

Please sir start ur lesson fast I am waiting for a less technical...... version.

Hope everbody else u will benifit from it greatly..................
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