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Old 2nd June 2006, 19:00   #1
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Talking 2 Subs - Dual Mono or Stereo - "Kb ka dB"

Hey Gurus..

Can twin subs be used in a STEREO setup? (One sub each channel)... Or is a DUAL MONO arrangement better?

In both cases using independant completely sealed boxes.

Pro's and Con's please!

Last edited by kb100 : 2nd June 2006 at 19:02.
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Old 2nd June 2006, 19:12   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kb100
Hey Gurus..

Can twin subs be used in a STEREO setup? (One sub each channel)... Or is a DUAL MONO arrangement better?

In both cases using independant completely sealed boxes.

Pro's and Con's please!
Nice one, I'm going in last. Let's hear from the Gurus (and Maharajs) first!
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Old 2nd June 2006, 19:15   #3
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Both ways are good. All depends on the amplifier power output in stereo / bridged and also the final impedance subs present to the amplifier.

You cannot put 2 ohm final impedance on bridged channels of amplifier. There are very few amplifiers which are stable in 2ohms in bridged mode. So in this case go for stereo 4 ohms/ 2ohms.
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Old 2nd June 2006, 19:36   #4
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@ kb100; What you meant was, get a mono out from left channel and give to one sub and similarly for the other? Very interesting idea.
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Old 2nd June 2006, 19:57   #5
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Yes JK... One Sub per Channel.. And the idea is not mine..!!

My worry JB is I dont know if Bass is recorded in Stereo or Mono... I was worried that with stereo Sub it may boom all over the place and be difficult to sync esp with elec music I'm told

Last edited by kb100 : 2nd June 2006 at 20:09.
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Old 2nd June 2006, 20:06   #6
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Is it true that Stereo gives better effect then Mono ?
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Old 2nd June 2006, 20:40   #7
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In a stereo setup if in a track there are drum beats in the left channel the sound will come in the left sub only. And the output will be reduced because only one sub is working. But if it was a mono output the drum beats would have came out of both subs. and the sound level would have been more.

Also if there is a stereo setup the imaging of the bass cannot be judge by the Listener because of the sound waves are in feet so he cannot aim them from where they are comming. ( In a car boot if there are two identical woofers are there , and one is playing one cannot tell which one is playing)

One more thing in a home theater there is normally one sub, so both the left and the right channel are present there.

So from my personal point of view the mono setup is much better than the sub stereo setup in CAR. But in home it can be different....
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Old 2nd June 2006, 21:07   #8
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hmmm... that integration bit has had me thinking too.... but maybe there is an answer,,,...
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Old 2nd June 2006, 22:54   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kb100
but maybe there is an answer,,,...
Answer to what ?????????????????
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Old 2nd June 2006, 23:45   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkdas
@ kb100; What you meant was, get a mono out from left channel and give to one sub and similarly for the other? Very interesting idea.
Actually no. A dual mono would be L+R in each channel. Both channels equal input at all times.
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Old 2nd June 2006, 23:50   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by low_bass_makker

Also if there is a stereo setup the imaging of the bass cannot be judge by the Listener because of the sound waves are in feet so he cannot aim them from where they are comming. ( In a car boot if there are two identical woofers are there , and one is playing one cannot tell which one is playing)
.
Wha...huh???

LBM, the very idea of a subwoofer is to de-localize bass. If you can "aim" from where the bass is coming, the entire setup is wrong. As simple as that.
Where i do agree is, because of the fact that the bass coming from the subwoofers cannot actually be localized/placed, then the concept of stereo subs is in itself a paradox.
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Old 3rd June 2006, 00:28   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi
If you can "aim" from where the bass is coming, the entire setup is wrong. As simple as that.
ok report this is actually what i was trying to say that we dont need stereo sub ..................
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Old 3rd June 2006, 00:38   #13
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KB100... well you already know what I think but here goes again...

a. Bass is recorded in stereo. Bass levels, information, etc differ in both channels. While the origin may be a single instrument (say a bass guitar), the studio engineer creates a stereo image by arranging the different instruments across the soundstage. So bass is different in both channels.

b. A Summed L+R outout wil be louder. LBM is right about this. BUT... If you want complete fidelity to the source i.e. the CD, you will want the L and R separate. Though the L+R mono WILL BE LOUDER. So for a hardcore SQ install, go stereo. But for most general and SPL applications, a summed, louder signal is more desirable (to most people).

c. Why Stereo? Simple. Cuz if you have good ears (thats a big IF), you can definitely hear it. With a good SQ sub, you CAN hear the left and right subs separately. Now now, dont jump on me and say, Gunbir, you're talking outa your a$$, sub bass is omni directional and subs shouldnt be localised or locatable. BUT, your honour, it is my opinion that the sub bass should manifest itself as part of the front soundstage and thus be perfectly integrated into the image. So.... the Left sub should play its part in the left part of your soundstage and the right sub in the right part of your soundstage. Resulting in more musical bass, better imaging of bass upfront. I can gladly demonstrate this....

STEREO SEPARATION guys... theres a reason for it. Else we would all be listening to mono and stereo wouldnt have been invented.

Again, let me repeat this. Better SQ performance and imaging aside, a summed mono scenario will be generally louder. So if one is strapped for power, by all means a summed mono setup is fine. But if I have to do an all out SQ setup with two subs, I WILL go stereo.

The maharajas, gurus and the praja may not agree with me... but thats fine. This is just my opinion, and you know what they say about opinions ...

BTW, I wouldnt do even a single sub in my home stereo setup.

Cheers.

Last edited by gunbir : 3rd June 2006 at 00:43.
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Old 3rd June 2006, 01:01   #14
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Gunbir

In a car install the sub of size like 10 or 12 inch cannot be installed in the front or the door. so they go in the back. But the 8 inchs can be installed in the front or the doors but then they dont go low enough to produce bass which 12 inches can produce.

If the sub is in the boot then do we need a stereo setup ?
Will one be able to identify which sub is playing in the boot left or right?
Even If it a hardcore setup...........
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Old 3rd June 2006, 01:33   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by low_bass_makker
Gunbir

In a car install the sub of size like 10 or 12 inch cannot be installed in the front or the door. so they go in the back. But the 8 inchs can be installed in the front or the doors but then they dont go low enough to produce bass which 12 inches can produce.

If the sub is in the boot then do we need a stereo setup ?
Will one be able to identify which sub is playing in the boot left or right?
Even If it a hardcore setup...........
LBM... Yes, you cant normally fit a large sub in the front. Thats why upfront bass is so sought after. But thats not what I meant...

I was talking about subs in the boot. To bring them up front (sonically that is) use time alignment. Done properly your sub bass should sound like its coming from the front stage, i.e. from your front woofers/midnbass.

So if you had a drummer in the left channel and a bass guitar in the right. Your left and right tweeters will represent the upper frequencies of these musical instruments, left on left, right on right. Similarly, the midrange / midbass would do their part in representing their mid frequencies, separated in each channel. But your subs would play a combined signal which would have a 'blurred' result on your soundstage. A stereo sub setup will be better, as your left sub will ideally integrate with your left front soundstage and your right sub into your right soundstage. Eventually, you will have a clearer soundstage, with better separation in the sub bass area as well.

Some times, I hear a clearly focussed front soundstage. Clear highs, great wide sounstage, centered vocals, great, clear midbass... but when you turn on the subs, everything falls apart...

I honestly think subs are one of the most difficult things to get right in a car.... this is assuming you already have 'the right sub' and 'the right amp'. Sub bass is also the most easily overlooked, underestimated and misunderstood part of car audio. Loud isnt everything. Tonality, control, agility, linearity, are all very crucial aspects of sub bass.

Unfortunately, most people are easily satisfied (and amused) by Loud. 9 out of 10 times, people will call a louder sub the better sub. Sad, but true.

Lastly, you can appreciate these things with real music, which has real artists, real musicians and real instruments. With due respect, 50 Cent is not what I call music. Dont get me wrong, I grew up on Eric B & Rakim, NWA, Sugarhill gang... then, Ice Cube, Dr Dre, A tribe called quest, NBN, B.I.G. etc etc. Hell I even listened to Kriss Kross. Right now I'm getting my thrills from Mobb Deep's new album out, Blood Money. Nice.

So while I enjoy hip hop, Its not what I call real music. To really appreciate high end audio equipment, one must explore real music. AND to really appreciate (as in hear ALL of it) real music, one must invest in high end audio. Some of my favourite CDs are 'Unplugged' performances. Thats a good place to start appreciation for real music. There are hundreds of other genres and thousands of talented artists, musicians out there. Explore...

Last edited by gunbir : 3rd June 2006 at 01:48.
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