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Old 28th July 2013, 21:08   #1
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Default Tizen Opensource IVI - Replacement of present In-car music systems

Samsung, Intel along with other stakeholders pursuing a very ambitious project of building a platform Tizen which can have many profiles and one of them will be "IVI Profile". Until now IVI was almost off the radar of OpenSource project and all top car manufacturers pursuing IVI themselves for their cars.
For penetrating Tizen deeply the Tizen consortium recently announced a application contest with prizes ranging more than US$4 million.

It is time of OpenSource and Tizen IVI being tested host of devices based on Intel and other platforms. So, members here at Team-BHP pursuing CarPC or Carputer with Centrafuse etc. along with adding lots of bits and pieces of Software & Hardware to make one. Wouldn't this be an easy replaceable solution for enthusiasts.

Well, not only for enthusiasts any some technical person can buy tested hardware and install tested image of "Tizen IVI", make connections and then he is ready to go with full fledged "In Vehicle Infotainment".

Tizen IVI is still in development stage and not any real product has come but as it is going, soon some high end OEM will take it customize it and put it in their car. It will must save loads of money they spend on developing their IVI. Only requirement for them is customization. Whereas low end OEM manufacturer will take it as it is as released by Tizen.

It will be as simple as Micromax producing Android phones along with Samsung. The difference is Micromax mostly not customizing Android and after porting to their hardware they do mass production. Where as Samsung customizes Android a lot for their phones along with adding Samsung specific features.

Tizen IVI promising many features like Multidisplay, OBD Connection, Wifi, BT etc. Also, it has been tested on hosts of Intel Platform described in this page https://wiki.tizen.org/wiki/IVI/IVI_Platforms includes Intel SandyBridge, Atom Processor, ARM, IA32 etc.

While browsing through vendors listed in above page I found one product in this link http://www.nexcom.com/Products/mobil...ter-vtc-7120-b. It is perfect hardware choice of building Carputer after buying this hardware locally in India. I saw somewhere in nexcomm page that they have sales office in India as well.

I can't say how industry outlook will be going forward for this IVI platform but it is one of the perfect choice for enthusiast like us to do experiments for our cars and build our very own In Vehicle Infotainment system. If it goes well then it will be more cost effective to have IVI in car than mere music players.

Last edited by anujmishra : 28th July 2013 at 21:14.
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Old 30th July 2013, 20:53   #2
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Default re: Tizen Opensource IVI - Replacement of present In-car music systems

Thanks for sharing, Anuj.
I'm interested in this. I can only imagine the potential power of this concept.
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Old 31st July 2013, 12:02   #3
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Default re: Tizen Opensource IVI - Replacement of present In-car music systems

Not being cynical about it, but I would be pleasantly surprised if anything worthwhile comes out of it.

* The issue is not of "Features", but what the participants bring to the creative effort, and what they expect to take out of it. Misplaced priorities and expectations are the perpetual bug-bear of such efforts. In most cases (and that includes efforts within MS) they capitalize on fund allocation with the promise of creating "world-beating products". Withing a couple of years (or whenever the fund allocation runs out), the movement to create such "world-beating products" usually gets relegated to the back-burner, and the erstwhile participants slink away and migrate to greener pastures!!!

* Neither Samsung nor Intel have any presence in in-vehicle infotainment space, nor any substantial understanding of what is required

* Theoretical projection of 'customer needs' is quite different from practical usability. Ditto for 'interfaces' - "Multidisplay, OBD Connection, Wifi, BT" are interfaces and not features. "Features" are what one implements communicating over these interfaces. "Features" are already practically implemented in what is available off-the-shelf in the market today. Samsung / Intel are most welcome to reinvent the wheel for their own purpose - increase in Sales of their hardware!

* There have been numerous similar attempts by individual companies and collaborations, e.g. Intel Moblin, Nokia Maemo, Intel-Nokia MeeGo. All of them came to a nought due to lack of feel for what consumers want. They were all driven by theoretical projections of "consumer needs" - and surprisingly none of the previous attempts were able to replicate features available in the market at that time!!!

* The worst in all efforts was to assume that OS plays a central role, and then concentrating on making an OS light and robust enough to be used in an automobile. In the process they all forgot to create an elegant usable interface and an ecosystem around a framework. Probably CentraFuse has earned more money with a practically usable product on Windows than all the hardware Titans! Different matter that they bet on the wrong horse (Windows). The inappropriateness of that platform in an automobile is stuff of legends, if one has to go by the jokes

Reminds me of a line from an old western movie: "If you want to shoot, you shoot. Don't talk!"

Last edited by DerAlte : 31st July 2013 at 12:04.
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Old 2nd August 2013, 13:19   #4
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Default re: Tizen Opensource IVI - Replacement of present In-car music systems

Tizen is another OS forked from Android, with a specific set of custom API's on the top for developing the UI apps. From a developer point of view, any app written for android (ideally) should run on Tizen. IMO, Samsung just wants to create an alternate to Android play store, making most of the android apps being compatible with its own (supported) Operating System, which will be an added advantage for them for promoting its new Operating System, but I am sure it would become another BadaOS, over time.

Coming to IVI, Samsung is looking to make the smartphones / tablets as the alternatives, as the processing done by a Carputer can be easily handled by today's tablets, and only thing missing would be the connectors / adapters for the interfaces.
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Old 2nd August 2013, 19:57   #5
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Default re: Tizen Opensource IVI - Replacement of present In-car music systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrous View Post
Thanks for sharing, Anuj.
I'm interested in this. I can only imagine the potential power of this concept.
Well, I'm just sharing the news. There are lots of work going on. Hopefully we sure see some product out of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Not being cynical about it, but I would be pleasantly surprised if anything worthwhile comes out of it.
Reminds me of a line from an old western movie: "If you want to shoot, you shoot. Don't talk!"
Well, no body is talking here. Such product has gained momentum now and it is good to see. Whatever projects you've mentioned is contributing projects. May be those projects are not moving but there are lots of learning from it.
Also, to inform Tizen is backed by Linux Foundation & GENIVI alliance itself and host of other big forums.

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Originally Posted by rishie View Post
Tizen is another OS forked from Android, with a specific set of custom API's on the top for developing the UI apps. .
Your post is news to me. Where it is mentioned that Tizen is Android fork? Also, Tizen apps will be developed using C++ or Web APIs (HTML5) where as Android app is developed in Java.

You can get more information about Tizen IVI at this presentation given by Intel Tizen IVI Program Manager "Joel Clark"
http://files.meetup.com/2623882/Tize...AOS_June14.pdf
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Old 3rd August 2013, 20:10   #6
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Default re: Tizen Opensource IVI - Replacement of present In-car music systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by anujmishra View Post
... Well, no body is talking here. ...
Perhaps you misunderstood me - I was referring to the agencies who are trying to come up with the 'next big thing'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anujmishra View Post
... Such product has gained momentum now ...
The market is yet to see a 'product' as you describe. A 'product' is defined as what a consumer gets off-the-shelf in the market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anujmishra View Post
... Whatever projects you've mentioned is contributing projects. ...
With very few, if at all, migration of resources from an old 'movement' to a new one, there is very little 'transfer of learnings'. The only thing they learnt anyhow was they didn't know jack about what the market needed!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by anujmishra View Post
... Also, to inform Tizen is backed by Linux Foundation & GENIVI alliance itself and host of other big forums. ...
Till date, that has never been a factor behind *any* successful product in the market! Such 'blessings' generate a lot of verbiage, heat and noise as long as funds are available - but one regrettably sees nothing tangible after the dust settles down after the funds evaporate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anujmishra View Post
... Where it is mentioned that Tizen is Android fork? ...
The only commonality is Linux. Tizen took shape first as a set of OS- and language-agnostic APIs, similar to ITRON.

Where all such efforts comes to naught is with an 'integrated product that runs out of the box'. The basic fallacy is in the assumption 'one size fits all'. The Tizen charter, like that of all it's predecessors, is "will support multiple device categories, such as smartphones, tablets, smart TVs, netbooks, and in-vehicle infotainment devices.". From the p-o-v of integrated product, the use case scenarios are as dissimilar as chalk and cheese. The flexibility needed for general computing environment like a tablet or mobile phone is an antithesis to IVI needs, which is completely different for Smart TV needs. Their holy grail is "commonalities", and they smartly leave the nitty-gritties of the actual implementations to 'others in the ecosystem'. Those others have infinitely less capability and resources than the original proponents, and then onwards one has the Humpty Dumpty story to follow.

Unfortunately, industry 'giants' participating in such 'movements' are strange bedfellows. Such relationships, which should prosper on the lines of cooperative movements (no one is the owner, yet everyone contributes), fail to do so completely because of individual 'axes to grind'. Single companies in the quest of the 'next great product' do not carry the burden of an 'all purpose platform'. They manage to bring out real products much faster, even if they made compromises in classical computing approaches.

A Blaupunkt or Pioneer would like to be a first mover and garner market share, and they wouldn't care two hoots if their product had or didn't have anything in common with Smart TVs or mobile phones. When Google made Android, it didn't go all around the world asking for alliances to contribute to Android.
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Old 11th August 2013, 11:43   #7
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Default re: Tizen Opensource IVI - Replacement of present In-car music systems

Thread moved to the Product Discussions Forum in ICE!
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Old 6th September 2013, 12:59   #8
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Default Re: Tizen Opensource IVI - Replacement of present In-car music systems

Tizen is one of the project which I am closely watching esp for a light weight carPC. Android and Tizen are developed for different purposes, in which Tizen is mainly focusing on the IVI apart from the normal android's capability. But both can be customized for IVI with the help of apps, only difference is the inbuilt support for those APIs in the SDK. Tizen has the potential, but it depends on the "portability" given by the companies behind the project, currently it supports only on Intel platform unlike android.

Last edited by ::CMS:: : 6th September 2013 at 13:13.
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Old 6th September 2013, 15:57   #9
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Default Re: Tizen Opensource IVI - Replacement of present In-car music systems

It is not the first time companies like Intel have ventured into the IVI space. Many of them want to leverage some customised and light version of Linux/Unix as an OS that is on some hardware (chip or memory) and all of them expect their systems to be flexible, powerful, blah blah blah (add your own marketing spiel to this).

Of all the initiatives the one I was expecting to frutify was Nokia's Maemo. But Blackberry and Apple happened then Android happened, and Nokia went from hero to zero pretty fast.

MeeGo (www.meego.com) an open source initiative was formed in 2010 with the merger of Nokia’s Maemo and Intel’s Moblin. Both had the same objectives (or very similar objectives). In short they wanted to create a platform that was flexible enough to be used across multiple mobile platforms (from tablets, to phones, to smart TVs to IVI).

Sometime in April-May 2011 Nokia sold it's Symbian division to Accenture and closed down Mameo.

You can find more information on Meego in the links below.
https://www.meego.com/about/public-support-meego
http://www.linuxfoundation.org/node/6144

Intel then started looking for new partners the best alternates being LG and Samsung and even China (ZTE and Qingdao Haier).

I am sure Intel and it's partners have a lot of very smart people working on this but in my limited experience I have found that a "everything including the kitchen sink and lets throw in the bathroom commode too" solution is usually never successful at anything in particular. It would be better if they took one "itch" and scratched it. Then moved on to other problems.

Last edited by navin : 6th September 2013 at 16:01.
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Old 6th September 2013, 17:11   #10
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Default Re: Tizen Opensource IVI - Replacement of present In-car music systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by ::CMS:: View Post
Tizen is one of the project which I am closely watching esp for a light weight carPC.
The availability of x86 tablets makes it possible to even run Windows. However, dealing with the summer heat when the vehicle is parked is a challenge, especially since the shopping malls in many parts of India refuse to let customers carry in their laptops.
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Old 6th September 2013, 17:45   #11
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Default Re: Tizen Opensource IVI - Replacement of present In-car music systems

What will succeed ultimately could be a political decision. The car makers will choose what they want and will decide what succeeds. Could be different ones in different continents/countries.

Last edited by srishiva : 6th September 2013 at 17:46.
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Old 12th September 2013, 11:05   #12
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Default Re: Tizen Opensource IVI - Replacement of present In-car music systems

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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
The basic fallacy is in the assumption 'one size fits all'...
I would say, your statement is an assumption. All devices carry different set of profiles, hence different piece of platform. Underlying commonality I may not deny. If you see latest tizen website, they have just released Tizen IVI 3.0, where is in mobile profile latest SDK is 2.2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
When Google made Android, it didn't go all around the world asking for alliances to contribute to Android.
When Google made Android? Google purchased Android from some other company. Please check this piece of news. http://www.businessweek.com/stories/...mobile-arsenal. Moreover, there are many companies contributing to Android. Specific profile development lies entirely with Google.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ::CMS:: View Post
Tizen is one of the project which I am closely watching esp for a light weight..
Well, regarding the availability of Tizen in another platform, I'm sure there are many companies working on it. I am member of mailing list and often people posting about issues, while porting it to different set of platforms.

As of now, Tizen IVI 3.0 released on August 29. https://wiki.tizen.org/wiki/IVI/IVI_...29,_3.0-M2-Aug


Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
It is not the first time companies like Intel have ventured into the IVI space...
My satisfaction is some work being carried out by somebody for OpenSource IVI. Failure of Meego, Maemo has all together different story. When Nokia itself not existed, how these platforms will? But this is not the case with Tizen, as it is being backed by two tech giants Samsung & Intel and host of other partners.
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Old 12th September 2013, 12:06   #13
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Default Re: Tizen Opensource IVI - Replacement of present In-car music systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by anujmishra View Post
I would say, your statement is an assumption. ...
You are most welcome to, considering you haven't understood what that meant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anujmishra View Post
... All devices carry different set of profiles, ...
Profiles = Generalized Superset, constrained by specific Sub-sets. That generalization is the killer I was referring to. A lot of people have tried, almost all have come up short because of that. It is called "putting the cart before the horse". There is / was nothing wrong with the people, their skills or the organizations (doesn't matter whether continue to exist or have moved on).

A product drives definition of it's constituents, and never a constituent that defines the product. No matter what one says about Profiles. Even before that, if one generalizes a Product too much (as is the current case with "IVI"), no one will recognize it's core functionality - and no one will buy it.

Even Car-makers won't, unless BOM cost is less than INR 5K, which can't be achieved by this method, right? Unlike cellphones, a confused IVI will never sell in millions - and the manufactured cost will not go down to that level.

But yes, I agree, it is nice to make a new generalized OS API with Profiles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anujmishra View Post
... as it is being backed by two tech giants Samsung & Intel and host of other partners.
Intel's interest is obvious: making and selling the chips. They couldn't care less about the product they go into, as long as they are bought by the millions.

So what is Samsung contributing? Audio? Diagnostics? Media handling? Navigation? Or are they just the device platform consultants since they make a lot of cellphones, TVs and DVD players (and of course Internet connected refrigerators)?

Or is that 'backing' just to attract some good minds with the underlying unstated assumption that there are unlimited funds behind this initiative?

Or is the whole premise "Let us just make the API and the SDKs. Minor incidental stuff like I/O we can leave it for others to bother about"? How is *that* anything new or different from the others that failed? If *that* is the premise, it really doesn't matter how many builds are created or how mature the builds are. Cart before horse!

Last edited by DerAlte : 12th September 2013 at 12:07.
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Old 3rd September 2014, 09:26   #14
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Default Re: Tizen Opensource IVI - Replacement of present In-car music systems

Reviving an old thread.

As I mentioned in the Ciaz thread

Quote:
Just a guess because of the name 'Smartplay' infotainment.

There was a news early this year of a company called Smartplay who were working along with Texas Instruments to devise complete entertainment solution for cars. The chosen platform was Tizen, a linux based kernel similar to android.

Tizen is hugely compatibe with Android, iPhone and windows mobile platforms even in terms of running apps from each of these platforms! Have Maruti by any chance taken the bait?
Upon googling, realised there is a thread on team bhp.

Are we looking at the first Tizen based OEM system in India? Or is it just a name co-incidence?

http://www.telegraphindia.com/extern...tails&id=37897

http://smartplayin.com/Uploads/Auto%20IVI%2018314.pdf

Tizen Opensource IVI - Replacement of present In-car music systems-maruticiazpressshotscenterscreen.jpg

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 3rd September 2014 at 09:28.
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Old 13th May 2015, 13:33   #15
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Default Re: Tizen Opensource IVI - Replacement of present In-car music systems

This is an Old thread but few Tizen products are out Namely Samsung Z1 is a phone launched first in India and then Bangladesh. The application store is not as rich as Android for obvious reasons. However the best part of this platform is performance and ability to optimally utilize hardware.

As of today there are Tizen TVs , Cameras and Phones in the market, SDKs are being upgraded constantly and emphasis is on building community.
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