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Old 6th August 2013, 01:21   #1
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Default Predator gets some SQ ICE: Hyundai Verna Install

If I hadn't joined this great forum, I'd always have believed ICE was something that originates inside the freezer and cools drinks. Yet I did, and came in touch with a community of tbhpians who opened my eyes to the idea that music, in its enjoyable form, can become In-Car entertainment. My first audition of ICE was in Me_Sid and ShuvCs cars, both running Illusion Electra Compos, a JBL amp and (probably) a GZ Amp. Not only was the quality of sound vastly improved over my standard "HU and Coaxials" setup, the idea of customization and tuning the sound to my taste, vastly appealed to me. It started my quest on ICE knowledge, aided by untiring inputs from my dear friend Joseph (NOS Power).

Once the basic concepts (damping/cabling/SQ/SPL) went through, it was clear my setup needed to be SQ. I listen to all sorts of music - from Classical, Filmi Music, Ghazals and Sufi to Modern Rock and Jazz (a lot of it lately) - everything except Metal and Rap. So I needed a setup which would accommodate wide tonal variety, while offering exceptional detail.

The planning and research (as well as occasional acquisitions) went on for the next 3 years. The actual install never happened due to lack of both time and budget!. Ultimately this weekend I got the full install done at Motor Concepts, Delhi.

The plan was to keep the stock HU (I know, I know). Have a 4 channel amp running the setup with 2 channels dedicated to the front components (passive) and 2 channels bridged to the sub. Rear fills would run unamped.

Retaining the HU was decided on the grounds that its the only modern double-din HU which also plays cassettes, so my huge (and largely rare) cassette collections wouldn't go to waste. Plus I could always adapt to the sound now and upgrade the HU at a later stage. (Pic courtesy Notorious)

Predator gets some SQ ICE: Hyundai Verna Install-dsc01933.jpg

A little history about the equipment now.

The Amplifier

The mothership that started it all. In 2011 the JBL 75.4 was the darling of the Kolkata tbhpians. But I felt it was too bright, and wanted to elevate my setup a grade higher. Research let to zeroing in on the Infinity Kappa 4. The thing costed a fortune in India, so I got a relative to get me one from the US where it costed less than half that price.

Predator gets some SQ ICE: Hyundai Verna Install-teaser1.jpg

The IK4 was the first piece of my ICE Jigsaw, and the entire ICE was planned around it. Unfortunately it never saw an installation as fate had other plans. On Saturday, when the install was completed, and the amp turned on, it went into emergency mode. We tried but couldn't get it to work. Aman sent it for checking to a man who specializes in repairing high-end amps. He said 2 MOSFETS were out and would need repairing. Aman got his guys to open everything and put back the original wiring. I went back home dejected.

On Sunday the repaired amp came back. We again got the whole install in place, turned on the amp. It worked fine for 10 mins, then went into emergency mode. We let it cool for some time then put it back. Same result. It was clear the thing wouldn't work reliably, and we were putting the whole setup at risk! With a heavy heart, I asked Aman to give me an amp from his stock. It had to be 4 channel, SQ, and have equivalent channel output as the IK4.

There were 3 options to choose from:

The Hertz HDP4 - 4 channel, 150w RMS per channel. The cheapest of the lot, but a shade bright for my liking.

Audison Voce AV Quattro - Legendary 4 channel SQ, 120w RMS per channel. But even with a heavy discount, the thing was waaaay beyond my budget.

Audison LRx 4.1K - Another legendary 4 channel SQ amp, 130w per channel. The discounted price was about the same as what the IK4 would have costed in India. So in the end, I went for the LRx.

Predator gets some SQ ICE: Hyundai Verna Install-dsc01038.jpg

Predator gets some SQ ICE: Hyundai Verna Install-dsc01039.jpg

Predator gets some SQ ICE: Hyundai Verna Install-dsc01040.jpg

The amp is huge. Its about double the length of the Ik4, and sits proudly in the boot with the backlit blue Audison Logo. Sound beautiful too, but more on that later.

Predator gets some SQ ICE: Hyundai Verna Install-dsc01035.jpg

The components

Till the day I walked into Motor Concepts, choice of components had been restricted to those around the 12-15K mark. Had to be SQ, have silk tweeters and be around the 100-125w RMS mark (to match the IK4 power output). Comically most of my previous choices got cancelled for reasons beyond my control.

Illusion Lucents - Company went kaput.

Alpine SPR 17S - Discontinued before I could buy them.

Morel Tempo 6 - Paid advance to a Kolkata dealer to procure a set. When the set landed (after a month of follow-up) it turned out to be the previous gen Tempo 6Xs (lesser output). A call to the India distributor confirmed no Tempo 6s were in stock. Back on the street.

Gladen RS - Auditioned a set in Nitin Sethia's car, and fell in love with this set. Unfortunately Motor Concepts was out of stock, so was (as a phone call confirmed) BBW the distributor.

Aman recommended if I could stretch my budget, I should look for slightly higher-end comps. He recommended the new Rainbow Sound Lines saying they packed exceptional SQ performance for the kind of sound I listened to.

I also spied a set of Audison Voce K6s in his stock. For the uninitiated, this beauty won the 2010-11 European Imaging and Sound Association (EISA) Award for the Best European In-car speaker system. There are countless good reviews online about this set. A bhpian has also installed them in his car:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/sound-...ml#post2245846

Now that I had decided to stretch my budget, the 3rd logical choice was the Gladen SQX set. Sadly, again both MC and BBW were out of stock.

I told Aman I want to audition both the Rainbows and Audisons before I make a decision. He arranged to fit one component each on either front door, and let me have an audition once the amp was setup.

I must admit, in a head-to-head comparo the Soundlines blew away the Audisons. While clarity and detail from the tweeters were brilliant in both (and better than the comps I had previously experienced), the Rainbow's midbass reproduction just seemed a class apart. It took 10 minutes, 2 songs of different genres (and shifting seats about 20 times) to rule in favor of the Rainbow Soundlines.

Predator gets some SQ ICE: Hyundai Verna Install-dsc01041.jpg

Predator gets some SQ ICE: Hyundai Verna Install-dsc01042.jpg

The Subwoofer

Asking for an SQ setup required looking for a sub that would provide tight controlled (not boomy) output when set inside a sealed enclosure, within a budget of 15K. Very early in my planning stage this great review of the Infinity Kappa 120.9 sub was published.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/produc...er-review.html

Admittedly I did hunt around for ID/IDQ subs, but this great company has shut shop. In 2012 snapdeal came up with some IK 120.9s for sale at half the price, a deal I - err - snapped up.

Predator gets some SQ ICE: Hyundai Verna Install-dsc01025.jpg

Love the build quality on this baby:

Predator gets some SQ ICE: Hyundai Verna Install-teaser2.jpg

Predator gets some SQ ICE: Hyundai Verna Install-dsc01027.jpg

Predator gets some SQ ICE: Hyundai Verna Install-dsc01028.jpg

Predator gets some SQ ICE: Hyundai Verna Install-dsc01029.jpg

Flick from 2 to 4 ohms impedance

Predator gets some SQ ICE: Hyundai Verna Install-dsc01030.jpg

In the (company recommended) 1 cu ft sealed enclosure

Predator gets some SQ ICE: Hyundai Verna Install-dsc01037.jpg

Wiring and Damping

Focal 4 gauge wiring kit was used for the install

Predator gets some SQ ICE: Hyundai Verna Install-dsc01034.jpg

Damping was a mixture of Dampmat and Stinger Roadkill Expert. 2 sheets of Dampmat in the front doors and 1 each in the rear doors. 2 sheets of SRE to damp the boot.

Predator gets some SQ ICE: Hyundai Verna Install-dsc01033.jpg

Predator gets some SQ ICE: Hyundai Verna Install-dsc01031.jpg

A word about Motor Concepts

Being in sales myself, I love it when the seller goes the extra mile to ensure customer satisfaction. In a weekend mostly spent at Motor Concepts, I must admit Aman went many an extra mile to ensure I walked out satisfied.
  • He patiently heard out my ICE plan and became the first person to encourage my retaining the stock HU, stating I could get used to the sound and always upgrade later. My request to audition both sets of comps was ably met, as stated in an above para.
  • On Saturday 4 people worked full-time on my car installing the wiring and damping. Aman told me he'd install an MDF board behind the seats to attach the amp. It turned out beautifully covered in carpeting identical to my boot carpet, so a casual onlooker thought it was part of the original upholstery.
  • In the evening when the IK4 went kaput, he could have just told me to buy another amp and finish the install, but he took the IK4 to the repair guy I didn't even know existed. He could have also suggested that the wiring be left as-it-is, but he instructed his guys to remove the components and rewire the original stuff as it is, so I was not left without audio for the evening.
  • On Sunday when everything was refitted and the Ik4 went kaput again, he fitted a test amp (on my suggestion) just to check it wasn't a problem with the wiring. It wasn't. Even then he could have told me to buy another amp, but he suggested we show the IK4 to the repair guy once again. It was I who lost patience and told him to move on with a new amp which I'd pay for.
  • The install got over at 7. Even then he sat with me for an hour in the car (with his team on standby) tuning everything to my satisfaction.
  • The install was done with not a single nut out of place. The comps have been installed in stock Verna front door locations, hence unless someone opens the boot the interiors are a sleeper!

The point of all this is, it is this sort of service that guarantees repeat customers!

The experience

I have done just about 4-5hrs of listening since yesterday. The sub is yet to break-in and sounds so, while the Sound Lines sound good right out of the box. The amp is giving out ample power, yet never making the sound overpowering.

I love the fact that I'm discovering newer nuances to songs heard many times before. Did you know "Taal se Taal Mila" has a 1-2-1-2 bassline? I'm also discovering the tuning options on my 5 year old HU, and how they're affecting the setup. Addictive, I tell you!

Lastly, I want to thank ShuvC, Saby (XetaGLGRocks), Me_Sid, Gunbir, Cityvic, Notorious and everyone else I consulted for ICE, and most of all NOS Power for spending hours discussing ICE research and options.

Last edited by predatorwheelz : 6th August 2013 at 01:22.
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Old 6th August 2013, 10:11   #2
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Default re: Predator gets some SQ ICE: Hyundai Verna Install

That's a good setup! I've heard many people who are not satisfied with a 5 channel amp but go for a separate monoblock amp for the sub, do you find any such differences? Are you also going to change your HU? I guess that would be ideal.
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Old 6th August 2013, 13:55   #3
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Default re: Predator gets some SQ ICE: Hyundai Verna Install

Quote:
Originally Posted by predatorwheelz View Post
A word about Motor Concepts

Being in sales myself, I love it when the seller goes the extra mile to ensure customer satisfaction. In a weekend mostly spent at Motor Concepts, I must admit Aman went many an extra mile to ensure I walked out satisfied.
Lovely review Predator. Would love for you to add Motor Concepts to TBHP's Directory (see link below) so future members can benefit.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/team-bhp-directory/
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Old 6th August 2013, 22:01   #4
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Default re: Predator gets some SQ ICE: Hyundai Verna Install

So finally this project is done.

Sad to see the IK4 meeting with that fate, but then whatever happens, happens for the best.

You'll enjoy your music much more than you've ever done before.

On one note, try out your cassette's and check if they sound better. As in a comparison between cassette's and cd/dvd's.
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Old 6th August 2013, 22:16   #5
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Default re: Predator gets some SQ ICE: Hyundai Verna Install

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitinbose View Post
That's a good setup! I've heard many people who are not satisfied with a 5 channel amp but go for a separate monoblock amp for the sub, do you find any such differences?
Thanks! Its too early to think of a Mono. The LRX is alredy putting out 500w in Bridged mode and we've kept the subwoofer gains on the lower side. Once the sub breaks in and we tune it, we'll get an idea of its real sonic capabilities. The decision to (or not to) get a Mono will come then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitinbose View Post
Are you also going to change your HU? I guess that would be ideal.
I'm aware that a more modern, feature packed HU will enhance the sound a lot. In fact I'd almost finalized a high-end HU with time alignment and all the jazz! But let me get used to the sound with the existing HU (also enjoy my cassettes while I still can).

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
Lovely review Predator. Would love for you to add Motor Concepts to TBHP's Directory (see link below) so future members can benefit.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/team-bhp-directory/
But Motor Concepts already has a dedicated thread in the directory. Here's the link. Will update my experience shortly.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/delhi-...den-delhi.html (ICE & Accessories - Motor Concept (Rajouri Garden, Delhi))


In other news, I'm going back to get the parcel tray damped. The Verna parcel tray is a pretty hefty piece, but no match to the sub. Can't stand the rattle on lower frequencies!
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Old 6th August 2013, 22:55   #6
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Default re: Predator gets some SQ ICE: Hyundai Verna Install

Brilliant, so finally this project is complete by pending over 2 years.
You will love the Rainbow's.I myself am running dreamline compos in my type 2 city.

What are the rear fills now?
Get the crossovers mounted on the MDF board next to the amp,shall look cool.
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Old 7th August 2013, 00:16   #7
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Default re: Predator gets some SQ ICE: Hyundai Verna Install

Super ! Finally ! And it seems some serious money has gone into the setup. I'd love t know how much the 'stretch' was
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Old 7th August 2013, 09:59   #8
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Default re: Predator gets some SQ ICE: Hyundai Verna Install

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Originally Posted by predatorwheelz View Post
But Motor Concepts already has a dedicated thread in the directory. Here's the link. Will update my experience shortly.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/delhi-...den-delhi.html (ICE & Accessories - Motor Concept (Rajouri Garden, Delhi))
My bad. I tried to find if they did but failed. Anyways an update would be nice. Enjoy the ICE.
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Old 8th August 2013, 09:40   #9
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Default re: Predator gets some SQ ICE: Hyundai Verna Install

Congratulations Sir Ji , So They Were The Soundlines

When Are You Coming Back For Audition ???
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Old 8th August 2013, 10:49   #10
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Default re: Predator gets some SQ ICE: Hyundai Verna Install

Excellent amp, this amplifier has been used in a lot of set ups showcased earlier on teambhp! I have been drooling over this since a long long time now, if you don't mind, please share the price of the LRx 4.1k.
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Old 8th August 2013, 18:21   #11
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Default re: Predator gets some SQ ICE: Hyundai Verna Install

Awesome! Congratulations on the amazing new ICE setup. Its incredible the way you've over time, researched, saved and planned. Testimony to your passion for good audio.

Hope you enjoy your new setup; and will follow your thread for future updates.

If you're comfortable sharing rough/approximate part cost, do post, as it would be informative to know whether a quality setup like this is realistically possible for aspiring audio-enthusiasts.
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Old 9th August 2013, 23:33   #12
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Default re: Predator gets some SQ ICE: Hyundai Verna Install

Good choice of equipment, time to buy a new HU to fully utilize the setup. Alpine 117 and Pioneer P80 !! Look no further unless you wish a double din and video .
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Old 10th August 2013, 08:52   #13
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Default re: Predator gets some SQ ICE: Hyundai Verna Install

Great write up, why don't you put up a video for our "audition"?!

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Old 10th August 2013, 19:41   #14
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Default re: Predator gets some SQ ICE: Hyundai Verna Install

Made another trip to Motor Concepts today to get the rear parcel shelf damped. It was producing sub-induced rattle in an otherwise perfect sounding setup. 2 more sheets of Stinger Roadkill Expert went in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cityvic View Post
Brilliant, so finally this project is complete by pending over 2 years.
You will love the Rainbow's.I myself am running dreamline compos in my type 2 city.
Thanks buddy. I am completely in love with the Soundlines. Have only had about 15 hrs of run-in, but they were sounding good right out of the box!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cityvic View Post
What are the rear fills now?
The stock Verna coaxials. I had picked up a set of used JBL GT5-S396 coaxials some years back, but Aman advised against them. It is a front-based soundstage and the rears anyway run unamped. Picking the JBLs would have just ensured unnecessary brightness from the rear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cityvic View Post
Get the crossovers mounted on the MDF board next to the amp,shall look cool.
Thought of it initially, but stayed away considering the unnecessary wiring and the fact that I'd have access from inside the cabin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NOTORIOUS View Post
Congratulations Sir Ji , So They Were The Soundlines

When Are You Coming Back For Audition ???
Was there today Sirji, you were absent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by virtualdanger View Post
Awesome! Congratulations on the amazing new ICE setup. Its incredible the way you've over time, researched, saved and planned. Testimony to your passion for good audio.

Hope you enjoy your new setup; and will follow your thread for future.
Thanks. Yes a lot of research (and bugging others) has gone into the setup. In the end I'm happy with what I got.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eminenttismo View Post
Great write up, why don't you put up a video for our "audition"?
Unfortunately the video will be a cellphone camera video or a SLR video at best. How do I get across the sound experience through that? Come down to Delhi and take an audition!


Quote:
Originally Posted by 599gto View Post
Excellent amp, this amplifier has been used in a lot of set ups showcased earlier on teambhp! I have been drooling over this since a long long time now, if you don't mind, please share the price of the LRx 4.1k.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shuvc View Post
Super ! Finally ! And it seems some serious money has gone into the setup. I'd love t know how much the 'stretch' was
Lots of queries on the cost of the setup. Here goes:

Rainbow Soundline Components - 20K
Infinity Kappa 120.9 Sub - 7K (Stock price 15K)
Audison LRx 4.1 - 40K (Stock price 62K. This is only a limited stock/limited period offer, I'm told)
Damping (Dampmat) - 6K (6 sheets for the front and rear doors)
Damping (Stinger Roadkill Expert) - 6K (4 sheets for the boot and parcel tray)
Cabling (Total) - 6K
Installation - 2.5K (incl MDF board and carpeting in the boot)

Total Cost - 87.5K
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Old 10th August 2013, 20:50   #15
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Default re: Predator gets some SQ ICE: Hyundai Verna Install

Quote:
Originally Posted by predatorwheelz View Post
Unfortunately the video will be a cellphone camera video or a SLR video at best. How do I get across the sound experience through that? Come down to Delhi and take an audition!
I suppose the complete setup has been optimized for driver/front passengers hearing, I think we can have a good experience of your setup from a HD camera positioned from driver seat. Yet, it'd not be the perfect scale to experience your system. Congrats, drive safe.
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