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Old 12th November 2013, 13:22   #16
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Default Re: The Downside of High-End Audio Installs

Thanks for starting this thread!

I was excited when I fit all the ICE equipments in my Figo which is used to chauffer my wife to work. But the problem, when our driver goes on leave, we bring the daily wage driver to work and most of them spend good amount of time playing with the controls as the touch screen panel keeps them busy when they have to spend close to 8 hours in the car waiting at the office parking.

My other car is a Fiesta 1.6S and it makes some loud noise and my wifey hates to be chauffered in the car, the car has been through some weight reduction exercise too, now that I dont even have a HU in the car.

So now I am forced to live with fixing the mess whenever the Figo is used by a different driver :(
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Old 12th November 2013, 14:30   #17
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Default Re: The Downside of High-End Audio Installs

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
I have another point to make.
Does it make sense to do a 6 figure install in a sub 15 Lakh car unless you are into SPL record breaking attempts.
Think of it this way.
You will use your install while driving. Any compact or D segmenter will have some noise insulation from traffic and road, but not much.
So with the background road drone, a 20,000 INR system, and a 20,000,000 INR system will sound the same.
Unless you are going to park it in your living room and then listen to music, worrying too much about sound quality after a level is pointless, because ambient noise will anyways drown out the subtle differences you will get after increasing sound level.

Well whether to go for a higher ICE or not is quiet debatable , its like asking whether you would need that extra BHP with the condition of roads we have here add to it the traffic and chaos on the road.

Also I completely disagree with your point that a 20k system will sound the same as a 2 lacs in trafic, my argument is very simple just go ahead and listen to it in parallel in traffic conditions and you would draw your conclusions. Ofcourse I would suggest do roll the windows up to completely enjoy the system in true sense.

A factory system will not sound as good as an after market well chosen and tuned system - I dont think we need to debate on this topic, there are many threads on team-bhp where enthutiasts have thrown away the factory system as soon as they have got the car, some have gone lenghts to even choose the car based on their ICE requirements.

I cover considerate distance everyday for my office-home commute and the whole journey is more enjoyable just because of the ICE I have, it just makes you happy and not annoyed waiting in the endless traffic, I have many times vered away from my defined route just to enjoy the ICE a bit more. I am sure many ICE fanatics would have done it too.
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Old 12th November 2013, 14:36   #18
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Default Re: The Downside of High-End Audio Installs

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Well whether to go for a higher ICE or not is quiet debatable , its like asking whether you would need that extra BHP with the condition of roads we have here add to it the traffic and chaos on the road.

Also I completely disagree with your point that a 20k system will sound the same as a 2 lacs in trafic, my argument is very simple just go ahead and listen to it in parallel in traffic conditions and you would draw your conclusions. Ofcourse I would suggest do roll the windows up to completely enjoy the system in true sense..
Okay 20K was too low a figure. But I have listened to some high end systems and mid end systems on highway speeds. There is no difference with the drone of the tires. Heck, majority of the bad sounding systems are due to poor tuning and settings.
Of course when car is parked, windows rolled up its good.

That said, a scientifically placed system taking into account the curvature of the car interior and acoustic properties of materials used in the interior will perform the best. Probably that 50K well placed system speakers will outshine the 2L system by a long shot.

People who are into high end audio spend an even higher amount in fixing the room where the high end audio will sit. If for home audio you need to completely remodel the room, then why will a 2L system give any benefit without remodeling the car? Just Asking!
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Old 12th November 2013, 14:45   #19
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Default Re: The Downside of High-End Audio Installs

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Okay 20K was too low a figure. But I have listened to some high end systems and mid end systems on highway speeds. There is no difference with the drone of the tires. Heck, majority of the bad sounding systems are due to poor tuning and settings.
Of course when car is parked, windows rolled up its good.

That said, a scientifically placed system taking into account the curvature of the car interior and acoustic properties of materials used in the interior will perform the best. Probably that 50K well placed system speakers will outshine the 2L system by a long shot.

People who are into high end audio spend an even higher amount in fixing the room where the high end audio will sit. If for home audio you need to completely remodel the room, then why will a 2L system give any benefit without remodeling the car? Just Asking!
Ofcourse what you said is completely true, tuning and placement plays a very important role in the whole setup, as much as the chosing of right set of equipments. If a well selected and tuned system (comparitevely lesser costing) is run in parallel, it definetely can give a good beating to a not soo well designed or tuned 2L system.

Car in itself has disadvantages to run an ICE system given the dynamics of the whole body shell, but there are many who have overcome the limitations and are able to get a very good sounding audio system installed - full respect to such individuals IMHO. Home audio is a different ball game and there you get a much flexbile approach and area to play around with in getting the sound stage right.
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Old 12th November 2013, 15:32   #20
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Default Re: The Downside of High-End Audio Installs

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Originally Posted by Ajaybiz View Post
Cant digest the FE going up just by removing woofer, must be some other issue, BTW you have quite costly cars as per Indian standard, may I know where you got the Installation done in Bangalore, as few of them are known for their work rest are JC road stuff.
Even battery going down so fast is more of issue with Installation and or poor electrical system.
Better get it redone with famous audio installer from Koramangala, near Jyoti Niwas College.
I got my installation by Autofusion. I had a sub, 2 amps (4-channel and monoblock), 4 sets of component speakers. The weight of everything put together is about 50Kgs, so its almost as if you've got an extra person.
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Old 12th November 2013, 19:03   #21
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Default Re: The Downside of High-End Audio Installs

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Originally Posted by nitinbose View Post
I got my installation by Autofusion. I had a sub, 2 amps (4-channel and monoblock), 4 sets of component speakers. The weight of everything put together is about 50Kgs, so its almost as if you've got an extra person.
All the items in your list put together shouldn't weigh 50kg but I could be wrong here also. Even for 50kg add on (say one thin person with 5.2ft kind of height) your FE cannot change that drastically.

For your battery issue ask Touqeer to check installation properly.
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Old 12th November 2013, 19:32   #22
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Default Re: The Downside of High-End Audio Installs

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
1. Forget about the precise fit of panels & plastic parts:

2. Risk of Theft:

3. Complexity = Things going wrong. K.I.S.S.

5. Reduced Boot Capacity:

10. Other Points & Concerns:[*]Safety: Wiring, part & labour quality have to be top-class. Else, you are risking an electrical fire.
GTO - thanks for the thoughtful thread!

For me, having gone through the ICE (albeit in a small way in terms of amount of money spent back in 2004, these days people spend 6 figures!) install in an earlier car, I was pretty sure I would not want to do it again if I can get my next car in a variant that had a decent audio setup (very debatable and varies from person to person, or should we say ear to ear ).
In addition to the reasons I've quoted from your post, I'd add these from my experience:
-drilling holes in panels
-loose wires
-the Head unit/speakers are invariably old/obsolete when you sell the car 3-5 years later and you'd rather give them away than retain them for the next car


Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
But the problem, when our driver goes on leave, we bring the daily wage driver to work and most of them spend good amount of time playing with the controls as the touch screen panel keeps them busy when they have to spend close to 8 hours in the car waiting at the office parking.
Rude as it may seem, I know some folks who remove the head unit face plate when they leave the car with the driver.

Last edited by NPV : 12th November 2013 at 19:41.
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Old 12th November 2013, 20:03   #23
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Default Re: The Downside of High-End Audio Installs

Question : What is High-End Car Audio?

Anyone using a 20k setup in his car here considers himself having a high-end setup in car.By just adding up speakers,multiple car amplifiers,throwing up sub-woofers in the trunk does not mean your using a so called High-End system

Its not always about having big sub-woofers or big power amplifiers,it all depends upon the right kind of installation,tuning and sound staging what one is looking for,which could differ from brand to brand,weather it be big or small car audio passion will stay forever amongst audiophiles.

Ramie
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Old 12th November 2013, 20:32   #24
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Default Re: The Downside of High-End Audio Installs

I tried to ICE my Xylo. After carefully analysing the current OE setup, other options, the efforts and nuisances involved, I decided to leave it as it is. No upgrade.

Now I decided to put that money in a good home-speaker setup and enjoy my music leisurely at home. And that too when you have your better half with a different music taste (Ilayaraja songs vs OSTs) it is not worth to invest the money in ICE upgrade.

As suggested, a good pair of headphones or a premium home-speaker setup should do. For myself, I will go for speaker boxes based on the designs from FOSTEX, and fix the BOSTON S65 drivers in it. (Not a audiophile setup but experimental setup).
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Old 12th November 2013, 21:05   #25
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Default Re: The Downside of High-End Audio Installs

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Originally Posted by rajeshsundaram View Post
For myself, I will go for speaker boxes based on the designs from FOSTEX, and fix the BOSTON S65 drivers in it. (Not a audiophile setup but experimental setup).


Dont waste your money by fixing coax speakers in an enclosure designed for fostex full range speakers. Each design is specific to a particular speaker. All speakers cannot be used in a transmission line designs.
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Old 12th November 2013, 21:11   #26
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Default Re: The Downside of High-End Audio Installs

Nice topic to debate on. And I agree to most of the points initially posted.
Music is passion, Agreed. IMO ICE is both passion and show off (me running for cover )

While I drive, I drive and enjoy every bit of it literally.

M'I a music lover? Yes quiet passionate about it as a listener so I would rather invest in headphones or a home setup.

Last edited by HammerHead : 12th November 2013 at 21:12.
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Old 12th November 2013, 21:11   #27
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Default Re: The Downside of High-End Audio Installs

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Dont waste your money by fixing coax speakers in an enclosure designed for fostex full range speakers. Each design is specific to a particular speaker. All speakers cannot be used in a transmission line designs.
Informative reply no doubt, but just a small reminder:

Try not to get in to any audio installation discussion here. We have plenty of threads on that.
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Old 12th November 2013, 21:39   #28
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I dont know, if someone mentioned this or not, but with a high end audio system in the car, there is this unwanted attention which the car gets from the public.
People tend to have a Negative/bad image for the owner & the car.

I dont know if any of you have faced this, but i am saying this out of personal experience.
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Old 12th November 2013, 23:12   #29
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Default Re: The Downside of High-End Audio Installs

Ohh what a thread!

I am so tempted to upgrade ICE in my XUV, but holding self back. Why? The no so great experience with my earlier cars in both reputed places and the neighborhood or "electronics street shops"

Almost always, my cars were scratched, rattling panels, screwed up wiring etc.

So, I am in search of this 'dream' installer who will not torture my XUV.
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Old 12th November 2013, 23:28   #30
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Default Re: The Downside of High-End Audio Installs

Thanks for the observations. I feel the same GTO - I had gone for an upgrade in my last car, the Baleno that I still own. I had a JBL, dual amp (4 channel + monoblock ) system in the Baleno. Thanks to Sam, I even received a good discount on the price.

However, the installers lost almost all the plastic clips that kept the mattings and the related paraphenalia in place, lost the screws of the dash - making the dash open up on a trip, the heavy dual coil sub ate up the boot mat!

The system was great while it lasted, though it ate the battery rather fast...45k / 3 years. Again, my car did more trips for the HU problems ...for the rest, it was just regular servicing that kept the car happy.

And in one rain, the amps got wet, water came in car, dont know whether through some misplaced plugs after the aforesaid install?..and my system started playing selective speakers, sometimes, front, sometimes rear, sometimes left only etc. Multiple trips to multiple mechanics could not sort this out.

Next car - Innova, worked with the stock Toyota unit for one year, lousy tinny speakers, only because of the former experience...finally upgraded the speakers to infinity components in front and back and got a new HU.

Net net, while I did change the speakers and HU in the next car, I stayed away from amps, rewiring and other ICE that gets everything in your car opened up...and feel pretty happy.

Now only if someone fixes my Baleno system. Once we had a party in a hotel lawn in coorg, the DJ system got blown and the used my car which at nearly 500 RMS privided decent punch for the outing!!

Last edited by Buffetfan : 12th November 2013 at 23:33.
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