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Old 10th January 2014, 14:34   #1
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Angry XUV500 ICE Disaster: Speaker Humm & Hiss

Wanted to upgrade the ICE in my brand new XUV500 W8. Narrowed on technocrat, a better known installer in Chennai . They have got decent feedback here in Team-BHP as well.

My setup is as follows
Infinity - Kappa 60.11cs - Components Front
Infinity - PR6500CS - Components Back
Blaupunkt - EMA 455 - 4-Channel Class A/B Amplifier
Focal - PK8 - 8 AWG Complete wiring kit

High to low converter was not used since the Amp had high level input support

The installation was done pretty neatly, but the sound output had a high pitched (mosquito frequency, that really hurt your ears) sound. Irrespective of whether the infotainment system was ON or OFF

Next, two different High to Low converter brands were tried. One was from DHC India and the other was Focal. Both reduced the noise to a certain extent, but not completely.

Next to my biggest shock, the amp was totally by-passed and the newly installed speakers were directly connected to the HU out, and, the hiss was still present

This hiss was totally absent in the stock state and now with just the speaker change, this hiss has been created.

The installer says this issue is specific to XUV only and a flaw with the infotainment system.

I understand this issue has been discussed in a scattered manner in a few threads. What is the solution? I am very disappointed in breaking something which was working okay and spending money as well. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

The installer did not suggest this, but would the "AudioControl - LC6i - Line Output Converter" do a better job than the other converters, since it is active and not passive and it’s got good reviews on performance in reducing this kind of noise?

Thanks a bunch for your advice.

Last edited by timj : 10th January 2014 at 14:36. Reason: typo fix
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Old 10th January 2014, 15:17   #2
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Default re: XUV500 ICE Disaster: Speaker Humm & Hiss

Quote:
Originally Posted by timj View Post
Infinity - Kappa 60.11cs - Components Front
Infinity - PR6500CS - Components Back
Blaupunkt - EMA 455 - 4-Channel Class A/B Amplifier
Focal - PK8 - 8 AWG Complete wiring kit

but the sound output had a high pitched (mosquito frequency, that really hurt your ears) sound. Irrespective of whether the infotainment system was ON or OFF
If this hiss is present even when the system is OFF then the source of the hiss is NOT the entertainment system.

Alternator whine is a high pitched noise that VARIES with engine speed (as you rev the car) and is only present when the audio system is ON.
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Old 10th January 2014, 15:18   #3
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Default re: XUV500 ICE Disaster: Speaker Humm & Hiss

This seems to be an earthing (a tear in the speaker wires) or shorting of speaker coils issue but then I am no expert.

You may want to have this checked out at either of the following two places in Madras, the first is Powerzone (Sarvannah) and the other one is Chandru Auto stores (Haresh Jethwani) before this leads to something bigger and worse.


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The installation was done pretty neatly, but the sound output had a high pitched (mosquito frequency, that really hurt your ears) sound. Irrespective of whether the infotainment system was ON or OFF
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Old 10th January 2014, 15:24   #4
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Originally Posted by navin View Post
If this hiss is present even when the system is OFF then the source of the hiss is NOT the entertainment system.
Sorry for the dis-clarity here. This was the case when the speakers were connected through the amp. When the speakers were connected directly to the infotainment, this hiss did not occur. However, when the infotainment was started, the hiss starts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
Alternator whine is a high pitched noise that VARIES with engine speed (as you rev the car) and is only present when the audio system is ON.
There is no alternator whine here. I know how alternator sounds and this is not the case
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Old 10th January 2014, 15:40   #5
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Default re: XUV500 ICE Disaster: Speaker Humm & Hiss

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Originally Posted by timj View Post
Sorry for the dis-clarity here. This was the case when the speakers were connected through the amp. When the speakers were connected directly to the infotainment, this hiss did not occur. However, when the infotainment was started, the hiss starts.


There is no alternator whine here. I know how alternator sounds and this is not the case
What we know so far...(sorry if I am going a little slow, I am old and feeble, please excuse me).

1. Ok so it is not alternator whine (this is the most common of electrical noises that creep in via the entertainment systems)

2. The speakers had a high pitched noise with the amp was connected (even with the system turned OFF).

3. The speakers had the same high pitched noise with the amp bypassed only when the system was turned ON.

When the amp is "bypassed" is the amp still connected to the battery (power connections) and only RCA connections bypassed?

Does this high pitched noise vary in frequency or level?

Have you tried to return to the stock speakers and disconnect all 3rd party equipment (both from the audio chain and from the power supply)?
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Old 10th January 2014, 16:23   #6
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Default re: XUV500 ICE Disaster: Speaker Humm & Hiss

1,2,3 are right Navin.
Amp is fully powered off and disconnected now.
No change of frequency. Same pitched whine.

Similar discussion has been done previously and you've been involved too
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/ask-gu...ml#post2874911 #62 - #67 . But however, the thread seems to have moved on and deviated from this issue
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Old 10th January 2014, 16:28   #7
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Default re: XUV500 ICE Disaster: Speaker Humm & Hiss

The pk8 kit RCA which your using is actually creating the issues replace that with some good cables and hi-level input your sorted with this.Thanks.

Ramie
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Old 10th January 2014, 16:48   #8
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Default re: XUV500 ICE Disaster: Speaker Humm & Hiss

If the Blau amp has hi-level inputs, the installer wouldn't have connected RCA cables at all originally. They would have used RCA cables when they connected the external LOCs.

This sounds like a ground loop. One possible solution is to use shielded 2-core mic cable (thick) from the harness tap off point (speaker connections) to the amps high level inputs. Connect the shield of the cables to ground at *one end only*.

Last edited by DerAlte : 10th January 2014 at 16:52.
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Old 10th January 2014, 17:09   #9
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Default re: XUV500 ICE Disaster: Speaker Humm & Hiss

Try connecting the new speakers directly to the HU without any changes to the oem setup including the cables, if hissing is there, connect back the original speakers and carefully listen for the hiss or any other kind of noise, if it is there then due to the better sensitivity of the speakers the hiss is getting noticed. Its very imp to make sure that the hiss was already there or not.

If it is not there with the oem speakers, then connect a different set of speakers and the hiss is still there, then connect the speakers one by one. Imp point here is to void the hissing before doing any changes to the oem setup, if you are not able to avoid then there is no point in keeping the oem HU, buy an aftermarket HU and power it from the battery. All other band aids will not work with the earthing loop problem.
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Old 10th January 2014, 22:58   #10
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Default re: XUV500 ICE Disaster: Speaker Humm & Hiss

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
If the Blau amp has hi-level inputs, the installer wouldn't have connected RCA cables at all originally. They would have used RCA cables when they connected the external LOCs.

This sounds like a ground loop. One possible solution is to use shielded 2-core mic cable (thick) from the harness tap off point (speaker connections) to the amps high level inputs. Connect the shield of the cables to ground at *one end only*.
Thanks..will try the method of the 2 core mic cable and grinding. However, will this solve the problem? Please let me know.
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Old 11th January 2014, 10:25   #11
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Default re: XUV500 ICE Disaster: Speaker Humm & Hiss

Quote:
Originally Posted by timj View Post
Similar discussion has been done previously and you've been involved too
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/ask-gu...ml#post2874911 #62 - #67 . But however, the thread seems to have moved on and deviated from this issue
Timj - Anand successfully managed to install his car audio system (post 75 below), it was pointed out in posts 65 and 66 that Anand had yet to buy the vehicle and had probably anticipated this issue or had been warned about this issue. Since there was no challenge after he installed his stereo we moved on.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/ask-gu...ml#post2874911

Quote:
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Amp is fully powered off and disconnected now.
No change of frequency. Same pitched whine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
This sounds like a ground loop. One possible solution is to use shielded 2-core mic cable (thick) from the harness tap off point (speaker connections) to the amps high level inputs. Connect the shield of the cables to ground at *one end only*.
If there is a ground loop why does the whine exist even after the amplifier has been takenout of the equation (both power and audio sections bypassed)?

DA, Timj is getting a high pitched sound with only the OEM HU connected to 3rd party speakers. Am I right TimJ?

TimJ, can we do this. Disconnect all 4 speakers. Connect one pair and time and see if the sound is isolated to a pair. If some metal basket of the speaker or a tab of the speaker is touching some other metal that might be the source.
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Old 11th January 2014, 10:59   #12
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Default re: XUV500 ICE Disaster: Speaker Humm & Hiss

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
... If there is a ground loop why does the whine exist even after the amplifier has been takenout of the equation (both power and audio sections bypassed)?

DA, Timj is getting a high pitched sound with only the OEM HU connected to 3rd party speakers. Am I right TimJ? ...
The source still remains even after the amp has been disconnected. @timj's description is a bit ambiguous on this - according to his description hiss started coming after the new speakers were connected to the HU, but he has not mentioned whether the whine was present or absent.

My suspicion is that when tapping high-level speaker signal, something has been disturbed in the grounding - either opened or double connected. It could even be a loosely connected rear connector at the HU.
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Old 11th January 2014, 17:49   #13
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Default re: XUV500 ICE Disaster: Speaker Humm & Hiss

It would be nice if some other Xuv500 owner shares if they had the same experience. The reason being, if you see my link in my previous message, it seems to be a general problem which the installers know off.
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Old 13th January 2014, 15:12   #14
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Default Re: XUV500 ICE Disaster: Speaker Humm & Hiss

Quote:
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... it seems to be a general problem which the installers know off.
Such problems are usually independent of car make or model. If what you say is true, shouldn't they be also aware of the solutions? The problem is most installers go about installations and problem solving quite empirically. If they adopt a technically-correct systematic approach, they will be able to figure out what is wrong.
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Old 20th January 2014, 22:30   #15
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Default Re: XUV500 ICE Disaster: Speaker Humm & Hiss

Update on my situation:
The high pitched whine ended to be a product defect. Mr. Bala from technocrat guided me to the nearest Nippon service and they tried replacing the Infotainment and the whine disappeared.

Then AudioControl - LC6i - Line Output Converter was used and the amp reconnected. All seems well, except that I noticed that there is a slight hiss emerging at all times. This hiss is exactly the hiss that you hear when you turn the volume of a home stereo or amp all the way up when nothing is playing.

This hiss is however not as obtrusive or irritating as the whine. Need to take the vehicle back to technocrat to ask them to check on what can be done.
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