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Old 6th December 2014, 21:59   #31
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Default Re: ICE for the 4th-gen Honda City

I am about to making a booking for the Honda City CVT and pretty unhappy with the stock HU in the SV version. The following are important to me

1. Good sound quality
2. Good bluetooth telephony (SV doesn't have a mic close to the driver)
3. Reverse camera
4. Navigation is just a nice to have, but not essential

Option 1 - Replace HU + add reverse camera with input to HU + replace stock speakers
Dealer is offering a Blaupunkt unit (Las Vegas or San Diego) with external mic. at 26k. Any idea how much this whole setup will cost (speakers + reverse camera etc.)

Option 2: Retain stock HU + add reverse camera with display in IRVM + replace speakers + Jabra Freeway for bluetooth telephony

Can experts comment on approximate cost of these options and which one will be good in terms of sound quality? Are there any other alternatives that I am missing?

I wish Honda really provides the V variant for CVT which has all these factory fitted :(
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Old 19th December 2014, 13:23   #32
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Default Re: ICE for the 4th-gen Honda City

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Originally Posted by KRN View Post
1. Good sound quality
2. Good bluetooth telephony (SV doesn't have a mic close to the driver)
3. Reverse camera
4. Navigation is just a nice to have, but not essential
Hey KRN! Are you looking for a touchscreen system or a simple 2 DIN head unit? And how much are you ready to spend because that makes the entire decision a lot easier

Mod Note: Please quote ONLY the relevant bits of a post. Quoting a full, long post inconveniences our mobile readers.

Last edited by Rudra Sen : 19th December 2014 at 13:34.
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Old 19th December 2014, 19:55   #33
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Default Re: ICE for the 4th-gen Honda City

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Hey KRN! Are you looking for a touchscreen system or a simple 2 DIN head unit? And how much are you ready to spend because that makes the entire decision a lot easier
I don't really need a touch screen and OK with a decent 2 DIN that is compatible with the 4th gen Honda City. I am OK to spend INR 35K to 40K.

Between my earlier post and now, the dealer has given me a quote as follows

1. Blaunpunkt San Diego 530 + External mic (for Bluetooth telephony) + Reverse Camera - INR 34,000

2. Blaunpunkt Las Vegas 530 + External mic (for Bluetooth telephony) + Reverse Camera - INR 26,000

What is your take on these systems? I plan to upgrade the speakers later and add a sub woofer.

Any alternate systems that I should consider?
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Old 19th December 2014, 21:21   #34
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Default Re: ICE for the 4th-gen Honda City

The prices are slightly on the higher side and that's kinda expected from the A.S.C.

I can't really comment on these 2 products since I haven't used them myself. Quick google search about the San Diego shows that it's a good product overall.

But personally I think you can skip the touchscreen, if that's not really the criteria and pick up a solid 2 DIN HU from Kenwood/Alpine/Pioneer, that'll definitely provide you impressive SQ. The only separate thing you would need is the reverse camera.

I think the gurus can help us out more.
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Old 1st January 2015, 23:05   #35
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

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Guys need some suggestion for a basic ICE setup for my 2001 honda city vtec.

A 1DIN stereo(with usb, aux and cd), and a pair of speakers each for front and rear. Any ideas on the size of speaker which can fit in the space provided inside the front door panel?

Budget anywhere between 10k-15k, though would be happy to keep it below 10k.

Thanks.
Being a ICE newbie, and from what little I could understand from searching on this forum, coaxial or component for front (2 way, 3 way) (size?) and 6X9 ovals at the rear. This for a basic setup on a budget.

I also want to get new wiring done for both front and rear speakers. Is it expensive? How much should it cost and what type of wiring should be used? Need a new antenna as well.

Any suggestions on the brands, make, model ,etc would be appreciated. Thanks.
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Old 2nd January 2015, 13:53   #36
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

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Originally Posted by racingmachine View Post
Being a ICE newbie, and from what little I could understand from searching on this forum, coaxial or component for front (2 way, 3 way) (size?) and 6X9 ovals at the rear. This for a basic setup on a budget.

I also want to get new wiring done for both front and rear speakers. Is it expensive? How much should it cost and what type of wiring should be used? Need a new antenna as well.

Any suggestions on the brands, make, model ,etc would be appreciated. Thanks.
Hi racingmachine.
For a basic set up, I would suggest you go in for a set of 6.5 inch 2-way component speakers up front and a set of 6.5 inch 2-way co-axials for the rear stage.
Yo can look at brands like Focal, JBL, Alpine, Rockford Fosgate, Hertz, Infinity, Kicker etc. A good entry level set should cost you 6-10k Rs.

For the rear stage I suggest you skip the 6x9s because the City doesn't have stock install locations for these. You should go in for a set of co-axials from the same brand and series as the front components. A decent set should cost anywhere between 3-6k Rs.

Run this set of speakers off a good HU and it would suffice for most needs.
There are multiple HUs available, most HUs in the 3-20k have same kind of sound quality IMHO , so select the one which has the features you want or need like BT, touchscreen, etc.

Last edited by 599gto : 2nd January 2015 at 13:57.
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Old 2nd January 2015, 14:18   #37
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

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Originally Posted by racingmachine View Post
... I also want to get new wiring done for both front and rear speakers. Is it expensive? How much should it cost and what type of wiring should be used? Need a new antenna as well. ...
If you are not putting in an amplifier, you really don't have to get new wiring done unless your car is more than 20 years old and the insulation is crumbling and falling away. The existing harness keeps things simple from the HU to the speakers.

Were you having problems with the existing antenna? If so, add an internal 'T' antenna that fixes just inside the windshield behind the rear view mirror - costs around 300. Or you can think of fixing a electrically-retractable external antenna. If the current antenna didn't give any problems, don't change it - there is nothing that deteriorates over time.
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Old 27th January 2015, 10:32   #38
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Default Re: ICE for the 4th-gen Honda City

Need your inputs. Today morning, after connecting my iPhone 5s to USB port, the head unit is not able to recognize the phone, and flashes 'OLD VER' in the 8-character display. All these days (Since October 2014), it was playing fine, and I could control the music through the car steering controls and head unit controls. I have not updated iPhone's firmware and there is no way I have updated anything on the head unit. I restarted the phone and re-connected and tried other similar measures, but those things have proved fruitless. Any idea about whats wrong? Also, if I were to replace this stock unit, which is a good one to go with? Thanks in advance.
(Car is Honda City V AT 2013 August Model).

Last edited by bsdbsd : 27th January 2015 at 10:34.
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Old 28th January 2015, 17:50   #39
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Default Re: ICE for the 4th-gen Honda City

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... Today morning, after connecting my iPhone 5s to USB port, the head unit is not able to recognize the phone, and flashes 'OLD VER' in the 8-character display. ...
Try with another dock cable. That is usually the failure point in most cases. "OLD VER" simply means that the HU was unable to do a 'handshake' with the phone when it was connected - which can happen if a couple of wires are loose.
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Old 29th January 2015, 04:31   #40
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Default Re: ICE for the 4th-gen Honda City

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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Try with another dock cable. That is usually the failure point in most cases. "OLD VER" simply means that the HU was unable to do a 'handshake' with the phone when it was connected - which can happen if a couple of wires are loose.
Many thanks for your response. Good suggestion and I tried that as well. But I was able to identify the error yesterday night (a few hours back). I mentally worked backwards about what had changed since the last working condition (similar to Windows last known good configuration). After a great deal of debugging, I found that the Music app had mysteriously erased all the songs on it. So, whenever I switched to the USB mode, I presume the HU handshake you have mentioned may have resulted in an NPE (Null Pointer Exception), which is not gracefully handled by the HU. It fails to engage with iPhone further to that, even if you open other music apps (Gaana, Spotify etc). Strange. I just downloaded one song from my previous purchase and ensured that the stock Music app had at least one song and reconnected the USB again. This time it recognized the iPhone and started playing that song immediately. Further to this, it recognized the other apps. What sort of an interface is this? . Anyway, all is good now and I appreciate your response. Hope this helps others in such cases.
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Old 29th January 2015, 13:16   #41
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Default Re: ICE for the 4th-gen Honda City

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... I presume the HU handshake you have mentioned may have resulted in an NPE (Null Pointer Exception), which is not gracefully handled by the HU. ...
LOL That IS graceful exception handling - handling the use case that the iPhone side of USB refused to complete the protocol (can be a hardware issue too).

In all decent embedded systems (an HU is one) there are no run-time Null Pointer Exceptions, since all the use cases are covered in design (there are not too many to handle). Unlike devices where applications (Apps?) can be loaded by the user (or new hardware added), in an HU there is no use cases that can result in an indeterminate state or a pointer that doesn't point to something definite. Some exceptions, especially those that can occur very rarely, are lumped together into one error class.
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Old 29th January 2015, 16:13   #42
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Default Re: ICE for the 4th-gen Honda City

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LOL That IS graceful exception handling - handling the use case that the iPhone side of USB refused to complete the protocol (can be a hardware issue too).
Ok sir. I learnt something new today. But why do you think the other apps were not acknowledged? What I see is that, if the Music app contains nothing, then its the termination case. But all other apps live only when Music app contains something. Dont you think this is too restrictive or faulty. Also, I mentioned NPE just as a situation depictor. It may not really an NPE but something else. But I am glad that outside of this unique circumstance, everything just works.

Also, any "pointers" on which ICE is best for my Honda City at this present time? Thanks in advance.

Last edited by bsdbsd : 29th January 2015 at 16:24.
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Old 29th January 2015, 18:31   #43
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Default Re: ICE for the 4th-gen Honda City

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... But why do you think the other apps were not acknowledged? What I see is that, if the Music app contains nothing, then its the termination case. But all other apps live only when Music app contains something. ...
I am not too sure that the Music App having content is a restriction for the connection (well, it should be, in a way - what will it play otherwise?), but then Apps always do funny things like piggybacking channels.

For example, if you have Google Maps active on your phone and the phone is connected via Bluetooth to the HU, Google Maps establishes a virtual call over BT to make route guidance announcements. This pauses music playback / mutes radio. The connection masquerades as a one-way call over BT from/to your own number.

It is possible that Dhingana(Rdio) / Gaana / Spotify etc. are using the same byte-stream dumping channel as the Music app (without responding to FF/Rew commands in the protocol - since they are internet streams, they only Play or Pause). This means that if the Music app is unable to play because there is no media, nothing else can use that channel. This is my surmise / wild speculation - the real reason could be completely different.

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Originally Posted by bsdbsd View Post
... Also, any "pointers" on which ICE is best for my Honda City at this present time? Thanks in advance.
Plenty of options from Kenwood / JVC / Pioneer / Alpine / Sony. Please check the functionality (and bells & whistles) provided by each model on their websites (most have an India specific website for the models they sell in India), and compare against your list of needs. For example, BT, navigation, time alignment, etc. All the HUs today support iPhones via docking cable (USB). Smartphones via USB is also standard, since they appear as file storage. Good-to-have is App access.

If your current HU is giving you functionality you need currently (there is always a wish list, na!), yet you feel there is something missing in the music, first change the speakers: components in front, coaxials in rear. There is a very large array of options in the market, so it is better that you listen to the options (preferably in a car) before taking a decision on which one to buy. Don't just go by reviews and opinions - your ears are the best judge.
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Old 30th January 2015, 11:35   #44
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Default Re: ICE for the 4th-gen Honda City

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I am not too sure that the Music App having content is a restriction for the connection.
...
It is possible that Dhingana(Rdio) / Gaana / Spotify etc. are using the same byte-stream dumping channel as the Music app (without responding to FF/Rew commands in the protocol - since they are internet streams, they only Play or Pause)......This is my surmise / wild speculation - the real reason could be completely different.
Agree. We dont know the actual reason. But I think Apple must have some protection to address this scenario. Imagine a new iPhone, which has not been synced with Music so far. When that person wants to listen to Spotify/Gaana, the HU never plays it. The person will think either the HU or the iPhone hardware has a problem. I am sure a common man will never understand the root cause. I am thinking of reporting this iOS 7 bug to Apple. Either they can choose to address it or ignore it (Citing a HU issue).

What I have seen so far is that all the apps do not perform as well as the Music app. Either Apple has not exposed the interfaces, or the lazy app devs have not implemented them. In this day and age, its not good to be in this situation wherein there is no uniformity among these apps for standard things (setting up repeat, random,fw, rew,next and prev).

Also, one can forward and rewind internet audio and video streams at one's will. Did you mean something else? I have NOT tried forwarding and rewinding through the car controls, but on the app itself, yes, everything can be done as if they are on local storage. NetFlix is one great example (along with all audio apps).

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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Plenty of options from Kenwood / JVC / Pioneer / Alpine / Sony...

If your current HU is giving you functionality you need currently (there is always a wish list, na!), yet you feel there is something missing in the music, first change the speakers...
Thank you and I will check those options. The issue is I dont know what a Double DIN or a Single DIN player. I have tried to figure it out, but somehow I am not able to understand it. I dont know what my Honda has currently and what I should buy to achieve a plug-and-play replacement. Honda have scared me enough about voiding warranties. Also, what will happen to the front fascia(spelling?). Should I buy a new one? Where will I get it?

Your input on changing speakers is a valid one. I am happy with my current setup except that I can not take calls while driving. A bluetooth setup may go a small way towards addressing that issue. I thought I was done after paying up 12 big ones...you know what I mean!
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Old 30th January 2015, 15:28   #45
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... one can forward and rewind internet audio and video streams at one's will. Did you mean something else? ...
Thanks for enlightening me. Old man's follies - I must have missed something. I have seen 'Prev' and 'Next' working, but not FFD/RWD. Depends on the buffer size, I would think, as the whole media file is not in local storage when the song / video is playing.

I am used to listening to Internet Radio in the car since 2006, so my understanding may be faulty. That was through a Car PC feeding analog output (from an external USB-based DA converter) directly into the Aux-in of the HU.

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... Thank you and I will check those options. The issue is I dont know what a Double DIN or a Single DIN player. ...
If the HU is about 2" high, it is 1DIN. If it is ~4" high or more, it is 2DIN.

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... Honda have scared me enough about voiding warranties. Also, what will happen to the front fascia(spelling?). Should I buy a new one? Where will I get it? ...
You can buy it from dealers, or get it from an ecommerce site. Don't get scared of the Warranty thing - the voiding happens only when there is a major modification or cutting of the OE harness. Replacing OE with aftermarket HU doesn't involve that at all. Interface is standard, and all one needs to fit the new one is to fit a readymade Harness Adapter (available off-the-shelf with dealers / installers) suitable for your car. This adapter routes the HU connections to the appropriate pins of the car's Harness connector.

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... I thought I was done after paying up 12 big ones...you know what I mean!
Ever-changing tech upgrade scenario! The most sensible thing is to differentiate NEEDS from WANTS. BT-based hands-free function is a genuine need.
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