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Old 12th September 2006, 00:28   #136
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Sub - Image Dynamics / hertz / Alpine / Jbl
I would only recommend ID if budget permits and Jbl only.
I didn't get this.
Can you please elaborate on this?
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Old 12th September 2006, 00:37   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ST7677
I didn't get this.
Can you please elaborate on this?
ID make good subs but they come at a price.....

JBL also make good subs and there VFM...thats why everyone install them....if confused and not to spend a lot of money but little money on ICE then go for JBL and u can save money for ur wife 32 inch lcd panel.....
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Old 12th September 2006, 00:47   #138
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I thought so...

What about Hertz and Alpine in comparison with JBL?
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Old 12th September 2006, 00:50   #139
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Originally Posted by ST7677
Came to know that Nakamichi is launched in Bangalore yesterday, their showroom is at Hosur road and they are giving some attractive launch discount! Would try to check out their Amps also.
ST, I am also looking for a nice ICE. Came across a guy who is a nakamichi dealer. He was trying to convince me that they have really good speakers at reasonable costs. Like for example 2-way coax with silk dome tweeter and 1st order butterworth XO, aluminium cone at about 5k. He claimed that those are very good VFM. But I have never heard anything about those at tbhp, so I was little skeptical. In spite of that, since nakamichi was one of the most regarded brand in the past, I can't deny possibility of he telling truth.... Guys, any guidance is welcome!
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Old 12th September 2006, 01:06   #140
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Stay away from current Nakamichi range. Old Nakamichi used to be real good but things have changed drastically.
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Old 12th September 2006, 11:02   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by santosh.s
1st order butterworth XO!
1. most 1st order electrical networks follow the butterworth (or bessel) alignment and 1st order acoustical crossover is not easy to design.
2. listenbefore you buy. Nakamichi is not under the same management.

Last edited by navin : 12th September 2006 at 11:06.
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Old 14th September 2006, 15:22   #142
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What is meant by:
1. "1st order" and
2. "butterworth XO"

In layman's terms what is the benefit to end user?
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Old 14th September 2006, 15:29   #143
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OH NO!!!

*Really big Navin post alert. Really really big Navin Post alert. Code red, code red.*

Dear readers, the explanations of "butterworth and first order" etc will cause spots in front of your eyes. This is normal, do not adjust screen.


I suggest the reply be moved to the "glossary" thread.
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Old 14th September 2006, 17:00   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ST7677
What is meant by:
1. "1st order" and
2. "butterworth XO"

In layman's terms what is the benefit to end user?
ST, I just conveyed what that guy said assuming there might be some significance to it and its been really long since I studied those in college.
If I remember correctly, in layman's terms, "order" has something to do with the slope of the crossover frequency response characteristics, more order means more slope (sharp transition from one freq band to another) I guess. And "butterworth" is a name of scientist after which those designs are named.

As Sam has rightly suggested, we should expect detailed explanation from Navin probably in glossary section. Especially the effect of using different kinds of crossovers in relation to SQ and in turn how to choose among various options (if only they are known to us before making purchase!)

So for or now, I am actually willing to experience those spots in front of my eyes
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Old 14th September 2006, 17:35   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by low_bass_makker
ID make good subs but they come at a price.....
LBM, are ID subs available in indian market? If yes whats the price...
for IDQ and IDMax Series?...

regards,
ant.
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Old 14th September 2006, 18:36   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anToNIcHeN
LBM, are ID subs available in indian market? If yes whats the price...
for IDQ and IDMax Series?...

regards,
ant.
gubir can shed a proper light on this.......as he is a distributer of ID products.....
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Old 15th September 2006, 10:46   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ST7677
What is meant by:
1. "1st order" and
2. "butterworth XO"
In layman's terms what is the benefit to end user?
short explantion:
1st order butterworth (Q = 0.707) XOs have a flat amplitude respone and minimal phase deviation. However these crossovers can only be used with drivers (woofers, tweeters etc..) that are well behaved atleast 2 octaves beyond the "pass band". Hence if a woofer and a tweeter is XOed at 2000Hz the woofer should be well behaved till 8000Hz and the tweeter should be well behaved as low as 500Hz. behaviour includes impedance variations, frequency respone and transient respone anamolies, and phase deviation.

Phase deviation is very noticeable and is often why 1st order Butterworths are used. A 90 degree phase shift results in a -15degree tilt in the vertical coverage pattern if the tweeter and woofer are vertically separated by no more than one wavelength at the crossover frequency (at 2000Hz at 340m/s ths means the C-C distance between tweeter and woofer of 17cm) and if the acoustical depth of the tweeter and woofer are carefully aligned at the crossover frequency.

hope this helps. If you are looking for a longer explanation let us know. I can expound on this topic longer than B&T and LBM can mate :-)

Last edited by navin : 15th September 2006 at 11:17.
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Old 15th September 2006, 10:59   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navin
hope this help. If you are looking for a longer explanation let us know. I can expound on this topic longer than B&T and LBM can mate :-)
the forum is getting dirter every day.....shame on u people....navin ji I did not expected....anyway....here is butterworth....

firstly taken from ....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterworth_filter



here are the slopes....





and different type of linear filters....


for more info use the link above.....very informative.....
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Old 15th September 2006, 11:21   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by low_bass_makker
the forum is getting dirter every day.....shame on u people....navin ji I did not expected....anyway....here is butterworth........
Butterworth for what it's worth is only phase coherrent in 1st order.

LBM, I am sorry. I guess Sam must have slipped some of his genes in the champange at the JBL launch.
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Old 15th September 2006, 11:23   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navin
LBM, I am sorry. I guess Sam must have slipped some of his genes in the champange at the JBL launch.
......................................
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