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Old 16th June 2014, 15:14   #16
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Default Re: Amp & 4 speaker upgrade for Rs. 15000?

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... For the 6.5" Coaxials in the rear door which set should I go for? something by infinity as well?
Yup, Infinity will be good.
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Old 21st June 2014, 10:20   #17
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Default Re: Amp & 4 speaker upgrade for Rs. 15000?

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Yup, Infinity will be good.
DerAlte, I went to that FM Drive place recommended earlier. The man told me that at my budget the difference between something entry level as Pioneer and 'higher-end' Infinity would be minimal and that I should go for Pioneer/JBL products instead. Based on this I've created 2 possible configs that suit my budget(kind of), One with a subwoofer as well:-

Config 1:

Subwoofer:TS-W1208F (300W RMS-1000W Max)

Amplifier:GM-A5602w (450W RMS(1) 150W RMS(2)-900W Max(1) 300W RMS(2)



Config 2:

Speakers Front: TS-A604C OR TS-A1605C (50W RMS-350W Max) / TS-G624C (45W RMS-280W Max)

Speakers Rear: TS-A635 (50W RMS-300W Max)

Amplifier:GM-A6604 (60W RMS(4)-120W Max(4))

All products are Pioneer branded. Just need your and anyone elses final input on these please : ).

Last edited by Maky : 21st June 2014 at 10:24.
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Old 21st June 2014, 21:06   #18
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Default Re: Amp & 4 speaker upgrade for Rs. 15000?

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... The man told me that at my budget the difference between something entry level as Pioneer and 'higher-end' Infinity would be minimal and that I should go for Pioneer/JBL products instead. ...
Smart character this person. He knows people are too lazy to do their own audition and research. And I am sure he didn't demonstrate the difference? He is pulling a fast one. He is pushing what he has - he doesn't want you to buy what you want.

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... Based on this I've created 2 possible configs that suit my budget(kind of), ...
Honestly, sorry, I wouldn't recommend either. Stick to your choice, even if it means going to someone else. If the dealer doesn't give you an audition, move on - not worth buying from such characters.
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Old 22nd June 2014, 13:54   #19
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Default Re: Amp & 4 speaker upgrade for Rs. 15000?

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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Smart character this person. He knows people are too lazy to do their own audition and research. And I am sure he didn't demonstrate the difference? He is pulling a fast one. He is pushing what he has - he doesn't want you to buy what you want.

Honestly, sorry, I wouldn't recommend either. Stick to your choice, even if it means going to someone else. If the dealer doesn't give you an audition, move on - not worth buying from such characters.
Yes, A bit late on reading this.
I installed The components and amplifier mentioned above and some 6x9s on an MDF tray instead of the ones in the rear doors. I really am not satisfied with the sound. In fact I'm really really annoyed having spent 17k with installation on this configuration and getting performance not that much greater than the previous non-amped setup.

I'll go mess with the settings in the HU later to see if I can get an Improvement out of it.
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Old 22nd June 2014, 18:26   #20
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Default Re: Amp & 4 speaker upgrade for Rs. 15000?

The setup you have installed it better buck for the budget,just needs a proper tuning and phase corrections,omit the x-over from the amplifier and set it up from you sony HU,infact there wasnt any use of the amplifier either it does no do more than 18rms on clean signals,most of the amps we have tested on the oscope available here

We can help you out on tuning.Thanx,

Ramie
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Old 22nd June 2014, 20:00   #21
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Default Re: Amp & 4 speaker upgrade for Rs. 15000?

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Originally Posted by Maky View Post
... I really am not satisfied with the sound. In fact I'm really really annoyed having spent 17k with installation on this configuration and getting performance not that much greater than the previous non-amped setup.

I'll go mess with the settings in the HU later to see if I can get an Improvement out of it.
No, please don't. You spent money - go get your money's worth by asking the dealer either to make it sound better, or ask him to change it for better stuff. You should be satisfied without having to tinker yourself.

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Originally Posted by ramie2400 View Post
The setup you have installed it better buck for the budget,just needs a proper tuning and phase corrections, ...
Better buck for the budget? Interesting. How?

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Originally Posted by ramie2400 View Post
... omit the x-over from the amplifier and set it up from you sony HU, ...
Err ... What would be the difference? Electrically there is no difference, right?

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Originally Posted by ramie2400 View Post
... infact there wasnt any use of the amplifier either it does no do more than 18rms on clean signals,most of the amps we have tested on the oscope available here ...
Oh really? Wow! And what what was tested on the oscilloscope? What was the signal source - sine wave or music?
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Old 22nd June 2014, 21:00   #22
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Default Re: Amp & 4 speaker upgrade for Rs. 15000?

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Originally Posted by ramie2400 View Post
The setup you have installed it better buck for the budget,just needs a proper tuning and phase corrections,omit the x-over from the amplifier and set it up from you sony HU,infact there wasnt any use of the amplifier either it does no do more than 18rms on clean signals,most of the amps we have tested on the oscope available here

We can help you out on tuning.Thanx,

Ramie

I'm glad to hear that : ))). I've taken some pictures for you. Perhaps you can help with tuning with these.
I think I've covered all the tuning possibilities on HU level and taken snaps of the sides of the amplifier as well along with some other shots.
The Intention was to run front composites as well as the rear 6x9s on the 4Ch Amp.

Do let me know if there's anything further I can tell you to help you help me : ).
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Old 23rd June 2014, 00:42   #23
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Default Re: Amp & 4 speaker upgrade for Rs. 15000?

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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
No, please don't. You spent money - go get your money's worth by asking the dealer either to make it sound better, or ask him to change it for better stuff. You should be satisfied without having to tinker yourself.

Better buck for the budget? Interesting. How?

Err ... What would be the difference? Electrically there is no difference, right?

Oh really? Wow! And what what was tested on the oscilloscope? What was the signal source - sine wave or music?
What more can one expect in the said budget,atleast the buyer got something original rather him taken for a ride

Electrically there wont be much of a difference,but the hu filters will be much more cleaner than using the filter from the amplifier,from the pics even FM drive guys might be knowing that.

We use sine waves to measure the voltage only,still dynamic power output is different when a music is played mostly remains under 0dB unless we have a requirment to go loud we can overlap,things get easier if the homework is done.No matter basic setup or high-end reference setup if installer dosent know how to measure width,height and depth ofthe soundstage the setup goes for a toss.30% products 70% installation & tuning skill set.

@Macky cant understand why use 2channel,when you can put another RCA and run it for channel seperation?could have gone for a set of component & subwoofer you would have enjoyed more.The component you have installed comes with a inline crossover which is plug and play,but still phase shift happenes when you install even if correct manner,reason sony uses 2nd order butterworth network filter,if you connect your speakers direct to the HU sound will be more cleaner.

Ramie
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Old 23rd June 2014, 10:34   #24
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Default Re: Amp & 4 speaker upgrade for Rs. 15000?

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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
No, please don't. You spent money - go get your money's worth by asking the dealer either to make it sound better, or ask him to change it for better stuff. You should be satisfied without having to tinker yourself.

DerAlte, I'm not going back to the guy I installed it from, who is different than the people I purchased it from. My previous experience with the installer was great but this last installation just wow....

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramie2400 View Post
@Macky cant understand why use 2channel,when you can put another RCA and run it for channel seperation?could have gone for a set of component & subwoofer you would have enjoyed more.The component you have installed comes with a inline crossover which is plug and play,but still phase shift happenes when you install even if correct manner,reason sony uses 2nd order butterworth network filter,if you connect your speakers direct to the HU sound will be more cleaner.

Ramie
I have to be honest and admit I did not understand a word of what you just said : ). Nothing I can do to significantly Improve the sound on my end? or I must go to some people and pay more.
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Old 23rd June 2014, 10:39   #25
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Default Re: Amp & 4 speaker upgrade for Rs. 15000?

Actually you dont need to,just damping the front door properly adding an rca and tuning will do up the job for you

Ramie
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Old 23rd June 2014, 13:05   #26
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Default Re: Amp & 4 speaker upgrade for Rs. 15000?

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... I'm not going back to the guy I installed it from, who is different than the people I purchased it from. My previous experience with the installer was great but this last installation just wow. ...
Reminds me of the Hindi saying "Boya ped babool ka, aam kahan se hoye"! Arrey baba, this is not the installer's fault (he probably sensibly didn't try to fiddle much and spoil it). The stuff that you bought is a couple of levels lower than the other aftermarket ICE stuff that is available (JBL, Infinity, Morel, Bull etc.). Funniest part is they didn't cost any less than the others. For the same price, you could have bought Infinity Reference components, a Kenwood or JBL 4 channel amp, and JBL 6x9s. 'Nuff said, let me not rub salt on your wounds. Commiserations!

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What more can one expect in the said budget,atleast the buyer got something original rather him taken for a ride ...
Honestly, that is a very strange sentiment that you expressed. What is wrong in expecting a good output (sound stage, instrument separation, decent low-end) in that budget? And getting original stuff is not difficult, unless one is really ignorant and doesn't know good from bad.

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Electrically there wont be much of a difference,but the hu filters will be much more cleaner than using the filter from the amplifier, ...
If there is no difference electrically, how will the HU filter be 'cleaner'? Or is 'cleaner' not an electrical property? Woo-woo!

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Originally Posted by ramie2400 View Post
We use sine waves to measure the voltage only,still dynamic power output is different when a music is played mostly remains under 0dB ...
Paaji, I asked about what you do with the oscilloscope. No wonder @maky didn't understand. No offense, but even I am finding it difficult to separate fact from woo-woo / fiction.
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Old 24th June 2014, 00:31   #27
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Default Re: Amp & 4 speaker upgrade for Rs. 15000?

Yaa the things what you all arent able to do we do besides google knowledge.
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Old 24th June 2014, 12:15   #28
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Default Re: Amp & 4 speaker upgrade for Rs. 15000?

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Originally Posted by ramie2400 View Post
Electrically there wont be much of a difference,but the hu filters will be much more cleaner than using the filter from the amplifier,from the pics even FM drive guys might be knowing that.

@Macky cant understand why use 2channel,when you can put another RCA and run it for channel seperation?could have gone for a set of component & subwoofer you would have enjoyed more.The component you have installed comes with a inline crossover which is plug and play,but still phase shift happenes when you install even if correct manner,reason sony uses 2nd order butterworth network filter,if you connect your speakers direct to the HU sound will be more cleaner.
There is adequate electrical differences between filters (and also their shielding). Two active filters having the same transfer function might differ if different op-amps used, different topology is used, etc.

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Yaa the things what you all arent able to do we do besides google knowledge.
Ramie, I would take umbrage at that statement. Both DA and I have enough practical experience to be told that (I follow most threads on ICE and chip in only when I believe I need to). We are open to correction with reason and rationale but blanket statements like that serve little purpose.

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Originally Posted by Maky View Post
The man told me that at my budget the difference between something entry level as Pioneer and 'higher-end' Infinity would be minimal and that I should go for Pioneer/JBL products instead.
1. Please ask your dealer for an audition. A good dealer will usually have a car or 2 with installs done or almost done. If you cannot audition at a dealer, ask friends. It makes little sense buying equipment without YOUR ears knowing what you might be getting.

2. Pioneer is better known for electronics not necessarily for their speakers.
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Old 24th June 2014, 12:45   #29
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Default Re: Amp & 4 speaker upgrade for Rs. 15000?

Alright guys. Since I know very little. I have a question related to my problems.

Can I use the Amplifier I have purchased to power one single Subwoofer(Enclosed) Instead? i.e. all 4 channels on that amplifier to power one single Subwoofer such as this or this one here?

My Amplifier rates at:
Wattage RMS (4 ohms <= 1 % THD+N) - 60 W x 4

Wattage RMS (2  <= 1 % THD+N) - 90 W x 4

Wattage RMS Bridged (4 ) - 180 W x 2
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Old 24th June 2014, 14:31   #30
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Default Re: Amp & 4 speaker upgrade for Rs. 15000?

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... Can I use the Amplifier I have purchased to power one single Subwoofer(Enclosed) Instead? i.e. all 4 channels on that amplifier to power one single Subwoofer such as this or this one here? ...
Well, yes and no.

No, because the subs you have pointed to are single voice coil subs, and you can't drive the same voice coil with two bridged amp channels connected in parallel. Yes, if you use a dual voice coil sub with each coil 4 ohms - each coil being driven by one pair of channels bridged.

BUT, more than that -
* If you strongly amp the sub and keep the components on the HU amp, it will be difficult to tune the system - one can't individually adjust front and rear gains at the HU amp. One has to use the Fader to do that, but that is not the same as tuning front and rear independently.

It is better to power the components from the Pio amp front (Ch A) so that one can tune the gain w.r.t. the Rear or Sub. Front should be slightly louder than the rear (you should have to bend backwards into the rear area to hear the rear speakers), and the sub you can tune such that you should be able to detect the absence more than it's presence

* The Pio 6x9 coaxials are not bad at all, and will give a decent bass response. Not a lot bass like a sub, but one can't say 'no bass' (if there is no bass right now, the problem could be out of phase wiring. Difficult to do since the pins at the 6x9 are different for + and -, yet some installers manage to defeat even that by not noticing the wire marking for + and -)

* The ported subs you pointed to generally give very loose boomy bass, which will disturb you. If you want to buy a sub, look for a sealed sub.with a 4 ohms single voice coil one. Power it from the bridged rear pair of channels (Ch B) of the Pio amp. If you do that, you can power the 6x9s from the HU Rear outputs

Nothing is lost. Perhaps it would be nice if you could get together with Ramie-paaji so that he can try tuning it. Just try it, before spending more money.

Last edited by DerAlte : 24th June 2014 at 14:35.
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