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Old 24th June 2014, 15:54   #31
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Default Re: Amp & 4 speaker upgrade for Rs. 15000?

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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
* The ported subs you pointed to generally give very loose boomy bass, which will disturb you. If you want to buy a sub, look for a sealed sub.with a 4 ohms single voice coil one. Power it from the bridged rear pair of channels (Ch B) of the Pio amp. If you do that, you can power the 6x9s from the HU Rear outputs
Can you recommend one? Cheap and would be mingle well with my amp?
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Old 24th June 2014, 16:23   #32
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Default Re: Amp & 4 speaker upgrade for Rs. 15000?

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Can you recommend one? Cheap and would be mingle well with my amp?
1. Blaupunkt GTB1200 http://www.snapdeal.com/product/blau...sc-with/651047
2. JBL CS1215B - 12" Subwoofer Box Enclosure
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Old 24th June 2014, 17:47   #33
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Default Re: Amp & 4 speaker upgrade for Rs. 15000?

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1. Blaupunkt GTB1200 http://www.snapdeal.com/product/blau...sc-with/651047
2. JBL CS1215B - 12" Subwoofer Box Enclosure
Thanks.

Tell me, Would having a sub where 2 coils are powered by 4 channels of this amplifier Vs. Having a sub with a single coil which is powered by 2 channels of my amplifier provide twice the 'kick'?.
In theory, It seems to me it should but just wondering if that's the case or not . If not, perhaps a better route would be to go two channels on sub & two on 6X9s.
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Old 24th June 2014, 18:12   #34
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Default Re: Amp & 4 speaker upgrade for Rs. 15000?

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... but just wondering ...
Sometimes one shouldn't. Difficult to answer such expressions without a complete expression of the motive.

Perhaps you have not read what I have written earlier:
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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
... If you strongly amp the sub and keep the components on the HU amp, it will be difficult to tune the system - one can't individually adjust front and rear gains at the HU amp. One has to use the Fader to do that, but that is not the same as tuning front and rear independently.

It is better to power the components from the Pio amp front (Ch A) so that one can tune the gain w.r.t. the Rear or Sub. Front should be slightly louder than the rear (you should have to bend backwards into the rear area to hear the rear speakers), and the sub you can tune such that you should be able to detect the absence more than it's presence ...
You have a 4 channel amplifier. Choose wisely what you want to do with those 4 channels, rather than having a single focus on bass. Keep it simple and conventional.
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Old 25th June 2014, 09:23   #35
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Default Re: Amp & 4 speaker upgrade for Rs. 15000?

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Yes, A bit late on reading this.
I installed The components and amplifier mentioned above and some 6x9s on an MDF tray instead of the ones in the rear doors. I really am not satisfied with the sound. In fact I'm really really annoyed having spent 17k with installation on this configuration and getting performance not that much greater than the previous non-amped setup.

I'll go mess with the settings in the HU later to see if I can get an Improvement out of it.

People never understand the importance of auditioning and blindly follow someone's suggestions, I am noticing it in this forum also. Nobody can recommend a setup which suits someone as the music taste is different for each individual.

For the current situation, I would have gone for the best out of the following options (assuming you are going for a sub, dont go for any dual coils just for the amp, nothing will happen even if you dont use the 2nd bridged channel, rather it will give more headroom for the sub connected to the other channel unless the power supplies are different for each channel):

- Power the fronts with the Amp's Ch-1 (L and R), bridge Ch-2 for sub and power rears with the HU(if the option is available in the HU) only as a filler.

- Power the fronts with another good 2channel amp, rears with Ch-1 (L and R) and bridge Ch-2 for sub

Speakers are still a bottleneck, but change it later if reqd.

Since the HU has the Xover settings, compare its xover tuning by skipping the amp's xover. It may be better than the amp's active circuit as the HU does the xover in the digital domain itself using its DSP even before the analog conversion, provided the HU has a good DSP.

Last edited by ::CMS:: : 25th June 2014 at 09:28.
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Old 25th June 2014, 11:14   #36
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Default Re: Amp & 4 speaker upgrade for Rs. 15000?

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People never understand the importance of auditioning and blindly follow someone's suggestions, I am noticing it in this forum also. Nobody can recommend a setup which suits someone as the music taste is different for each individual.

For the current situation, I would have gone for the best out of the following options (assuming you are going for a sub, dont go for any dual coils just for the amp, nothing will happen even if you dont use the 2nd bridged channel, rather it will give more headroom for the sub connected to the other channel unless the power supplies are different for each channel):

- Power the fronts with the Amp's Ch-1 (L and R), bridge Ch-2 for sub and power rears with the HU(if the option is available in the HU) only as a filler.
If I do not go for dual coil sub for the reason you have mentioned. Which single coil sub(enclosed) would you recommend then. I think the one Der Alte advised on was dual.
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Old 25th June 2014, 11:22   #37
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Default Re: Amp & 4 speaker upgrade for Rs. 15000?

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If I do not go for dual coil sub for the reason you have mentioned. Which single coil sub(enclosed) would you recommend then. I think the one Der Alte advised on was dual.
As far as I know Blaupunkt GTB1200 and JBL CS1215B are not dual coil subs. Moreover good dual coil subs are pretty expensive.

Last edited by ::CMS:: : 25th June 2014 at 11:24.
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Old 25th June 2014, 12:17   #38
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Default Re: Amp & 4 speaker upgrade for Rs. 15000?

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As far as I know Blaupunkt GTB1200 and JBL CS1215B are not dual coil subs. Moreover good dual coil subs are pretty expensive.
Hmmm...

What exactly when looking at the specifications of a subwoofer tells you it's dual coil or single? I'll can go google various subwoofers myself If I have this information.
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Old 25th June 2014, 12:20   #39
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Default Re: Amp & 4 speaker upgrade for Rs. 15000?

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Hmmm...

What exactly when looking at the specifications of a subwoofer tells you it's dual coil or single? I'll can go google various subwoofers myself If I have this information.
It may be difficult for you to find from the specs. The description will say its dual and will have 4 terminals instead of 2 (single voice coil)
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Old 25th June 2014, 14:34   #40
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Default Re: Amp & 4 speaker upgrade for Rs. 15000?

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... What exactly when looking at the specifications of a subwoofer tells you it's dual coil or single? ...
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Originally Posted by ::CMS:: View Post
It may be difficult for you to find from the specs. The description will say its dual and will have 4 terminals instead of 2 (single voice coil)
It is always written in specs.

1. Dual coil subs are seldom sold pre-finished, i.e. already mounted in a box

2. The impedance of the sub is mentioned in the specs as 4 ohms + 4 ohms, or 2 ohms + 2 ohms etc. as opposed to 4 ohms or 2 ohms in the case of a single voice coil sub

3. Not all DVC subs come with 4 terminals (most do). Infinity Kappa 120.9 has only 2 terminals, and a switch that allows one to select 2 ohms or 4 ohms impedance

4. Very few amps are rated for 1 ohm load. Most are rated for 2 ohms. One has to be really careful when selecting / ordering a DVC sub. For example, if one gets a 4+4 ohms DVC sub and wires the voice coils in parallel, one gets 2 ohms. Now, if this is bridged across 2 channels of an amp, each channel of the amp will see 1 ohm as the load - which may overload the amp. If wired in parallel, it is better to use a mono amp rated for load <=1 ohm
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Old 25th June 2014, 15:10   #41
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Default Re: Amp & 4 speaker upgrade for Rs. 15000?

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It is always written in specs.
I never said its not in the specs, it may be difficult for the OP to confirm it from the specs. Switched subs are not true dual coil subs, once selected, it works like a single coil, the use case of duals is entirely different than that.
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Old 25th June 2014, 15:24   #42
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Default Re: Amp & 4 speaker upgrade for Rs. 15000?

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I never said its not in the specs, it may be difficult for the OP to confirm it from the specs. ...
Whenever someone asks, it is easier to point out what and where to expect in the specs, instead of making an assumption that it will be difficult to locate in the specs or understand.

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... Switched subs are not true dual coil subs, once selected, it works like a single coil, the use case of duals is entirely different than that.
So dual coil subs work differently - by carrying two different signals perhaps? And how do switched 'untrue' dual coil subs work?
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Old 25th June 2014, 15:55   #43
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Default Re: Amp & 4 speaker upgrade for Rs. 15000?

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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
3. Not all DVC subs come with 4 terminals (most do). Infinity Kappa 120.9 has only 2 terminals, and a switch that allows one to select 2 ohms or 4 ohms impedance
FYI, technically the 120.9 is a triple voice coil sub. It has 3 1.4ohm coils that are switched to 4.2ohm and 2.1 ohms (1.4 + 0.7). More details here
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/produc...-review-2.html

Ok I was just being stupid.

Last edited by navin : 25th June 2014 at 15:56.
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Old 25th June 2014, 16:04   #44
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Default Re: Amp & 4 speaker upgrade for Rs. 15000?

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Whenever someone asks, it is easier to point out what and where to expect in the specs, instead of making an assumption that it will be difficult to locate in the specs or understand.
People are asking questions to get answers than confusing them by pointing to specs, atleast in my case.

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So dual coil subs work differently - by carrying two different signals perhaps? And how do switched 'untrue' dual coil subs work?
Please educate me how to biamp (same spec amps and level matched to avoid any difference that can lead to distortion) a switchable impedance sub. Dont comeback saying that there is no benefit in biamping a DVC sub.

Last edited by ::CMS:: : 25th June 2014 at 16:16.
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Old 25th June 2014, 16:19   #45
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Default Re: Amp & 4 speaker upgrade for Rs. 15000?

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People are asking questions to get answers than confusing them by pointing to specs, atleast in my case. ..
Correct, so saying "It may be difficult for you to find from the specs" is an answer on those lines, you think? Did someone confuse you by pointing to specs?

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... Please educate me how to biamp a switchable impedance sub. Dont comeback saying that there is no benefit in biamping a DVC sub.
I don't have to answer your question - we would both be deviating from the topic, and we expect you to recognize that yourself. @Maky's requirement is that of a simple sub to be used with a simple amp. Bi-amping is taking things too far, especially since he wouldn't have any channels left in his Pio 4-channel amp to drive the components with. Or did you expect him to sell that and get a 6-channel amp?

It is not a good idea to know the answer and then try to belittle others - for the sake of proving that you are an 'expert'.
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