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Old 21st August 2014, 12:21   #76
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Default Re: Amp & 4 speaker upgrade for Rs. 15000?

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Originally Posted by navin View Post
I prefer to use the XO in the amplifier as many HUs lose their settings when the car goes for service. So you can set your HU to All pass and use XO of Amplifer only. But yes your understand is right if say the HU is 120Hz/12db and the amplifier is 200Hz/18db then the effective electrical slope will add will be 120db/12db till 200Hz after which it will be 200Hz/30db (12+18).
I double checked on this. I'm pretty sure that this specific HU doesn't allow me to turn it off LPF on HU end or in other words Pass all frequencies as you said. It forces me to close a LPF setting. HPF strangely can be turned completely off on HU though.

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I am talking of the amps power supply not the car's. The area where most amps skimp is the power supply. Many amps may be rated to 50W rms x 4 channels driven (20-20khz, 0.1% dist, etc....) but when you try to drive all channels to 50W they give up because the power supply is 120-150W and runs out of steam. Unfortunately most companies don't document this so we have to rely on experience and current reputation of the company's products.
I see, so nothing to be done here except rely on a quality product. Oh well....


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Yes a 4GA kit will help a lot. It means you lose less power in the wires and more is available at the amp.
Great. Please some recommendations on this as well .
Also, I do not trust ebay sellers or local brick and mortar audio stores when it comes to wiring. I think counterfeit products, especially wiring, is rampant.
Can snap deal be trusted? or flipkart?


Ah! and another quesiton navin, What does it mean when one says '30hz tuned box'?.

Last edited by Maky : 21st August 2014 at 12:36.
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Old 21st August 2014, 13:24   #77
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Default Re: Amp & 4 speaker upgrade for Rs. 15000?

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It forces me to close a LPF setting. HPF strangely can be turned completely off on HU though.

Great. Please some recommendations on this as well .

Ah! and another quesiton navin, What does it mean when one says '30hz tuned box'?.
That is odd. I never seen a HU force you to choose a LPF. What if you were using just 4 full range coax speakers?

You can get some decent wire in the market. I have found good ISI grade power cables from companies like Finolex works well too. Don't look at the diameter of the cable (many cos cover a little wire with a whole lot of plastic). TBHPian Low Bass Maker has a thread on this somewhere (cant find it at this moment). I have never used the internet for such stuff. I like to see and feel - kya karun I am old and old fashioned.

A-ha see a woofer has a Fs (resonant frequency) which is the frequency at which the woofer's cone will move in the gap (in free air). Think of the cone as a piece of weight and the suspension of the woofer as a spring. Now when you pull the weight down the weight will bounce back up and then bounce with a certain frequency. That is resonance. Any weighted object (a woofer's cone may be 100gms in weight) suspended by any sprung method (leaf, coil, etc..) will have a particular resonance frequency dependent on the weight of the object and the compliance of the spring mechanism.

Now when you put a woofer in a box the air mass behind the woofer changes the "sprung condition" and the "effective spring" is different from free air (aka no box). So the woofer will resonance at a different frequency this is called Fb and is the frequency the woofer-box system is tuned to.

Typically Fb > Fs or the system is not stable and the woofer can be damaged by being pushed too hard. A well designed box acts like a bit of a safety net protecting a woofer from being drive too hard (within reasonable limits of course). There is a link I found (don't know who sent it to me) that I have put on the Ask the Gurus thread. I might explain better than I did.

I hope this helps. CMS and other gurus, I have left out exceptions and details to focus on a simple explanation so lets not nickel and dime this.

Last edited by navin : 21st August 2014 at 13:46.
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Old 21st August 2014, 15:50   #78
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Default Re: Amp & 4 speaker upgrade for Rs. 15000?

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4 gauge wiring?

If you love DIY, you can get better power cables 4awg cables from finolex (not so flexible as the branded, but you will get a better cable for less price), I bought a 5mtr 4awg cable for ~1000/- and the end copper terminals for ~50/- each. For RCA, get good OFC cables and if possible, keep the 4 channel amp near to the HU as much as possible to reduce the analog path (under the seats is a good idea, if any way you can accomodate near the dash, far better).

I am using pure 6N pure silver audio cables and .5 mtr OFC VanDenHul cables assembled myself using silver solder, even though the setup I am talking about is slightly different than the normal car audio setups, I just wanted to highlight these cables are far far better than the branded car audio cables, no interference, no ground loop issues.. nothing.

Moreover the thread title doesnt match with the current ICE plan.

Last edited by ::CMS:: : 21st August 2014 at 15:53.
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Old 21st August 2014, 17:21   #79
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Default Re: Amp & 4 speaker upgrade for Rs. 15000?

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... the thread title doesnt match with the current ICE plan.
It seldom does in the ICE section - it is rather infamous for that. There are always well-meaning people around to help one achieve that.
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Old 21st August 2014, 18:09   #80
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Default Re: Amp & 4 speaker upgrade for Rs. 15000?

Forget the rear coaxials, they are a waste of money. Get a flat subwoofer, this will come compete with its' own powered enclosure and will fit right under either of the front seats. There are a few models from Hertz in our markets, look around and you are bound to find them.

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I'm sure you're right but this is the car I use often for office work and space is an issue. Sadly out of my hands.

For the 6.5" Coaxials in the rear door which set should I go for? something by infinity as well?
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Old 22nd August 2014, 12:56   #81
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Default Re: Amp & 4 speaker upgrade for Rs. 15000?

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It seldom does in the ICE section - it is rather infamous for that. There are always well-meaning people around to help one achieve that.
Yes I've noticed this reading around here. What is this about : P!
I started with 15k budget. I've already exceeded that and will possibly end up spending an additional 50k o.O

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Forget the rear coaxials, they are a waste of money. Get a flat subwoofer, this will come compete with its' own powered enclosure and will fit right under either of the front seats. There are a few models from Hertz in our markets, look around and you are bound to find them.
I did think about those early on but now my intentions are to get a proper sub setup going.
Also, many people(mostly dealers) told me that those subs absolutely nothing compared to even a cheap Free-Air Sub powered by an small amp when it comes to bass.

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That is odd....
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If you love DIY...

Guys, I was thinking.
Instead of the Sundown SA-12 Sub upgrade I mentioned, If I upgrade front components, place a free-air subwoofer on the tray and run those off the current 4CH amp and the new mono block for the current Subwoofer. Would that be a more 'balanced' setup instead of SA-12 upgrade only? I'm concerned the bass may "over-power" the vocals or be out of balance in some way.

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Old 22nd August 2014, 13:13   #82
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Default Re: Amp & 4 speaker upgrade for Rs. 15000?

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Yes I've noticed this reading around here. What is this about : P! ...
The infamy is totally unjustified, though it just happens that suggestions by others do sway the mind of some who find it difficult to make up their minds. If one is clear about what one wants, this doesn't happen, and suggestions are also quite appropriate. Human nature!

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... Instead of the Sundown SA-12 Sub upgrade I mentioned, If I upgrade front components, place a free-air subwoofer on the tray and run those off the current 4CH amp and the new mono block for the current Subwoofer. Would that be a more 'balanced' setup instead of SA-12 upgrade only? I'm concerned the bass may "over-power" the vocals or be out of balance in some way.
DON'T! Free air subs are terribly boomy, and - you guessed it right - will overpower the music. You will feel like jumping out of the car and running away screaming "Aiiiiiiieeeeeeeeee"! Seriously. Get a good light sub like a JBL CS, Infinity Ref or Polk, and run it off the rear channels of the 4 channel amp. The dealer should be able to demo it in your car.
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Old 22nd August 2014, 14:06   #83
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Default Re: Amp & 4 speaker upgrade for Rs. 15000?

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Also, many people(mostly dealers) told me that those subs absolutely nothing compared to even a cheap Free-Air Sub powered by an small amp when it comes to bass.

Would that be a more 'balanced' setup instead of SA-12 upgrade only? I'm concerned the bass may "over-power" the vocals or be out of balance in some way.
Free air subwoofers, especially in a car, sacrifice efficiency (volume) for tight bass (quality). Free air subwoofers have their applications but not in quality car audio set ups.

You can always control the relative level of a subwoofer by turning down the gains of the amplifier so that it does not overpower the vocals. They way "I like" to tune a subwoofer is that it's absence is noticed but it's presence is not. Some prefer a more in your face bass, especially those who like trance, house, and modern electronic music. It is a matter of personal choice. Your Ears, Your Music, Your money, remember?

Sure listen to DLS, Rainbow, Infinity, and more. The more you listen the more informed your choice will be and the better you will understand what goes into producing a balanced system.
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Old 22nd August 2014, 14:36   #84
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Default Re: Amp & 4 speaker upgrade for Rs. 15000?

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DON'T! Free air subs are terribly boomy
Quote:
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Free air subwoofers, especially in a car, sacrifice efficiency (volume) for tight bass (quality).
Maky is confused O_O...

...but I guess both of you don't recommend Free-Air Subs. Might as well skip then, don't think I'd be able to put a 12" one on the parcel tray of the Swift anyways.

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Old 22nd August 2014, 15:45   #85
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Default Re: Amp & 4 speaker upgrade for Rs. 15000?

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Maky is confused O_O...

don't think I'd be able to put a 12" one on the parcel tray of the Swift anyways.
A free air bass is very efficient as it uses the whole trunk for it's cabinet but in most cases the quality of bass is not great. Usually it is very boomy, partly because the trunk cannot be damped adequately, partly because the trunk is not leak proof (when it comes to air leakages), and partly because of the design of the woofer itself (the designer does not know the size of the trunk and this can vary greatly -compare that of Skoda Octavia to that of a Swift).

The parcel tray of the Swift will at best hold a pair of 6x9s.
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Old 22nd August 2014, 17:06   #86
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... partly because the trunk is not leak proof (when it comes to air leakages) ...
There is a big hole (or a set of smaller holes) at the bottom below the spare tyre which are meant for draining water.
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Old 22nd January 2015, 11:55   #87
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Default Re: Amp & 4 speaker upgrade for Rs. 15000?

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Well you could try adding blaupunkt gtb 8a active woofer. Good sound for an 8 incher and costs only 7500 rs from snapdeal. Been using it for a couple of months now. Thoroughly satisfied. Not for audiophiles though
Hey Guneet.

I am looking to buy the same sub for my SX4.

How's the ownership experience till date? Getting it for 6850 from snapdeal. Is it worth the price?

And any specific reasons for saying - "not for audiophiles" ?!
Does it lack the sound quality or the punch?

Thanks in advance.
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Old 22nd January 2015, 12:07   #88
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Hi Aston
The sub is great. Atleast I'm thoroughly satisfied. But I'm using it in a swift and being a smaller car it gives good sound. Has enough punch as well. Cant say if the same effect would come in a bigger car.
All in all a great buy for the price.
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Old 22nd January 2015, 12:28   #89
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Default Re: Amp & 4 speaker upgrade for Rs. 15000?

Thanks Guneet.

Well the SX4 from the inside is not that big either so I think it should work fine. I have decent amount of bass at the moment with my Infinity Reference speakers but I think the lower end punch could be better with an addition of a subwoofer.

The reason I'm inclined towards this is cause it comes with a pre-fitted amp and that saves me a ton of money. Also the installation of this seems pretty simple and straight-forward.
So all I need is a RCA wire to connect it to the HU, right?
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Old 22nd January 2015, 13:11   #90
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Well it has both RCA and high level input. Installation is easy too. I've connected it with rear speaker output as I have the OE headunit from the swift zdi version and jbl components front and back. The headunit is without rca output. And yes it is actually value for money and a space saver too.
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