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Old 24th August 2014, 23:54   #1
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Default ICE DIY in a Tata Indica Xeta: JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer & Sony

Hello guys,

I have a very old Tata Indica Xeta which I use mostly only during the weekends. It had a very old Sony Xplod setup (Head Unit + 6x9 Coaxial + 4-inch Coaxial in the dash). The display of the head unit had failed and I used to guess what option might be on the inactive display, if i ever wanted to change/adjust something. Simple thing like adjusting fader or setting the equalizer was a trial and error method and used to take a lot of time. Sometimes I used to give up and still continue to listen to whatever was playing and however it was playing.

Now I should mention here (if it's not clear already) that I am in no way an audiophile. But i do enjoy music. I used to think the setup I had sounded good. I was satisfied with it.

I joined Team-BHP and was introduced to the ICE section. It interested me a lot and i soon found out the vast options that were available in car audio.

I decided to upgrade my car audio, step by step and whenever the finance allowed me to. So, after reading a lot on this forum, I gave it a try the DIY way.

Now, the choices that I made were based on the following facts:
1. I am not an audiophile but like to hear decent sound quality out of my car audio.
2. Extremely tight on the budget. I use my car once in a week for couple of hours, so didn't want to spend too much money on ICE.

But I wanted to experience the new things I learned here. I wanted to experience component speakers, bass from a subwoofer and a head unit which can give some decent output.

Also I didn't upgrade the equipment all at once. Here is how it went.

The head unit:
I was tired of the guess work I had to do with my old Sony head unit because of the failed display. I also wanted to have Bluetooth connectivity to talk on the phone while driving. Now, I changed the head unit before I was introduced to the vast universe of ICE.
The head unit that appealed to me at the time was the Pioneer MVH-355BT. It cost me 5K. I did not even consider how many pre-amp outputs were there or whatever I needed to consider to build a nice ICE. I had no knowledge of the subject. It had Bluetooth, it played music through USB, it had a tuner and it fitted in my budget. I bought it. Later, I realized it had a single set of pre-amp.

Well, things were fine for many days until one day i started reading the ICE section of Team-BHP. I started to gather knowledge about the various equipment and the sound options available and how passionately people select each and every item and how much perfection they try to achieve.

I wanted to experience a little bit of this world.

I decided to add a subwoofer and my search for it began.

The subwoofer:
The criteria for selecting the subwoofer was as follows -
1. It should be small, since I didn't want to dedicate too much space for it.
2. It should be cheap for the reasons stated earlier.
3. Wanted a tight bass not too much boom boom.

I came across an advertisement on OLX that someone wanted to sell an 8-inch Blaupunkt active subwoofer along with wiring for 4K. It was a Blaupunkt EMB 800A. I auditioned it and was satisfied with it. It had a built in amplifier which supported my 'tight' budget point. The only change I made was that i used a Scosche RCA cable to connect the subwoofer instead of the RCA that the seller gave me.

I was very happy with this setup. Some of you may say, "How can Sony Xplod speakers and an active sub be called a good setup?"

But hey, i am not too much about the equipment. I enjoy the music and am easily satisfied.

Now, even though I was satisfied with what I had, I felt the 4-inch speakers in the dash were very weak compared to the 6x9 Coaxials on the tray and subwoofer at back. The sound was mostly at the back.I lived with that for a while.

Then, one fine day I started to understand the importance of component speakers.
I thought, they might improve the sound in the front. So my search to find component speakers started along with a 2 channel amplifier to drive them.

Component Speakers:
Criteria for selection -
1. 5.25-inch mid range drivers because Indica door panels can accommodate only that size without modifications. I did not want to make any modifications. Just wanted to keep it simple. I realized I won't be achieving much bass through them, but I was not looking for it, since I had sufficient bass from the subwoofer and the 6x9s.
2. It should be value for money because of tight budget.

I saw a great deal on Snapdeal for JBL CS-5C. They were for Rs. 2961/-. I bought them and Snapdeal delivered quickly and with nice packaging.

Amplifier:
I wanted to improve the sound in front. So, to drive the components, I was in search of a 2-channel amplifier. Again, i found a nice deal on Snapdeal - Blaupunkt EMA 255 2 Channel amplifier for Rs. 3123/-. So components + amplifier cost me Rs. 6084/- with shipping (which was free).

Amplifier wiring kit:
Many of you would call it a bad idea, but I went with a cheap 8-gauge amplifier kit bought from eBay for Rs. 600/-. The brand was Boss and it was quite OK in quality. It came with everything that was necessary for the installation.

So far so good.

DIY stuff:

Many thanks to the thread 'DIY Guide : How to remove door panels - Tata Indica' by Aditya Munshi.

The rest of the story is through pictures. The First set of pictures is of the amplifier, the speakers, wiring kit and the crimping tool (Jainson Samrat) I used. Enjoy!
Attached Thumbnails
ICE DIY in a Tata Indica Xeta: JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer & Sony-20140821_192518.jpg  

ICE DIY in a Tata Indica Xeta: JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer & Sony-20140821_192534.jpg  

ICE DIY in a Tata Indica Xeta: JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer & Sony-20140821_192546.jpg  

ICE DIY in a Tata Indica Xeta: JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer & Sony-20140821_192821.jpg  

ICE DIY in a Tata Indica Xeta: JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer & Sony-20140822_191526.jpg  

ICE DIY in a Tata Indica Xeta: JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer & Sony-20140822_192033.jpg  

ICE DIY in a Tata Indica Xeta: JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer & Sony-20140822_193310.jpg  

ICE DIY in a Tata Indica Xeta: JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer & Sony-20140822_193820.jpg  

ICE DIY in a Tata Indica Xeta: JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer & Sony-20140822_194446.jpg  

ICE DIY in a Tata Indica Xeta: JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer & Sony-20140822_194502.jpg  


Last edited by Aditya : 25th August 2014 at 15:29.
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Old 25th August 2014, 09:53   #2
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Default re: ICE DIY in a Tata Indica Xeta: JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer & Sony

These set of pictures show the connection details, dimensions, tweeter mounting options and heat shrink wrapped crossovers along with wiring.

More pics will follow...(my posts first go to moderation...please wait for a while)
Attached Thumbnails
ICE DIY in a Tata Indica Xeta: JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer & Sony-20140822_204508.jpg  

ICE DIY in a Tata Indica Xeta: JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer & Sony-20140822_204233.jpg  

ICE DIY in a Tata Indica Xeta: JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer & Sony-20140822_204307.jpg  

ICE DIY in a Tata Indica Xeta: JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer & Sony-20140822_204238.jpg  

ICE DIY in a Tata Indica Xeta: JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer & Sony-20140822_204241.jpg  

ICE DIY in a Tata Indica Xeta: JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer & Sony-20140823_111659.jpg  

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Old 25th August 2014, 10:36   #3
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Default re: ICE DIY in a Tata Indica Xeta: JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer & Sony

I had decided to position the amplifier under the passenger seat. In order to minimize my efforts, i decided to remove the RCA cable from the subwoofer and give it to the amplifier input. Then i connected another RCA cable to RCA out (line out) of the amplifier to give audio signal to the Subwoofer. The crossover took place at the sub woofer since it had built in amplifier for itself with necessary settings. In short, i dint use the high level signal which was possible as an input to the 2 channel amplifier. This saved me opening the headunit and also saved routing four high level signal cables to the 2 channel amplifier. The setting in the head unit was made to assign rear signal to the preamp output. The disadvantage was i lost the fader setting. The 12v remote turn on signal was tapped from the same terminal at the subwoofer. The ground wire was attached to the passenger seat mounting bolt.
Following pictures show the routing of the various wires.

Description for the pics:
1. Entry of power cable into the firewall
2. Power cable from inside, near the drive side foot well.
3. Removing various plastic fasteners to free the carpet.
4. Removing of the plastic corner piece to route the cables.
5. Removing the plastic strip and the rubber thingie at the door for routing cables.
6. Power cable being routed underneath the carpet.
7. RCA cable routed to sub woofer and an earlier pic of my subwoofer.

Hope it is self explanatory.
Attached Thumbnails
ICE DIY in a Tata Indica Xeta: JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer & Sony-20140823_105234.jpg  

ICE DIY in a Tata Indica Xeta: JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer & Sony-20140823_105744.jpg  

ICE DIY in a Tata Indica Xeta: JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer & Sony-20140823_085750.jpg  

ICE DIY in a Tata Indica Xeta: JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer & Sony-20140823_085819.jpg  

ICE DIY in a Tata Indica Xeta: JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer & Sony-20140823_090004.jpg  

ICE DIY in a Tata Indica Xeta: JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer & Sony-20140823_085350.jpg  

ICE DIY in a Tata Indica Xeta: JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer & Sony-20140823_111916.jpg  

ICE DIY in a Tata Indica Xeta: JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer & Sony-20140823_091529.jpg  

ICE DIY in a Tata Indica Xeta: JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer & Sony-20140823_090107.jpg  

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Old 25th August 2014, 11:19   #4
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Default re: ICE DIY in a Tata Indica Xeta: JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer & Sony

Once again, thanks to this thread for giving me the confidence of opening the door panels to install the speakers.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/diy-do...ta-indica.html (DIY Guide : How to remove door panels - Tata Indica)

Opening of the door panels turned out to be very easy and installing the speakers was very straight forward since it did not require any modifications.

The biggest pain in the a** (pardon my language, but it really was) was passing the speaker cables through the rubber joiner between the door and the car. I tried using thin and medium thin steel wire to do that. It was soo difficult for me...i almost gave up. I think it was difficult because of the shape of that passage...Why did tata have to make it z shaped. But with a lot of effort and giving the rubber thing a small cut, i was able to pass the 'taar' to the other side to pull the wires. It was frustrating.

Mounting of tweeter was also straight forward. I decided to use the dashboard mounting adapter provided with the speakers. I used a 3M double sided tape to secure them to the dash board (after initial testing of coarse).

Lastly made the connections of the power cable to the fuse and then to the +ve terminal of the battery. The fuse was secured using cable ties.
I forgot to mention that i had removed the -ve terminal of battery prior to starting the installation.

Description of pics:
1. Door panel removed.
2. The door panel
3. Speakers installed.
4. That pain in the a**
5. The 'taar' that were tried to pull speaker wires.
6. 3M double sided tape.
7. Tweeters
8. Amplifier with all connections.
8. Fuse.
Attached Thumbnails
ICE DIY in a Tata Indica Xeta: JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer & Sony-20140823_111515.jpg  

ICE DIY in a Tata Indica Xeta: JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer & Sony-20140823_111553.jpg  

ICE DIY in a Tata Indica Xeta: JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer & Sony-20140823_135758.jpg  

ICE DIY in a Tata Indica Xeta: JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer & Sony-20140823_113555.jpg  

ICE DIY in a Tata Indica Xeta: JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer & Sony-20140823_115650_1.jpg  

ICE DIY in a Tata Indica Xeta: JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer & Sony-20140824_085826.jpg  

ICE DIY in a Tata Indica Xeta: JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer & Sony-20140824_113046.jpg  

ICE DIY in a Tata Indica Xeta: JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer & Sony-20140824_113042.jpg  

ICE DIY in a Tata Indica Xeta: JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer & Sony-20140824_114002.jpg  

ICE DIY in a Tata Indica Xeta: JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer & Sony-20140824_114249.jpg  

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Old 25th August 2014, 11:49   #5
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Default re: ICE DIY in a Tata Indica Xeta: JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer & Sony

Initial testing and setup:

The 2 channel amplifier gain was set to minimum. The crossover on 2 channel amplifier was put to HPF, which is 80Hz by default. The crossover (LPF) on the sub woofer was 80Hz and its gain was un-touched from the previous set-up (It was close to 50%). I put on my favorite music to an average listening level (maybe a little more than that). Then i increased the gain on the 2 channel amplifier till the front balanced with the rear. A little bit of adjusting of the equilizer on the head unit according to my taste and it started sounding the way i liked it. I tried testing by seating in the driver's seat and then at the rear center position. It was well-balanced. The tweeters were so fixed that they pointed to the headrest of the opposite side seat. I was very excited and satisfied with all this. This was my first major DIY!!

After reading on the forum earlier, i was worried that there may be rattle from the front doors and i may be required to damp them. Another concern, after reading about it, was the 5.25 inch speakers wont give much bass.

To my surprise the 5.25 inch speakers gave just the right amount of base i required. As it is i had sufficient base from 6x9 Coaxials and the sub.
But the best part is that i did not experience any rattles from the door panels. There may be minor ones if you listen for them but i did not notice any. Anyways i don't care for minor rattling here and there. I never look for it and so it may go un-noticed. I just enjoy the music.

A little guidance needed:
I have not yet figured out a way to secure the 2 channel amplifier under the passenger seat. Right now it just seats on the rubber mat. I need your ideas for that. Also, some ideas to prevent the legs of the rear seat passenger touching the amplifier. I would really appreciate any advice on that.

Future Upgrades?
Nothing really...at least not right now....maybe....i dont know
Maybe i will just change the rear Sony 6x9 co-axials to JBL ones and replace the rear tray with MDF one.

But right now i am just going to enjoy some music!!!

Hope you liked my little DIY log....cheers!!

Last edited by BakyaBHP : 25th August 2014 at 12:18. Reason: spelling mistake
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Old 25th August 2014, 14:06   #6
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Default Re: ICE DIY in a Tata Indica Xeta: JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer & Sony

Fantastic DIY effort, @BakyaBHP!!! Hope others are inspired by your effort and project description, to emulate you.

* That pesky z-tube is best negotiated with a 'curtain spring', which one twirls with fingers to get past any obstruction. Flex GI wire can't do that - it just bends against the obstruction. The wire to be sent through is twisted to the spring, and that joint covered with tape

* The best protection for the amp would be hanging a small piece of carpet at below the seat back, covering the under-seat area from the rear. You could stick the ends to the sides of the rail holders (on which the seat slides forward-backward)

* Tweeters: better position for the tweeter is actually 2" above the mirror-adjustment lever. In this position, the XO and the tweeter wire could stay in the door. Point the left tweeter towards driver headrest, and the right one towards passenger headrest. If you cannot remove it now, at least lift the tweeters and stick them on the A-pillar cladding - 3" above dash top surface. Point them like I described - this will improve the stereo image and bring it above the dash in front, and also prevent the tweeters from appearing excessively 'bright' in some songs

Last edited by DerAlte : 25th August 2014 at 14:12.
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Old 25th August 2014, 14:53   #7
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Default Re: ICE DIY in a Tata Indica Xeta: JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer & Sony

Dear DerAlte Sir,

Thanks for the ideas! I will try to make the changes and update here.
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Old 25th August 2014, 15:36   #8
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Default Re: ICE DIY in a Tata Indica Xeta: JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer & Sony

Quote:
Originally Posted by BakyaBHP View Post
The crossover on 2 channel amplifier was put to HPF, which is 80Hz by default. The crossover (LPF) on the sub woofer was 80Hz and its gain was un-touched from the previous set-up

A little guidance needed:
I have not yet figured out a way to secure the 2 channel amplifier under the passenger seat.
Under seat installs are prone to getting kicked by a passenger or wet if you ever get caught in a flood and the interior of the car floods. You can bolt the amplifier to the floor of the car. See figure 1 on page 6 of the manual

http://a248.e.akamai.net/pix.crutchf.../023EMA255.PDF

When it comes to speakers I like them to be discrete. One option you have is to use the dash pods. See if you can construct a plate that is at an angle with mounting holes matching the ones given for the dash speaker. Then mount the tweeters to this plate. This will keep the tweeters hidden under the dash locations. This is what was done to a 3" HAT wide range for my car (Camry).

Last edited by navin : 25th August 2014 at 15:40.
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Old 25th August 2014, 16:05   #9
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Default Re: ICE DIY in a Tata Indica Xeta: JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer & Sony

Thanks for all the suggestions!

Here is a small analogy which i realized while i was learning about component speakers.

Please tell me if i am correct.

My main hobby is Photography. I use a DSLR camera and a set of lenses.
Some of the lenses are zoom lenses(variable focal lengths) and some are primes (fixed focal length).
The primes are always of the superior optical qualities(sharper image, better color and contrast) since they are designed for a specific focal length instead of a bigger range of focal lengths (zoom lenses). I think of mid range and tweeters as prime lenses of the audio world. They are designed for specific frequencies (short frequency range) and are hence of superior sound quality as compared to coaxial (3 way) which are designed to cover almost the entire audible frequency range but losing out on better sound quality,just like zoom lenses (with wider focal length [beyond 3X zoom]).

Zoom lenses give us the convenience of using a wider focal length without changing the lens but lose out on image quality for certain focal lengths. Whereas the primes give excellent image quality and are very costly but have to be changed for the different focal lengths as required.

The analogy may not be perfect to the point but that is what i thought while learning about the speaker system.

What are your thoughts about it?
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Old 25th August 2014, 21:53   #10
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Default Re: ICE DIY in a Tata Indica Xeta: JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer & Sony

Quote:
Originally Posted by BakyaBHP View Post

A little guidance needed:
I have not yet figured out a way to secure the 2 channel amplifier under the passenger seat. Right now it just seats on the rubber mat. I need your ideas for that.

As Navin said, placing the amplifier under the seat has its disadvantages. Its prone to kicking from people sitting in the front seat as well as at the back. There are chances of water entering into the cabin via footwear, umbrellas etc to seep in and ruin it. Also consider the dirt from the footwear.

An alternative is to pull the wiring till the boot and secure the amplifier to the rear seat from the boot side. In my car ive placed it to the extreme left side and the subwoofer box in front of it, so that the rest of the teeny tiny space is available for groceries and other stuff
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Old 26th August 2014, 11:41   #11
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Default Re: ICE DIY in a Tata Indica Xeta: JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer & Sony

As Navin has pointed out there are pros and cons in installing the amp under the seat, the pros being the rca run can be made very short (better if you can build one yourself, the coiling of the rca cable should be avoided at any cost and the ready made cables comes in fixed length). The cons being the passenger discomfort and possibility of water spillage, but this can be avoided by installing it on a raised platform, either on top of it or upside down which is the most space saving installation as it uses the waste space below the seat cushion without taking the passenger leg space, provided you leave enough space for the seat to move front / back and for accessing the amp controls.

For tweeters, try to find the best location by placing at different locations and the tweeter direction also pays an important role. The general locations may or may not be suitable for all cabin shapes. The current location of the right side tweeter can create a lot of windshield early reflections due to the meter console, if you have finalised the location to be the A pillar, raise it above the meter console (~3-4" from the dash). Moreover, damping is not only to prevent the rattles, its secondary, the primary reason is to make the panel slightly resonance free \ stiff and the immediate difference you feel is the nice low end mid range. If you dont want to go for the branded ones, try the diy route using bitumen waterproofing sheets.

Last edited by ::CMS:: : 26th August 2014 at 11:58.
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Old 26th August 2014, 13:24   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BakyaBHP View Post

I think of mid range and tweeters as prime lenses of the audio world. They are designed for specific frequencies (short frequency range) and are hence of superior sound quality as compared to coaxial (3 way) which are designed to cover almost the entire audible frequency range but losing out on better sound quality,just like zoom lenses (with wider focal length [beyond 3X zoom]).

Zoom lenses give us the convenience of using a wider focal length without changing the lens but lose out on image quality for certain focal lengths. Whereas the primes give excellent image quality and are very costly but have to be changed for the different focal lengths as required.
Most Co-axials have a woofer and a tweeter mounted in the axis of the woofer so in reality have a woofer and tweeter in one housing. Where most coaxails come up short is:
  • The tweeter is right in the path of the woofer hence there is diffraction issues when the bass sound hits the edge of the tweeter.
  • Since the co-axial crossover has to be tiny to fit in this space it is also very simple and does not always compensate for the anomalies of the woofer's or tweeter's response.
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Old 26th August 2014, 14:06   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
The tweeter is right in the path of the woofer hence there is diffraction issues when the bass sound hits the edge of the tweeter.[/list]
It depends on the freq range at which the mid is running and the design of the coaxial tweeter mount. The best location to mount the tweeter is the center portion. Also in most of the cases the impact of the diffraction is dependent on the freq range (mainly wavelength) of the freq at which the speaker is operating, longer the wavelength lesser the effect of the diffraction. Hence it is mostly related to tweeter. IMO, the baffle diffraction of the speakers will be more than the diffraction due to the tweeter body.

I feel the main drawback of any coaxial is the poor Xover, in most cases it will be limited to a single capacitor.
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Old 26th August 2014, 22:49   #14
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Default Re: ICE DIY in a Tata Indica Xeta: JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer & Sony

Good Job!

I'm surprised you don't have any rattles on the door panels. I still have to put up with mine.

Also, I'd suggest that you disable bass management on the amps (at least the subwoofer one) and use the HU's HPF and Subwoofer control options.

I use an 80Hz crossover between the sub and the speakers. and disable the sub amp gains. If you want, I suppose you can set the HPF for the front speakers a bit higher if you find they cannot handle the same amount of bass as the ovals at the back. Else it is best that the HPF in the front amp also be disabled.

Depending on which you sounds better, you can set you crossover point a bit higher.

Please do upgrade to an MDF tray in the back. the bass improves a lot!

Last edited by greenhorn : 26th August 2014 at 22:50.
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Old 8th September 2014, 21:42   #15
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Thanks for all the suggestions!

I have a small update related to my DIY project.

This is something i should have done earlier.

I used two conduits, one to pass power cables and the other to pass speaker cables. This made the routing nice and tidy and also helped to separate the power cables from the audio cables. I must admit, they are still routed on the same side of the car. But, i am not facing any noise or interference issues.

The only thing i observed,since beginning, is that i can hear a very minute (almost negligible) alternator whine through tweeters when i start the car. The whine gets easily drowned in any song that i play or in traffic noise (even when no song is playing).You can hear it only if you concentrate too hard.
I am not sure what can be done about it, but, i can live with that.

Some more things i need to do:

Many of you suggested me to place the tweeters few inches higher, at ear level, on the A pillar. I am currently trying to figure out a way to properly mount them. I may have to make a bracket. If mounted on the A pillar using the provided tweeter mounts, the tweeter are not facing the opposite side headrests. They are facing more towards the other side A pillar.
Anyways, i would be making custom brackets to mount them. I will update here soon.

The second thing i need to do is to make a ventilated enclosure for the amplifier under the passenger seat to protect it against all the things mentioned here before. I am planning to use acrylic sheets to make a ventilated enclosure under the passenger seat. It will also have inlets for the various cables. I have not come up with a design yet, but i will update it here once finalized. I will try this first before considering the other option of extending all the cables to the back where i will still have to figure out where and how to mount the amplifier.

Here are few of the pics of this update.
Attached Thumbnails
ICE DIY in a Tata Indica Xeta: JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer & Sony-20140908_170929.jpg  

ICE DIY in a Tata Indica Xeta: JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer & Sony-20140908_193544.jpg  

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