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Old 18th August 2006, 15:00   #211
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For audio wiring, all that matters is total resistance of the wiring relative to speaker impedance. We do not need fancy stuff like so called oxygen-free copper wires etc. and we do not have to worry about high frequency effects like impedance matching, signal reflections etc. (which are applicable for say TV cables). I believe "audio" cable manufacturers/dealer extract too much of money from "high end" customers. Wiring resistance mainly comprises of -

1. Resistance of the wire itself: It can be reduced by using any decent copper wire with appropriate gage. I am sure we can get wires with similar resistance as branded "audio" cables at a fraction of their cost.

2. Connections/terminals: connections should be tight, corrosion/weather resistant and should have low contact resistance. I think it also depends on what materials are used for terminals and wires, and may be thats why we have products boasting of "gold plated" terminals and the like (??)

I am not sure if we have cheap alternative options for point 2. If somebody has anything to share, please enlighten. Also, does anybody know of any tips to achieve and maintain high quality contacts in an audio setup?

Refer to following link, by an old man who has been involved in developing high end speakers, almost throughout his life!

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm
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Old 18th August 2006, 15:06   #212
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I am with santosh on this ...........
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Old 18th August 2006, 16:06   #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jinu_joseph
How much does Audison Cost ??
From just a lil .. to quite a bit!!
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Old 18th August 2006, 16:11   #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kb100
From just a lil .. to quite a bit!!
I like the lil part..
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Old 18th August 2006, 16:13   #215
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Santosh makes a vey interesting point above.. I have heard this discussions before also.. but never seen this discussion reach a logical conclusion. I am glad Santosh brought it up...

folks more opinion required on this ??
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Old 18th August 2006, 16:33   #216
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the end result will be go for branded wires even if the wires mention on the rofer russell can do the job ............
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Old 18th August 2006, 16:49   #217
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Santosh, thanks for the article that is surely an eye opener. I dont see any reason to spend thousands on cables when the same can be achieved in hundreds by using apprpriate sized regular copper wires.

but I dont think we should look at wires in isolation, the connectors do play an important role too. I wonder if the regular run of the mill connectors have the same resistance profile as that of the high end ones.
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Old 18th August 2006, 17:04   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by low_bass_makker
the end result will be go for branded wires even if the wires mention on the rofer russell can do the job ............
Rightly said. Is'nt it better than taking chances???
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Old 18th August 2006, 17:24   #219
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I dont agree.. I mean .. if i could save 5-6k on wiring and still not loose on SQ by picking a 16 gauge copper wire from your neighbourhood electrical shop i would do that and put that money into a better amp/HU/etc..
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Old 18th August 2006, 17:25   #220
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If one know which wire to use one can easily buy the appropiate size wire and will spend thousand on the wires also........
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Old 18th August 2006, 17:28   #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by santosh.s
For audio wiring, all that matters is total resistance of the wiring relative to speaker impedance. We do not need fancy stuff like so called oxygen-free copper wires etc. and we do not have to worry about high frequency effects like impedance matching, signal reflections etc. (which are applicable for say TV cables). I believe "audio" cable manufacturers/dealer extract too much of money from "high end" customers. Wiring resistance mainly comprises of -

1. Resistance of the wire itself: It can be reduced by using any decent copper wire with appropriate gage. I am sure we can get wires with similar resistance as branded "audio" cables at a fraction of their cost.

2. Connections/terminals: connections should be tight, corrosion/weather resistant and should have low contact resistance. I think it also depends on what materials are used for terminals and wires, and may be thats why we have products boasting of "gold plated" terminals and the like (??)

I am not sure if we have cheap alternative options for point 2. If somebody has anything to share, please enlighten. Also, does anybody know of any tips to achieve and maintain high quality contacts in an audio setup?
From all of this, there is one conclusion I can draw: Cabling is often given more importance and allocated larger budgets than needed. I mean it's downright stupid to get recommended a speaker wire that costs as much as the speaker itself, certainly isn't worth it. A healthy proportion has to be maintained, without undermining the capacity required.

If you are using a Sony speaker retailing under 5k, you wont hear any difference if you substituted a Rs.50/m cable with one that costs Rs. 5000/m. However this does not mean that you can buy Rs. 0.5/m cable.

Good and expensive cables make a difference and it is also audible when the pedigree of the entire setup is at a superior level.

I would never completely oppose the use of OFC cable and dismiss it as a frill. This is because, since resistance if the key for a good cable, we dont want the wire to oxidise and thus lose conductivity. The same applies to terminations. When connecting the wire to a ring/ spade or banana terminal, ensure that the connection is air-tight. So put enough solder to completely seal off the strands of wire from the outside, and then to make it doubly safe, use a heat-shrink sleeve. This prevents atmospheric oxygen from coming in contact with the copper. Gold plating is not most necessary, one can use terminals with some other corrosion resistant plating also, for instance nickel. The idea here is the same too. So that oxygen is not permeable to the copper/ brass underneath, retaining conductivity at the same time. The only problem with not using gold is that it won't appeal to your wife.
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Old 18th August 2006, 17:29   #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jinu_joseph
I dont agree.. I mean .. if i could save 5-6k on wiring and still not loose on SQ by picking a 16 gauge copper wire from your neighbourhood electrical shop i would do that and put that money into a better amp/HU/etc..

man i would not recommend to get local wire , u can atlest buy any good brand wire.

also u can compare both the branded(monster) and the local (lapp) wire and ask a few that they can tell the difference........
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Old 18th August 2006, 17:29   #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jinu_joseph
I dont agree.. I mean .. if i could save 5-6k on wiring and still not loose on SQ by picking a 16 gauge copper wire from your neighbourhood electrical shop i would do that and put that money into a better amp/HU/etc..
That is right! Money better spent.
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Old 18th August 2006, 17:37   #224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jinu_joseph
I dont agree.. I mean .. if i could save 5-6k on wiring and still not loose on SQ by picking a 16 gauge copper wire from your neighbourhood electrical shop i would do that and put that money into a better amp/HU/etc..
But imagine if a guy gets an amp for 1 Lakh rupees, Should he still save some bucks while doing the wiring?
Not that everybody buys 1 Lakh Rs. Amp, (except KB100 ofcourse). But some buy good amps and dont require anything higher. So for him, is'nt it better to have branded reliable wiring than go for local stuff?

What I mean is when you have picked up good Audio components, then you should'nt be saving bucks on some good wiring and install. It's better to save bucks on rear speakers etc.. which can be changed\upgraded easily rather than wiring. That's almost like a backbone in an install!
Ask any good installer how much pain it is to change the wiring of a setup. It's not that easy.

Whattya say guys????
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Old 18th August 2006, 17:50   #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedzak
But imagine if a guy gets an amp for 1 Lakh rupees, Should he still save some bucks while doing the wiring?
Not that everybody buys 1 Lakh Rs. Amp, (except KB100 ofcourse). But some buy good amps and dont require anything higher. So for him, is'nt it better to have branded reliable wiring than go for local stuff?

What I mean is when you have picked up good Audio components, then you should'nt be saving bucks on some good wiring and install. It's better to save bucks on rear speakers etc.. which can be changed\upgraded easily rather than wiring. That's almost like a backbone in an install!
Ask any good installer how much pain it is to change the wiring of a setup. It's not that easy.

Whattya say guys????
I totally agree with you that, wiring is the backbone that holds everything together, but here it does not matter if you are using a Rs10 per meter wire or a $1500 per meter wire, if the installer does not do a good job with the cabling I am in trouble anyways. So the key is
1. Identifying a wire with good material and appropriate guauge. This could very well be a Rs.50 per meter wire
2. Ensuring that the installer follows all the rules of good cabling.
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