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Old 9th October 2014, 07:14   #16
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Default Re: Dearth of OEM Touchscreen Head-unit vendors in India?

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Originally Posted by F150 View Post

I want to understand the scenario with the likes of SKODA, VW, BMW, MB and AUDI. They don't have buggy touch screen units, I suppose.
In Octavia I never faced any such issues, it is super responsive and till date never came across any issues/bugs and sound quality is amazing.
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Old 9th October 2014, 14:40   #17
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Default Re: Dearth of OEM Touchscreen Head-unit vendors in India?

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Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
Inside information ... My source (brother's friend, working at Bosch) ...
Funny. Doesn't take pride in work and organization. Bosch's recruitment standards must be slipping. One wouldn't go by what such people say - they obviously aren't anywhere near the actual stuff.

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Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay View Post
... using Linux / Android is not.
Two examples here:
1. Tesla (Linux) ...
Is there any point in comparing what is being done for a car costing US$70K with what cars costing US$7-8K need?

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Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay View Post
... 2. Android Auto
This has Google's backing and thus ...
Err ... so? How many PRODUCTS are out there? Aren't they just pies in the sky as has happened with any other OS derivative in the past? Even they were backed by industry biggies. Probably Windows (CE) based products are present in more cars (hobby as well as products; Car PCs - even you have one) today than all the other OSes put together. Does that mean anything at all?

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... Tesla's CTO on Linux: ...
While one respects his views, Tesla has the advantage that they are building a homogenous system for energy management and auxiliary functions. Other car manufacturers don't take that approach - they take a system integration approach using sub-systems from different vendors. These 2 are completely different philosophies.

The discussion in this thread is not about whether one or the other OS will succeed in the market, or whether they are good or bad. It is about badly made 'products' being foisted off on Indian car buyers, and no one coming up with an economical VFM product to fit the Indian pricing needs.
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Old 9th October 2014, 19:23   #18
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Default Re: Dearth of OEM Touchscreen Head-unit vendors in India?

Last month when I first drove home my New Santa Fe, the only thing I did not like in the car was the small touch screen and ICE. After doing some research online, I have found that the large touch screen with Sat Nav available on the Santa Fe sport in the USA is extremely buggy and most features take a few tries to work.
I am happy Hyundai decided to go for a simpler but more reliable system here.
I still feel the sound quality of the ICE is a complete disaster.
The absence of a Sat Nav is actually a good thing. It forced me to look at other alternatives. I now use an old android phone as a HUD.
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Old 9th October 2014, 20:39   #19
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Default Re: Dearth of OEM Touchscreen Head-unit vendors in India?

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Originally Posted by miharbe View Post
Mods may delete my post if they find it irrelevant but I always wonder why are manufacturers forcing their music systems upon us especially such ones where it's really a big compromise. I for one don't want a music system even on the top end as I feel I can get an awesome setup in 50-60k than be forced to live with something that is there for the sake of being premium but doesn't function very well.

I guess this current problem will stay till a point where we start getting the apple and android systems on mass market cars.

P.S. I also have pioneer touchscreen head unit on both my vehicles which touchwood so far have worked pretty well!
No many people change audio systems in their top model cars. It would look basic and ugly to leave a blank space in the dash in a top model car. A customer expects some basic things and the ability to have some sound is one of them.
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Old 9th October 2014, 22:14   #20
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Default Re: Dearth of OEM Touchscreen Head-unit vendors in India?

What i feel is that automotive companies should start having tie ups with companies like Samsung, Apple, Lg who will develop the infotainment system as per the requirements or google or Apple who can design the entire software which can be Android or IOS based and be customized according to the car. I really liked the touch screen infotainment system provide by Lg on duster AWD model. Just for example if it was android based it would be like icing on the cake.

P.S. A good samsung tab costs under 15k, if it's integrated with the dash, it will definitely give a premium feel along with n number of features on proven android platform. Do note that quad core tabs with 2gb ram are very swift to handle multi tasking.
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Old 10th October 2014, 00:16   #21
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Default Re: Dearth of OEM Touchscreen Head-unit vendors in India?

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Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
Inside information -> Bosch India is responsible for buggy software in Ciaz's infotainment system. My source (brother's friend, working at Bosch) talked about it a couple of months back - way before Ciaz was released.

If I know about this, I'm pretty sure lots of people at Maruti too know about Ciaz's infotainment system bugs. And they still launched the vehicle without fixing it. Looks like they wanted to bring the Ciaz to the market as soon as possible.
Maruti launched the Ciaz, but the Z+ versions with the touchscreen HU are not yet launched and my come in sometime next year only. The Z+ cars were only provided for the media drive. Z(O) version launched has all the features of the Z+ minus the touchscreen system.

And - considering the delay in launch, many members including me had suspected that Bosch is behind the headunits. And they are having labour relations issues with their facilities which Maruti obviously couldn't wait for!
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Old 10th October 2014, 09:02   #22
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Default Re: Dearth of OEM Touchscreen Head-unit vendors in India?

It may not be dearth of OEM suppliers for reliable touchscreens and non-buggy units. There could be the following reasons -
1. Overall negligence to the ICE units from user experience perspective.
2. Saving a few bucks and thus compromising on inferior quality.
3. As you rightly pointed out, it could be simply picking up wrong guy.
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Old 10th October 2014, 09:23   #23
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Default Re: Dearth of OEM Touchscreen Head-unit vendors in India?

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
And - considering the delay in launch, many members including me had suspected that Bosch is behind the headunits. And they are having labour relations issues with their facilities which Maruti obviously couldn't wait for!
Bosch software division is different from Bosch auto component division (which had labor issues) I guess.

http://www.boschindia.com (Automotive related hardware)
http://www.bosch-india-software.com (software division)

He was apparently grinning "It's a first release". If complaints pour in, I'd assume that a software fix will be done later.

Last edited by smartcat : 10th October 2014 at 09:27.
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Old 10th October 2014, 09:42   #24
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Default Re: Dearth of OEM Touchscreen Head-unit vendors in India?

Slightly from the main subject of touchscreen Head unit vendors and a contrary view on touchscreen Head units..
Maybe I'm the old school type, and I have no long-term experience (other than playing around with touch screen head units when my friends gave me a demo of it in their cars) of using touchscreen Head Units.
But I wonder if touchscreen Head units are really a good idea, it will mean more usage in terms of gestures, etc needing your hand to be focused in operating it which could result in a serious safety issue while driving. More so with the screens suffering from visibility issues due to glare, etc

I'd rather use a head unit with simple buttons to operate it with a remote (fixed to steering wheel) or controls on the steering wheel, anyone with me ?

Last edited by n_aditya : 10th October 2014 at 18:27. Reason: as requested.
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Old 10th October 2014, 10:54   #25
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Default Re: Dearth of OEM Touchscreen Head-unit vendors in India?

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Originally Posted by rahul_kej View Post
P.S. A good samsung tab costs under 15k, if it's integrated with the dash, it will definitely give a premium feel along with n number of features on proven android platform. Do note that quad core tabs with 2gb ram are very swift to handle multi tasking.
What you are talking about here is Consumer Grade Electronics. For a tablet to go into the dashboard of a car as a OEM fitment, it has to be of Automotive grade. Making the same tablet conform to automotive grade requirements will take some effort and will see the cost increasing considerably.

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Originally Posted by NPV View Post
I'd rather use a head unit with simple buttons to operate it with a remote or controls on the steering wheel, anyone with me ?
Second you there, NPV. It sure is fun to use the touchscreen when I am sitting in the passenger seat, however, when I am in my car, I'd rather have a simple head unit with knobs and buttons that my left hand can memorize(muscle memory) instead of my brain and eyes being distracted from driving to fiddle with a touch-screen.



OT: I see a many people here and in other threads use the words "cheap" and "VFM" seemingly interchangeably, but there is a difference, a big difference. Cheap is NOT equal to VFM.
A VFM product need not be the cheapest in its category but it is a product where "affordability" and "usability" converge. If the cheapest product in its category offers satisfactory usability, then, and only then can it be termed VFM.

I would happily encourage our manufactures to seek VFM solutions any day, but unfortunately, they only seem to be looking at finding the cheapest solutions that they can pass on to the customers with barely a regard to either "usability" or "value addition"
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Old 10th October 2014, 14:54   #26
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Default Re: Dearth of OEM Touchscreen Head-unit vendors in India?

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
... many members including me had suspected that Bosch is behind the headunits. And they are having labour relations issues with their facilities which Maruti obviously couldn't wait for!
Quote:
Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
Bosch software division is different from Bosch auto component division (which had labor issues) I guess. ...
This is even worse than that "insider info" about buggy software release.

* The software division has nothing to do with manufacture. They are sub-contractors to the product engineering divisions, which are usually in Germany, with a few in US and Japan
* The product engineering division has the responsibility to get the products to the market. Manufacturing is done by the manufacturing division
* The labor unrest was in a small pocket of mechanical manufacturing, not across Bosch in India
* That pocket doesn't make ICE / Infotainment systems. That is actually made in Malaysia, and possibly China - with local integration of the dashboard (it is supplied as an integrated unit)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NPV View Post
... I wonder if touchscreen Head units are really a good idea, it will mean more usage in terms of gestures, etc needing your hand to be focused in operating it which could result in a serious safety issue while driving. ...
They are definitely a good idea, since current functionality supported by HUs needs more physical buttons than the faceplate real-estate can support. All navigation system software in touchscreen units warn the driver that they should not be operating the unit while driving. A good design will need minimum interaction, as well as support steering wheel switches.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NPV View Post
... More so with the screens suffering from visibility issues due to glare, etc ...
With improvements in display and backlighting technology, both reflection and glare are cut down. The glare part is usually software-control dimming of the display, either time-of-day based, or sensor based.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NPV View Post
... I'd rather use a head unit with simple buttons to operate it with a remote or controls on the steering wheel, anyone with me ?
Hey, I am with you! I use one!

Last edited by DerAlte : 10th October 2014 at 15:59.
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Old 10th October 2014, 15:09   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
This is even worse than that "insider info" about buggy software release.

* The software division has nothing to do with manufacture. They are sub-contractors to the product engineering divisions, which are usually in Germany, with a few in US and Japan
* The product engineering division has the responsibility to get the products to the market. Manufacturing is done by the manufacturing division
* The labor unrest was in a small pocket of mechanical manufacturing, not across Bosch in India
* That pocket doesn't make ICE / Infotainment systems. That is actually made in Malaysia, and possibly China - with local integration of the dashboard (it is supplied as an integrated unit)
Thanks for the clarification. As I mentioned, mine was only a suspicion putting A plus B together.

Sorry if I missed it- but do you work for Bosch?
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Old 10th October 2014, 15:34   #28
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Default Re: Dearth of OEM Touchscreen Head-unit vendors in India?

I don't think there's a dearth of vendor's just the manufacturers who are looking at low cost solution resulting in quality issues.

The Duster touch screen interface is from LG and not too bad. Kenwood used to have complicated HU but they were quite good to use. Problem is that these cost a lot. If manufacturers have to offer these as OEM the prices shoot up.

I don't mind not having touch screen as long as the HU is good to operate. The Ford SYNC system is an example. Works very well but no touch screen and sat nav.
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Old 10th October 2014, 15:47   #29
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Default Re: Dearth of OEM Touchscreen Head-unit vendors in India?

Check out the sonic electronics channel on youtube. There are many videos of ipad installs in a lot of different types of cars (US). Would love to see something similar offered in cars in India as standard fitment. Then the consumer would have a choice of selecting IOS or android and still enjoy great sound in their cars.

For me at the moment, non-touch screen Pioneer single din HU any day.
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Old 10th October 2014, 16:37   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
Inside information -> Bosch India is responsible for buggy software in Ciaz's infotainment system. My source (brother's friend, working at Bosch) talked about it a couple of months back - way before Ciaz was released.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Funny. Doesn't take pride in work and organization. Bosch's recruitment standards must be slipping. One wouldn't go by what such people say - they obviously aren't anywhere near the actual stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
This is even worse than that "insider info" about buggy software release.
Humble request to explain why we are ridiculing member 'smartcat' and his friend here?

From where I stand-

1. His brother's friend informed him earlier that Ciaz will have a buggy infotainment system.


2. Turns out the system was buggy. Noted during test drives, launch delayed for all variants but the Z+ where the infotainment system is the only addition over Z(O).

3. Turns out Bosch is the vendor.

Turns out his predictions were correct. Anything I'm missing that you are aware of?

Pride in a organisation shouldn't mean blind bias- and a spade should be called just that- a spade.

IMO- the choice of words 'Bosch's recruitment standards must be slipping' and 'one wouldn't go by what such people say' are too extreme and personal to a member's friend. The second post takes a dig at a fellow member for posting 'insider info'. I hope there is a reason for these? Please do share.
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