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Old 3rd August 2006, 01:33   #16
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Originally Posted by low_bass_makker
one more example the iridium end user sale price in india is INR 98k and in singapore it is INR 26k in this we have the dealer margin supplier margin taxes freight or any other margin one could have in there specific country . now why is the difference is of nearly 4 times. also in both the cases the product is with bill and warrenty and no installation charges are inculded.


Why it is so , even if the custom duty is of 40% why do we pay the extra 100% more ????????????
Like I mentioned earlier, this is not an industry standard. PTC must have its reasons for pricing their products so high but then its their product so its their business how they conduct theirs.

LBM, if PTC would retail the 6.3 for say... INR 47k (US$1000) + 12.5% VAT here, which is almost 53000, would you call it fair? moreover, would you buy it at this price? I ask this purely as end-user feedback.
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Old 3rd August 2006, 01:36   #17
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Originally Posted by 929RON
Also to throw some more light, All the prices you see on eBay etc are sold almost at cost in USA, they make margins on shipping, when a person has a seller account with FedEx or UPS shipping about 100 + items per week, then they get great discounts on shipping, ans most average car audio components are shipped between $ 25 to $50, why ? to make money cos the price on eBay is almost cost or below cost at times, so it actually just costs a Dealer $8 to $10 to ship a set of Speakers anywhere in the U.S
Yeah, good point 929...
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Old 3rd August 2006, 01:43   #18
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gunbir veer now i have two answers for you

first i only know the us prices that is $1000 and i dont know the singapore prices then the above prices are heaven to me just the vat only extra.I would have bought it right away.

second I know the us prices and the singapore price i would never bought it from here as the price in singapore is 26k i would not buy it from here
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Old 3rd August 2006, 01:53   #19
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Originally Posted by low_bass_makker
second I know the us prices and the singapore price i would never bought it from here as the price in singapore is 26k i would not buy it from here
LBM, I thought as much. See, everywhere in the world, there are DIYers who will find a way to source a product cheap. And then there are consumers who will even fly-in installers from Singapore to install a $2000 system and end up paying more than that to the installer.

Installing a $1000 3way system isnt easy (if you're doing it right) and since the installer would usually not be paid any installation charges, his margin is pretty much all he makes. Add to this the fact that a retailer only may sell one such set in an entire year. I guess PTC knows that try as they might, they cant compete with the grey market / alternate import elements. So they might as well charge a premium and make money on the few sales they will have...

I guess PTC is consciously not catering to consumers like you... I accept their strategy and wish them luck with it.

Last edited by gunbir : 3rd August 2006 at 01:55.
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Old 3rd August 2006, 02:11   #20
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Ya Gunbir you are right this low volume market is the worst thing happein here....
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Old 3rd August 2006, 02:33   #21
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Similar to PTC is Digimax Impex from Mumbai, Even their prices are quite high, and i myself used to think it is not justified, but then there is another way of lookig at it,
for Ex they sell a Rockford Fosgate Type RF X7.A for RS 85,000 MRP.
In fact I myself sold one I Imported for Rs 60,000.
Though that amp is no longer available, but If one has to buy it in the USA from a reputed website then it would cost a mere $500 Max with 1 year warranty. So why is it priced so high here ?
Here is the answer:
They are a company that is the Authorised Disti for RF corp for Entire India, They stock a hell lot of products, and that comprises of a lot of stuff that does not sell very regular, also they have Infrastructure costs, like their showroom in Tardeo A/C market which is abt 1 to 2 Cr maybe.
Then comes all their promotions, taking care of logistics and supply all over, marketting promos, they did a MASSIVE Display stall in Vaahan Yatra car show in Bangalore for 2 consecutive years, and now RF has become a known brand to all of Bangalore.Not to mention their mind boggling demo vehicles, Now that costed them a lot of money. Even if that was sponsored by Rockford Themselves, they will not spend money for nothing, so returns have to be proportional.
The Stall or rather HUGE SHOWCASE they had was about 27 Lakhs for a week. ( am not sure abt the number it can be couple less of more). So that is their Strategy, of making profits.
If I was the owner of that company I would have done things different, but I cannot say that they are looting people at the same time.
People have their ways of making money and there is always a Flipside and always a Other side of any Story.

Now, LBM, I never buy anything from India, partly cos I am an Importer and stuff comes in for nominal costs for me and it works out , plus my systems change every 3 to 6 months, and I sometimes buy big setups, so buying here will be suicidal for me, but not all the consumers have the time or patience as me to go through the wait to get a product, If they are rich and are in business they already have headaches to handle, and don't want to go through more to get a product which is Luxury for them.
Hence the market.

Last edited by 929RON : 3rd August 2006 at 02:38.
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Old 3rd August 2006, 06:49   #22
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This thread is becoming one of the most informative threads on the forum.

As a customer, I would like to support local dealers and importers more than bying stuff from outside the country. Ofcourse if there's something which is overpriced like 100% plus difference in price, then I'll opt for the other route.

Some nicely priced brands in india are : JBL, Hertz, Audison, Infinity, Alpine (yes A L P I N E) etc... Ok, there'll be exceptions in certain models but most of their products are priced good.
And the best VFM in the brands available here: HERTZ for sure. Best quality for the price paid!
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Old 3rd August 2006, 10:21   #23
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to cap of this topic let me add my 2 paise worth...

I have seen the audio industry since 1972. Witnessed it's infancy in india (if not it's brith - my dad did that), it's rise, it's demise (thanks to video) and it's re-birth (again thanks to video). I am second generation "audiophile".

It is not an easy industry. There are a few niches (in audio) where one can make a lot of money but one must have the guts, gumption and be more than a little bit lucky to be so successful. And these niches are not in dealerships. The Mukherjees of Sonodyne and the Rathas of Peerless India are 2 such success stories.

Average (Brick and Mortar) Dealer margins in India are lower than most EU countries and a lot less than the US. Sales are not approaching that of any developed country.

I salute those in this industry incl the Rathas and Mukherjees for makng this industry what it is. I would never be part of this industry as being a good Sindhi I know which side my bread is buttered! :-) it is easier to make money selling software and use that money for a good audio system (for example).

Sam, Gunbir, B&T, and co. Good luck to you and keep the flame burning.
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Old 3rd August 2006, 11:58   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by low_bass_makker
esteem lover thanks for understanding my point and for the support......
u r welcome, LBM.. i am a consumer like you & i would like to have choices put in front of me & i wont take anything forced down my throat.

@gunbir, i can understand ur point of view, but the bottom line here is that people with real taste will definitely wouldn't want their purchsases to be expensive in relation to the presentation of the product at shows or in relation to the A.C malls/parking lots/what nots.... i think, instead, they would love to talk to someone with good knowledge & understanding about his needs & decide on a system which he will relish for as long as he can without having to keep tinkering with the sound effects, which means he is not entirely satisfied. These kind of people would love to pay for the charges of someone who does that rather than pay an atrociously high amount of money, just because of these frills quoted above or to hand out handsome margins to sub dealers & middlemen. or perhaps these dealers are targeting a different kind of market, the one with money & ignorance to the sound.

my point in my earlier post was, why not reduce margins & sell more. u would definitely have the same profit with higher sales & turnover.

Last edited by esteem_lover : 3rd August 2006 at 12:00.
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Old 3rd August 2006, 12:05   #25
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[quote=speedzak]This thread is becoming one of the most informative threads on the forum.

As a customer, I would like to support local dealers and importers more than bying stuff from outside the country. Ofcourse if there's something which is overpriced like 100% plus difference in price, then I'll opt for the other route.

quote]

I appriciate your view, and yeah it becomes a little stiff for a customer to pay 4 times here of what a product costs Abroad when he come to know how much it actualy costs there.
We as a company don't price anything in that scale, but a company that does it, may have a different way of looking at it and strategy to work with, so it's their way.
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Old 3rd August 2006, 13:41   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navin
to cap of this topic let me add my 2 paise worth...

I have seen the audio industry since 1972. Witnessed it's infancy in india (if not it's brith - my dad did that), it's rise, it's demise (thanks to video) and it's re-birth (again thanks to video). I am second generation "audiophile".

It is not an easy industry. There are a few niches (in audio) where one can make a lot of money but one must have the guts, gumption and be more than a little bit lucky to be so successful. And these niches are not in dealerships. The Mukherjees of Sonodyne and the Rathas of Peerless India are 2 such success stories.

Average (Brick and Mortar) Dealer margins in India are lower than most EU countries and a lot less than the US. Sales are not approaching that of any developed country.

I salute those in this industry incl the Rathas and Mukherjees for makng this industry what it is. I would never be part of this industry as being a good Sindhi I know which side my bread is buttered! :-) it is easier to make money selling software and use that money for a good audio system (for example).
Certainly a very good thread, thanks to Navin and Gunbir.

When I first met Navin, I was very flattered when he told me that individuals like me, Sam, Gunbir etc could 'relatively' easily excell in other fields and make more money, rather than break our heads in the car audio industry, the difficulties of which are certainly best known to him. But at the same time, he felt it was laudable that people were pursuing what they like doing best rather than just following the crowd into mainstream, and otherwise lucrative professions.

As all of us seem to have realized now, the going sure gets tough. A distributor is not actively supported for anything by the brand. Every penny is spent by the distributor. Add to that, a market that is still ignorant and immature, constantly threatened by grey market supplies, and other illicit practices and things occassionally get very frustrating. And after years of spending and marketing your brands, there's a good chance that when you really reached the threshold of accelerating the business, someone came and poached it from right under your nose! No wonder tempers sometimes flare even here at the forum, and there's the occassional mud-slinging, but I can conclusively state that there are several individuals here at the forum, and out there, working for a common cause, whom I infinitely adore and respect. They would know who they are

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Originally Posted by navin
Sam, Gunbir, B&T, and co. Good luck to you and keep the flame burning.
God bless you sir. Means a lot coming from you. Thank you.
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Old 3rd August 2006, 14:45   #27
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Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble
Certainly a very good thread, thanks to Navin and Gunbir.

When I first met Navin, I was very flattered when he told me that individuals like me, Sam, Gunbir etc could 'relatively' easily excell in other fields and make more money, rather than break our heads in the car audio industry, the difficulties of which are certainly best known to him. But at the same time, he felt it was laudable that people were pursuing what they like doing best rather than just following the crowd into mainstream, and otherwise lucrative professions.

As all of us seem to have realized now, the going sure gets tough. A distributor is not actively supported for anything by the brand. Every penny is spent by the distributor. Add to that, a market that is still ignorant and immature, constantly threatened by grey market supplies, and other illicit practices and things occassionally get very frustrating. And after years of spending and marketing your brands, there's a good chance that when you really reached the threshold of accelerating the business, someone came and poached it from right under your nose! No wonder tempers sometimes flare even here at the forum, and there's the occassional mud-slinging, but I can conclusively state that there are several individuals here at the forum, and out there, working for a common cause, whom I infinitely adore and respect. They would know who they are



God bless you sir. Means a lot coming from you. Thank you.
i hope i haven't hurt anyone's sentiments here. obviously, my ignorance, i was not aware of quite a few guys here being in the car audio profession. i had wrongly presumed that all of u were amateurs like me. i was just trying to make this an interesting discussion, that's all. (Probably taking out my frustration at having to pay so much). my sincere apologies to anyone who has felt hurt..not really intended to hurt..
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Old 3rd August 2006, 21:19   #28
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Originally Posted by esteem_lover
i hope i haven't hurt anyone's sentiments here. obviously, my ignorance, i was not aware of quite a few guys here being in the car audio profession. i had wrongly presumed that all of u were amateurs like me. i was just trying to make this an interesting discussion, that's all. (Probably taking out my frustration at having to pay so much). my sincere apologies to anyone who has felt hurt..not really intended to hurt..
I am an amateur just like you.

I dont belong to the fraternity but have met quite a few of the audio fraternity both in India and Abroad. Note I say Audio and not CAR Audio. I know the business intimately, I have been a beneficiary of many a largess from many in this fraternity, and i know their margins and with a few exceptions I can say that given the effort and investment involved there are easier ways to make money if Audio was ONLY about money. Most in this profession are passionate about it. More Passionate than I am for if I was as passionate I should have atleast entertained thoughts about being part of the audio brother/sister hood.
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Old 3rd August 2006, 21:19   #29
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Originally Posted by esteem_lover
u r welcome, LBM.. i am a consumer like you & i would like to have choices put in front of me & i wont take anything forced down my throat.

my point in my earlier post was, why not reduce margins & sell more. u would definitely have the same profit with higher sales & turnover.
My friend, I just put up an example here. I asked LBM that if PTC priced the iridium 6.3 for 53k would he buy it. He replied, knowing that it costs 26k in Sing, he wouldnt buy it for 53k here... I had calculated roughly that if PTC cuts out distributors, dealer margins etc. and sold at $1000 retail price... they would be able to retail for 53k. My point was to prove that some end users still wont buy it here at that price... so whats the point in reducing/eliminating ditributor/dealer margins???

Sadly, there are very few responsible consumers in our country, as most would rather buy a grey market product and save a buck or two... This leads to the current situation we have here... A thriving grey market and struggling legit businesses.

I know how demand and supply works to effect pricing... and we are all working to further improve pricing and value. There will be exceptions like PTC but I cant comment on their strategy. But we also need the consumers support. I am not saying please buy DLS at abnormally high prices. Though I am saying support the brands that are trying to give you great products with value for money.

And Esteem_lover, we are certainly not offended. We face this everyday and are used to it.
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Old 7th August 2006, 11:33   #30
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Originally Posted by gunbir
My friend, I just put up an example here. I asked LBM that if PTC priced the iridium 6.3 for 53k would he buy it. He replied, knowing that it costs 26k in Sing, he wouldnt buy it for 53k here... I had calculated roughly that if PTC cuts out distributors, dealer margins etc. and sold at $1000 retail price... they would be able to retail for 53k. My point was to prove that some end users still wont buy it here at that price... so whats the point in reducing/eliminating ditributor/dealer margins???

Sadly, there are very few responsible consumers in our country, as most would rather buy a grey market product and save a buck or two... This leads to the current situation we have here... A thriving grey market and struggling legit businesses.

I know how demand and supply works to effect pricing... and we are all working to further improve pricing and value. There will be exceptions like PTC but I cant comment on their strategy. But we also need the consumers support. I am not saying please buy DLS at abnormally high prices. Though I am saying support the brands that are trying to give you great products with value for money.

Quote:
And Esteem_lover, we are certainly not offended. We face this everyday and are used to
it.
nice of u to say that, thanks..

continuing the discussion, lets take the mobile market for example.. 5 years ago, u could save a whopping 2k-5k depending on the phone u buy from the grey market, but now u can hardly save 500rs if u sacrifice the warranty...which offer would anyone take ?? ...i think it will be a long time before that sort of a situation happens for car audio. even the popular brands like sony have this huge difference. once that difference is narrowed, i think everyone will be happy.
cheers
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