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Old 18th November 2014, 10:27   #1
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Question Problems after DIY install - RCD/RCN 320 on Polo/Vento

Dear BHPians,

I have read many references to this problem on different threads but none dedicated to solve this specific problem.

Intention: Install RCD/RCN 320 on a Polo/Vento 2012 model or before.

Problem: Buttons Back-lights, Bluetooth & power off with key removal not working. Some have reported battery drainage issue but its too early for me to report that.

My CAR:
Polo TDI 1.2 version A05 Ind. HIGHL - MAY 2012 make.

Device to be installed: RCN/RCD 320 made by VISTEON - made in India. Part # 6RF 035 185 (sourced from another customer from who has a Vento TSI 2014)

Description: I have removed my RCD 030 that came with my car and connected the RCD/RCN 320, the FM connector is the same. I pulled two wires from power socket (+) & (-) and connected the same to the device and it powers up and all features except Blutooth, buttons back-light & power off after key removal does not work. Obviously because this is a CANBUS radio and CAN wires are not connected.

Then began my study of what is CANBUS and how can I connect and make it work. After reading Team Bhp threads and other resources online I realized that my car has a CAN Bus (+) and CAN Bus (-) on my BCM B module. I managed to open things up with care and found that pin #20 (CAN +ve) and Pin# 21 (CAN -ve) are empty on the bus socket and there are no wires runing into it.

Then I opened the BCM board (PQ25) to see if the pins are actually present and YES the pins are present. To pull out wires one will have to have insert compatible female pins on the Bus socket. I learned the hard way that you can't get them anywhere in Chennai. So I had to visit the VW service center and after lot of convincing and argument I convinced the service manager to approve their technician to do the job. He got two new female pins from spares section and inserted to the empty slots on BCM B - pin # 20 & 21.

I pulled the wires from their and using some DIY clamps connected the #20 to the CAN (+) & the #21 to the CAN GND on the RCD/RCN 320.

NO DIFFERENCE AFTER THIS- SAME PROBLEM!

I rechecked all the connections multiple times but no change, still the same issue of back lights, Bluetooth and it keeps running after I take my key out.

I spoke to Sugesh from Vagtune and he was of the opinion that I needed a kind of CAN bus simulator that's gonna cost me 8 to 9 K. I don't think that's the solution and also I am not ready to spend that much for this issue.

I have made up mind that I am going to solve this problem somehow and I need your help and advise to move forward.

Help me !
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Old 18th November 2014, 19:10   #2
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Default Re: Problems after DIY install - RCD/RCN 320 on Polo/Vento

Thread moved to 'Ask the Gurus' section
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Old 18th November 2014, 19:19   #3
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Default Re: Problems after DIY install - RCD/RCN 320 on Polo/Vento

To my limited knowledge, RCD320 is not going to work with pre 2012 Polo/Ventos. It needs a different revision of CAN bus. So either you need a CAN bus simulator or go for RCD510 which you can get at the cost of the simulator for 8k or so.
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Old 18th November 2014, 20:12   #4
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Default Re: Problems after DIY install - RCD/RCN 320 on Polo/Vento

Hi Poloman, what makes you believe the RCD 510 will work and that CAN bus connection will work?

Also any advise on programming my BCM module to replicate the CANBUS of a 2014 Polo ?
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Old 18th November 2014, 21:33   #5
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Default Re: Problems after DIY install - RCD/RCN 320 on Polo/Vento

RCD 510 is installed in my 2010 Polo. Many polo and vento owners in Team BHP have done the same. I have never come across anyone who has successfully installed RCD320 in older polos.If you search in Google you can find Polo owners with the same issues mentioned by you on installing RCD320. If the difference is at protocol level, I don't think it will be easy to reprogram the BCM.
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Old 19th November 2014, 02:14   #6
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Default Re: Problems after DIY install - RCD/RCN 320 on Polo/Vento

Quote:
Originally Posted by poloman View Post
RCD 510 is installed in my 2010 Polo. Many polo and vento owners in Team BHP have done the same.
That's very encouraging! Please let me know if you connected the canbus cables to the pin#20 & 21 of the BCM B module ?

Also the RCD 510 you have is a BOSCH make or Delphi ?

On the sidelines I had some discussion with Sugesh from vagtune again and he was of the opinion that BCM can be reprogrammed using VCDS. His shop is 600 KMS from Chennai and I am giving it a thought to drive there and get it done..
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Old 19th November 2014, 08:19   #7
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Default Re: Problems after DIY install - RCD/RCN 320 on Polo/Vento

Mine is RCD510 Delphi make and working flawlessly. CAN bus is connected to the BCM module the same way you did. There is a good DIY thread on TBHP itself on this. Since you already made the connections to BCM module the difficult part is behind you.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/diy-do...ento-polo.html


Go for RCD320 only if you are particular about Bluetooth. I don't think it is worth driving 600Km just for this which may or may not work. RCD510 is much more upmarket and brings looks and class to the interiors. SD card slot is built in but need a plug and play cable for USB. So under 9K you can get a touchscreen HU with USB. However it will be expensive if you want to add Bluetooth module to the RD510.

Last edited by poloman : 19th November 2014 at 08:23.
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Old 19th November 2014, 13:49   #8
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Default Re: Problems after DIY install - RCD/RCN 320 on Polo/Vento

Quote:
Originally Posted by callme9009 View Post
... He got two new female pins from spares section and inserted to the empty slots on BCM B - pin # 20 & 21.

I pulled the wires from their and using some DIY clamps connected the #20 to the CAN (+) & the #21 to the CAN GND on the RCD/RCN 320.

NO DIFFERENCE AFTER THIS- SAME PROBLEM! ...
AFAIK, the connection you are hooking on to, is empty for a reason: the BCM implemented in your car model doesn't connect to CAN bus. Perhaps you are looking at the wrong place? The CAN bus originator (or Master) is the Engine ECU (not BCM), and the bus is daisy-chained to different modules - which hook up if required.

Search on the net - you might find a diagram of CAN bus physical connectivity in VW cars.
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Old 19th November 2014, 14:30   #9
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Where are you guys finding the 510? On aliexpress?
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Old 19th November 2014, 14:53   #10
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Default Re: Problems after DIY install - RCD/RCN 320 on Polo/Vento

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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
AFAIK, the connection you are hooking on to, is empty for a reason: the BCM implemented in your car model doesn't connect to CAN bus. Perhaps you are looking at the wrong place?
That's an interesting thought.. but Poloman and few others have connected a 510 on POLO with CANBUS connection to the very same pins on BCM. And they have confirmed that canbus features are working. That should be proof enough!? Do share your thought.

The only logical conclusion that I get is RCD/RCN 320 is expecting a version/type of canbus that pre 2013 models don't have. However RCD510 is able to work with the existing version of canbus.

I have question for Poloman... I read your experience on the DIY 510 thread and I realised you had your setup done from Vagtune. Did they have to enable the canbus using vcsd? Or was it just plug and play?

Also the pin 20 & 21 were empty like mine or did you have wires running into it?
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Old 19th November 2014, 15:16   #11
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Default Re: Problems after DIY install - RCD/RCN 320 on Polo/Vento

Quote:
Originally Posted by mav2000 View Post
Where are you guys finding the 510? On aliexpress?
I guess the costs mentioned are exclusive of any shipping charges and duties. Even I am curious to know if 510 is really available for sub 9K all inclusive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by callme9009 View Post
...have to enable the canbus using vcsd? Or was it just plug and play?
Hey 9009, AFAIK 320 does not require VCDS coding. As in, if you check the gate way installation list in a VW with 320, you would see the "Radio" is not selected. I know this as I have swapped the 320 in a friend's Jetta comfortline. So when you install a RCD 510, you would need to enable "Radio" from the gateway installation list. I guess that should complete the installation if CAN BUS wires have already been hooked up. Hope that's the only thing left to do.

Last edited by ajaypjayaraj : 19th November 2014 at 15:27. Reason: Added info.
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Old 19th November 2014, 15:21   #12
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Default Re: Problems after DIY install - RCD/RCN 320 on Polo/Vento

If yours is a highline with steering control and automatic climate control, you can tap CAN bus from these interfaces. How ever I don't have info on the pinout.
RCD510 works on all models of Polo.I think no need to enable anything on VCS. This is required only if you connect the Bluetooth module. Vagtune guy only did the connection, so not sure pin 20 and 21 were empty or not. But if they are empty it is not going to work, right?
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Old 19th November 2014, 15:22   #13
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Default Re: Problems after DIY install - RCD/RCN 320 on Polo/Vento

Quote:
Originally Posted by callme9009 View Post
... That should be proof enough!? ... RCD/RCN 320 is expecting a version/type of canbus that pre 2013 models don't have. ... did you have wires running into it?
Not really. The key question you have already asked in your last post.

There are no 'different' versions of CAN bus - they are all the same since 1991 (CAN v2.0). The CAN FD, which came out in 2012, is backward compatible with v2.0. Your application (HU) doesn't have CAN FD.
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Old 19th November 2014, 15:54   #14
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Default Re: Problems after DIY install - RCD/RCN 320 on Polo/Vento

Quote:
Originally Posted by poloman View Post
If yours is a highline with steering control and automatic climate control, you can tap CAN bus from these interfaces. How ever I don't have info on the pinout.
RCD510 works on all models of Polo.I think no need to enable anything on VCS. This is required only if you connect the Bluetooth module. Vagtune guy only did the connection, so not sure pin 20 and 21 were empty or not. But if they are empty it is not going to work, right?
Mine is highline but because it is from May 2012 these features of steering controls & climate control were not introduced by then. Please share the variant of your car and if you have these features?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Not really. The key question you have already asked in your last post.

There are no 'different' versions of CAN bus - they are all the same since 1991 (CAN v2.0). The CAN FD, which came out in 2012, is backward compatible with v2.0. Your application (HU) doesn't have CAN FD.
This leaves me in confusion, only way to solve would be to connect a RCD510 to my car with canbus connection & see if that works. My current thought process after reading through the experience of pre-2012 Polo owners like Poloman is that RCD 510 will work with the pin#20 & 21 in my car. I will get hands on one 510 in a week to give that a shot post here.

Hypothetical but justified by experience of others - if RCD510 works with the CANBUS on PIN#20 & 21 on BCM - B module in POLO/Vento then why does the RCD/RCN 320 not work (if CAN versions are reverse compatible) ?
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Old 19th November 2014, 16:22   #15
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Default Re: Problems after DIY install - RCD/RCN 320 on Polo/Vento

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Originally Posted by callme9009 View Post
... Hypothetical but justified by experience of others - if RCD510 works with the CANBUS on PIN#20 & 21 on BCM - B module in POLO/Vento then why does the RCD/RCN 320 not work (if CAN versions are reverse compatible) ? ...
Do read up on CAN bus to clear the confusion - it is quite easy to visualize once you know the basics. We don't need to think about CAN Bus versions - it is not the way we know software versions.
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