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Old 22nd September 2006, 14:22   #46
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sorry for not replying all these days guys. heres the latest on my 'stuck button' situation. it still remains stuck cause i cant get a replacement free of cost. it didnt make any real difference to the sound anyway...so i just let it be.

now a new problem has surfaced. before i quote hte problem, i'll update u guys on my ICE config:

Pioneer 5xxx HU
Pioneer 6500 Equalizer
JBL GTO 937 Coaxials (rear)
JBL GTO 607 Components (front)
JBL GT 74.4 Amp (for subs + rear coax)
Pioneer 402 amp (for components)
2 Kenwood 500w Subs

now the rear speakers and subs are wired to the JBL amp and the front compos to the Pio. when i fade the sound to the rear (on my eq) the JBL amp cuts of and the red and blue indicators flash alternatively every 5-6 seconds !! when i fade it to the front and use my compos with the subds...its just fine. what seems to be the problem here ?! is it some wiring issue ?! the problem seems to originate from the rear coaxials...

i have not taken it back to my installer yet. sam, navin...could you help me with this ?!
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Old 22nd September 2006, 14:49   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NIP
i cant get a replacement free of cost.
Sorry to say "I told you so" but this is one major drawback of buying without B&W.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NIP
Pioneer 5xxx HU
Pioneer 6500 Equalizer
JBL GTO 937 Coaxials (rear)
JBL GTO 607 Components (front)
JBL GT 74.4 Amp (for subs + rear coax)
Pioneer 402 amp (for components)
2 Kenwood 500w Subs

now the rear speakers and subs are wired to the JBL amp and the front compos to the Pio. when i fade the sound to the rear (on my eq) the JBL amp cuts of and the red and blue indicators flash alternatively every 5-6 seconds !! when i fade it to the front and use my compos with the subds...its just fine. what seems to be the problem here ?! is it some wiring issue ?! the problem seems to originate from the rear coaxials...

i have not taken it back to my installer yet. sam, navin...could you help me with this ?!
I have highlighted your weak point (IMO) it adds unnecessary colour and distortion to the sound. ESP that particular model is murder.

If I understand correctly, your 75.4 is driving the 937s (with the stuck tweeter button) and 2 kenwood 500W woofers.

How have you connected the woofers? Is each woofer on one channel? (this is correct)
Or have you connected them both in parallel to one bridged channel?(this is wrong)
The reason that this is wrong, is that a bridged channel effectively "sees" half the impedance of a speaker. I can safely assume your kenwoods are 4 ohms. Now 4, parallel 4 is 2 ohms. 2 ohms in bridged mode effectively "shows" the amp 1 ohm. Not Good.

Secondly, I have a feeling, your tweeter button is "stuck" because you have fried the tweeter/mid assembly with your eq. If that is the case, you may have shorted the coils, or shorted a few turns of the tweeter coil. THis can be confirmed by using another pair of coaxials in the rear and seeing if the same phenomenon occurs.
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Old 22nd September 2006, 16:20   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi
If I understand correctly, your 75.4 is driving the 937s (with the stuck tweeter button) and 2 kenwood 500W woofers.

How have you connected the woofers? Is each woofer on one channel? (this is correct)
Or have you connected them both in parallel to one bridged channel?(this is wrong)
.
1. i'd use the 75.4 for the front and the subs.
2. i'd either use one sub per channel or wire the subs in series and bridge 2 channels of the 75.4
3. if you are driving the rear and the subs (esp if they are in parallel and the amp is bridged) you could be overloading the amp in 2 ways....

a) the 75.4 is not designed to drive 2 ohms subs (4//4) in bridged mode.
b) the (partially) shorted tweeter (if Sam is right) might have a lower impedance than 2ohms and that could also draw too much current from the 75.4.

So doing what is recommended above (points 1 and 2) might help.
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Old 22nd September 2006, 16:28   #49
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thanks guys. like navin says...i think i should drive the front compos and rear subs with the JBL. Will try this right away. I can do this myself as both the amps are located under the driver seat. Is this ok or do i need to take it back to the installer...will there be any complications if I do this myself ?! All i need to do is interchange the RC cords right ?!
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Old 22nd September 2006, 17:20   #50
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and dont you think that the equaliser is not required here ? does it equalise better than the HU itself ? unless you want more v in the eq band.
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Old 22nd September 2006, 17:27   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NIP
t All i need to do is interchange the RC cords right ?!
NO!!

If you change the RC cords, you will still be driving the same speaker with the same amp, only with the wrong signal.

You need to change the RC cords and the speaker connections too.
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Old 22nd September 2006, 20:02   #52
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@ nip; understand what the solution is frm the posts by Navin and Sam and THEN go to your installer. He had installed it in teh wrong way, which at first shouldnt have been done. So tell him how YOU want it connected and not on how HE want it connected.
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Old 22nd September 2006, 21:13   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navin
1. i'd use the 75.4 for the front and the subs.

So doing what is recommended above (points 1 and 2) might help.
Navin,dont u think it will be the same to what he is doing now?I mean now he has to replace his rear 939 with front components which infact will be more demanding on amplifier.

I think driving two subs with any 4-ch amplifier is just about fine but also adding anohter set of door spk will be asking for too much.
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Old 22nd September 2006, 21:55   #54
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sorry...sam...i think i confused things a bit here. what i meant was i'd interchange the connections (jacks) to the speakers on the amps since they're all located under the seat itself. i didnt mean i'd change the RC cables themselves...do you think i should try this and see if the amp takes the load ? besides...this problem just surfaced...i had no problems earlier. like you pointed out...i think the rear speakers might have got fried :( i dont mind replacing the speakers...in fact i think i'll go for components for the rear this time around.

rsjaurr...i really think the JBL GT 74.4 is quite capable of handling the rear subs and a pair of speakers. the current Pioneer 402 amp i'm using for the front compos is an old one and it just rocks ! and its nowhere close to the JBL in terms of power...

Last edited by NIP : 22nd September 2006 at 22:00.
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Old 23rd September 2006, 12:07   #55
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demands are dependant more on speaker imdepance than on power handling capability. i suspect the components will be LESS demanding than the 937s esp if the 937s have a damaged tweeter.
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Old 23rd September 2006, 15:09   #56
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the Pioneer X402 delivers 55x2 @ 4ohms and 125 x1 @ 4ohms.

what nip can do or has to (?) is to use the GTO75.4 in 3 channel mode such that his co-ax gets fed from two channel (142Wx2 @2ohm) and the other two channels has to be bridged to run th subs(284W @ 4ohm). (read sam's post for how to bridge/ run the subs in parallel or series)

The problem lies in setting the gain levels.

navin; the 7 series are 2 ohm speakers.

Last edited by jkdas : 23rd September 2006 at 15:11.
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Old 24th September 2006, 13:30   #57
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went to my installer yesterday...my rear left coax had some problem...hes removed it in the hope of 'fixing' it. lets see how it goes. if i have any more trouble, i think i'll just go for components for the rear as well...i'm just not happy with the JBL coaxials. i cant understand how a JBL amp can fry JBL coaxials. there is no issue with wiring as my installer is one of the best in town and he knows what hes doing. agreed i have no B&W on the speakers, i was willing to take the risk. and now that i've highlighted the 'stuck buttons', it turns out lots of other guys have had the same issue with the speakers as well...!!
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Old 24th September 2006, 13:32   #58
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jkdas...heres what sam says about the 'bridged' connection. i'm confused.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi
How have you connected the woofers? Is each woofer on one channel? (this is correct)
Or have you connected them both in parallel to one bridged channel?(this is wrong)
The reason that this is wrong, is that a bridged channel effectively "sees" half the impedance of a speaker. I can safely assume your kenwoods are 4 ohms. Now 4, parallel 4 is 2 ohms. 2 ohms in bridged mode effectively "shows" the amp 1 ohm. Not Good.
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Old 24th September 2006, 15:00   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NIP
i cant understand how a JBL amp can fry JBL coaxials.
It's not the amplifier. I repeat. It's the Pioneer 6500 equalizer. Terrible piece of equipment that you really should not use.
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Old 25th September 2006, 11:12   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi
It's not the amplifier. I repeat. It's the Pioneer 6500 equalizer. Terrible piece of equipment that you really should not use.
what sam is saying that thae equalliser is stressing the tweeters out and once the tweeters got damaged (how the coils got partially shorted I dont know as tweeters normally go open when they die) they stressed the amp out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkdas
navin; the 7 series are 2 ohm speakers.
The 937 I think has a nominal impedance of 3 ohms. The 2 ohms impedance is only over a part of the operating range.
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