Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > In-Car Entertainment


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 9th August 2006, 09:06   #16
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: hyderabad
Posts: 51
Thanked: 24 Times
Default

what's the logic behind the color change? One color for grey market and another color for the legal channel market??? crazy stuff
wannabelean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th August 2006, 11:36   #17
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 27
Thanked: 3 Times
Thumbs up Grey market is different from Black market

Supposing that Pioneer is exporting to two neighbouring countries say, China and India.

Seeing the conditions of Chinese market, ther is a possibility that the product is offered by manufacturer at Market penetration pricing to get a toe hold/ foot hold into the market and for India prices could be higher. Chinese importer, after seeing arbitrage opportunity buys in china, exports to india legally by payment of duties. still product could be cheaper and could carry warranty etc as well. ( Black marketing is illegal and is smuggling.)
As far as Grey marketing is concerned, Manufacturers and Channel will have to discuss and agree on territory restrictions.
but even wiyth this, it is difficult to explain the price differential of 6000 rupees.



Quote:
Originally Posted by wannabelean
Other than the color of the faceplate I cant make out much. The grey one is silver in color and the legally marketed one is black in color. The grey market one costs around 9k where as the legally imported one costs around 15k. Thats a big *** 6K difference. But why so much? How much of you think this is true (this is what many car accesories guys have told me) that the lens is some cheap lens and hence the cheap price.

What do you think folks?
sukheshkumar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th August 2006, 12:02   #18
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 2,462
Thanked: 20 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sukheshkumar
Supposing that Pioneer is exporting to two neighbouring countries say, China and India.

Seeing the conditions of Chinese market, ther is a possibility that the product is offered by manufacturer at Market penetration pricing to get a toe hold/ foot hold into the market and for India prices could be higher. Chinese importer, after seeing arbitrage opportunity buys in china, exports to india legally by payment of duties. still product could be cheaper and could carry warranty etc as well. ( Black marketing is illegal and is smuggling.)
As far as Grey marketing is concerned, Manufacturers and Channel will have to discuss and agree on territory restrictions.
but even wiyth this, it is difficult to explain the price differential of 6000 rupees.
The unknown companies that black/grey import these units, tend to get their stuff in through under-invoicing, wrong classification and other such tactics. They bribe their way through the lower rungs of the system, and by the system catches on, they have already closed shop and are operating under a different name. Also, like Sam has already mentioned, a lot of this stuff is hand-carried as well.

Remember, the grey stuff you buy, doesnt have import duty (almost 40%) paid on it, nor any octroi (upto 10% in some parts) and no VAT (12.5%)... For the sake of this discussion, lets take the grey price of the Pio 6850, Rs 9k and add import duty 40%, and VAT 12.5%, which crosses 14k already... so why is 15k retail considered a high price?

In effect, the official importer earns lesser than the grey importers!!!
gunbir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th August 2006, 12:38   #19
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Faridabad
Posts: 6,814
Thanked: 294 Times
Default

Like under invoicing I have seen one example of a alloy wheel company there was a sticker on the box stating the prices of the wheel as Rs 750 and the shop keeper was selling it at 4000 per pcs....now how come this margin is there.......this is all a mystery .......

Also even I was offered a distributer ship of a ICE stuff company through a offical channel....things did not workout..
low_bass_makker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th August 2006, 13:09   #20
aZa
Senior - BHPian
 
aZa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Noida / Delhi
Posts: 1,595
Thanked: 17 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by low_bass_makker
Like under invoicing I have seen one example of a alloy wheel company there was a sticker on the box stating the prices of the wheel as Rs 750 and the shop keeper was selling it at 4000 per pcs....now how come this margin is there.......this is all a mystery .......
Hahah i have seen this too... i went to buy neons and some strobes the box had Rs300 written on them while he was selling it for Rs2800. Similarly for neons it had Rs30 Written on them and the dealer was selling it for 600Rs.
aZa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th August 2006, 13:42   #21
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 2,462
Thanked: 20 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aZa
Hahah i have seen this too... i went to buy neons and some strobes the box had Rs300 written on them while he was selling it for Rs2800. Similarly for neons it had Rs30 Written on them and the dealer was selling it for 600Rs.
Well, this is classic under invoicing... see the product may cost them 2000, bit for customs sake they declare it at 200... or so, claiming a retail of Rs 300. Baaki sab khila pila ke kar lete hain yeh... so instead of paying 40% on 2000, they only pay 40% on 200. This way, they make more profits and are able to price their product lower... Just know that even some large companies like Sony and other have cases pending against them on these counts... It is only 3-4 years later that customs dept investigates and then slaps them with the balance duty, penalties and interests amounting to several crores... While larger cos get caught sooner or later, the small ones keep shifting base to avoid the law and they stay in business...

Last edited by gunbir : 9th August 2006 at 13:44.
gunbir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th August 2006, 16:13   #22
Senior - BHPian
 
esteem_lover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Madras/Py
Posts: 7,554
Thanked: 445 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi
The grey has no warranty. Other than that, unfortunately, they are the same product.
i know a couple of guys in chennai who provide warranty & free service for 1 year for all grey stuff. these guys are absolutely well established. they even send back the stuff, If it is worth it, to claim the original manufacturer's warranty from the country of origin. i installed a sony gt450s in my car in april/may 2006 & the lens got screwed up within a month & i took it back to the installer & without a blip, he asked me to choose a replacement & i chose the Sony mex 1. it was that fast & good. obviously he's been a professional grey marketeer for a very very long time.
esteem_lover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th August 2006, 17:34   #23
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Sam Kapasi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Mumbai (but wat
Posts: 6,989
Thanked: 1,452 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by esteem_lover
i installed a sony gt450s in my car in april/may 2006 & the lens got screwed up within a month & i took it back to the installer & without a blip, he asked me to choose a replacement & i chose the Sony mex 1. it was that fast & good. obviously he's been a professional grey marketeer for a very very long time.
Unfortunately, the mex 1 you bought, could have been returned by someone else. Think about that.
Sam Kapasi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th August 2006, 19:47   #24
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: India
Posts: 4,346
Thanked: 16 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by esteem_lover
i know a couple of guys in chennai who provide warranty & free service for 1 year for all grey stuff. these guys are absolutely well established. they even send back the stuff, If it is worth it, to claim the original manufacturer's warranty from the country of origin. i installed a sony gt450s in my car in april/may 2006 & the lens got screwed up within a month & i took it back to the installer & without a blip, he asked me to choose a replacement & i chose the Sony mex 1. it was that fast & good. obviously he's been a professional grey marketeer for a very very long time.
There's no glory in it. It can be done very easily (SAM has explained how).

As long as Grey is considered, it is the bad route! No matter how much anybody can justify.

I dont mean to say that I only buy everything with B&W, but if it can be avoided then that's the way to go. Buy originals with bill and drive around peacefully.
I had only fakes once (about 2 years ago). And slowly it matured to black\grey stuff. And now it's growing upto green!

It's now or later! One day everybody will understand the benefits of going for B&W. Some of us in the forum has learnt it the hard way though!
speedzak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th August 2006, 10:05   #25
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 389
Thanked: 128 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedzak
It's now or later! One day everybody will understand the benefits of going for B&W. Some of us in the forum has learnt it the hard way though!
Before you start reading this let me put a disclaimer that I do not support grey marketering, I am only putting down my thoughts as why grey market is so successful.

So what are the advantages of getting a B&W
- Peace of mind knowing that i have an original piece.
- Warranty for a year
- Insurance (if you want it insured then you have to have B&W)

Well everyone understands the benefit of going for B&W, its not that people dont understand the benefits, its just that is it worth that extra amount. For eg: A pioneer HU may cost 14K in white and 6-7K in the grey market. Now we know that 90% of the time there will be nothing wrong with the HU for atleast a year after which having a warranty also does no help and even if something does, the installer will generally repair or replace the unit as long as you have a Kacha bill. Now if my total budget for ICE is only 20K then this 6-7K saving is huge.

So how do you crack the grey market, the same way the computer industry is doing it, bridge the price gap between grey and white. This is only way available.

And remember when we ask our friend/relative to get us that special HU from abroad, we become part of that grey market, why because B&W is very country specific and becomes invalid when the unit is taken out of the country. Some companies offer international warranties, but then they charge you extra for it.
jinu_joseph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th August 2006, 10:45   #26
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Faridabad
Posts: 6,814
Thanked: 294 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jinu_joseph
So how do you crack the grey market, the same way the computer industry is doing it, bridge the price gap between grey and white. This is only way available.
there is no grey or white in computer it is assembled and branded.the prices difference is there becasue the branded system gives a OS and other softwares + asseembling charges and some times on site warrenty...but this is not in the case of grey. nearly all the computer stuff avalable in india is through the offical channel that is with bill and warrenty......
low_bass_makker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th August 2006, 11:00   #27
BHPian
 
speedofreak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Dilli
Posts: 104
Thanked: Once
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by low_bass_makker
there is no grey or white in computer it is assembled and branded.the prices difference is there becasue the branded system gives a OS and other softwares + asseembling charges and some times on site warrenty...but this is not in the case of grey. nearly all the computer stuff avalable in india is through the offical channel that is with bill and warrenty......

na, na na re naa re .......no way Guru LBM .....i bought ma Harddisk(seagate),RAM,Snps all grey .....albeit mother-board &Cpu i bought With B&w.....Butt..iam..100% sure u can them in grey....
speedofreak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th August 2006, 11:20   #28
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Faridabad
Posts: 6,814
Thanked: 294 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedofreak
na, na na re naa re .......no way Guru LBM .....i bought ma Harddisk(seagate),RAM,Snps all grey .....albeit mother-board &Cpu i bought With B&w.....Butt..iam..100% sure u can them in grey....
oh ho i am not a guru first......from where did u got the hdd and ram in grey and what were there costs........normally what u pay in nehru place includes every thing in it the 4% vat and b/w and everything, even a 40 gb seagate hdd comes for 1.8k with 5years warrenty.....now how much u got it for ....hmmmm 1- 1.2 k then it is ok that will be considred grey.......
low_bass_makker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th August 2006, 12:16   #29
Senior - BHPian
 
esteem_lover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Madras/Py
Posts: 7,554
Thanked: 445 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi
Unfortunately, the mex 1 you bought, could have been returned by someone else. Think about that.
u r right, sam, but dont tell me the "reputed" dealers do not do the same (I am sure u dont, what about the others). This swapping is really dependant on the personality, it doesn't matter what stuff he is selling, he will do the same. There are quite a few companies willing to do just that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by low_bass_makker
there is no grey or white in computer it is assembled and branded.the prices difference is there becasue the branded system gives a OS and other softwares + asseembling charges and some times on site warrenty...but this is not in the case of grey. nearly all the computer stuff avalable in india is through the offical channel that is with bill and warrenty......
yes, computer spares are still available in the grey & so are mobile phones...but the crucial difference here is there is hardly a few hundred rupees difference between the 2. whereas in car audio, it is double..this is precisely the point jinu was makin earlier on, i.e when u can buy a grey for half the price & it conks on the 367th day, u have 2 choices...1. get it repaired...2. get a new one...when a B&W stuff conks on the 367th day, u have the same 2 choices listed above... it is only how much u lose.....

Last edited by esteem_lover : 10th August 2006 at 12:18.
esteem_lover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th August 2006, 14:31   #30
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Sam Kapasi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Mumbai (but wat
Posts: 6,989
Thanked: 1,452 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by esteem_lover
u r right, sam, but dont tell me the "reputed" dealers do not do the same (I am sure u dont, what about the others). This swapping is really dependant on the personality, it doesn't matter what stuff he is selling, he will do the same. There are quite a few companies willing to do just that.

....
My friend....

Firstly I am not a dealer. I represent an audio company.

He is a dealer/reseller. If you buy a pioneer HU with b&w, he will send it back to the company. Who have no need to give it back to you, as it comes out of their service write-off budget. It will either be repaired correctly, in case of a minor defect, or simply broken up for spare parts.

When you buy grey, there is no company back-up and no warranty. He simply has no one to call. He earned 200 bucks on the unit, he is not going to write it off! He will not even send it to the pioneer authorised centre for repair. No, my friend, he will either sell off the unit you returned, as it is to the next guy, OR get it repaired from the guy down the street.

When you buy with b&w, the dealer promptly sends the defective unit back to the company, and the company profusely apolgises, promptly fixes (with TRAINED service, OR issues credit for the defective unit)
Sam Kapasi is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Difference between old engines and new engines (petrol and diesel) srijit Technical Stuff 32 26th January 2011 10:20
Difference between Iridescent & Pearlescent Paint? Epic Modifications & Accessories 15 11th May 2010 19:52
Difference between Poineer 6850 & 6950 HU saurabhkum In-Car Entertainment 16 27th May 2009 18:12
Difference between horns & compos! chiragh_bir In-Car Entertainment 7 19th May 2009 01:02
Difference between MSR & ABS jerish666 Technical Stuff 14 1st January 2008 11:30


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 06:26.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks