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Old 10th August 2006, 14:49   #31
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mobile phones have larger volume. much larger.
mobile phones cant be broken up and imported like car audio can hence there is less opportunity to under invoice.

I have seen the grey market ruin the official audio market for many years. The official dealer builds a brand and the grey market undercuts them and eats the cream.

Suffice to say that the situation is quite bad. I can't say more publicly but it burns me up. Sam and B&T will uderstand my sentiment. Audio might not be my livelihood but it is my life.
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Old 10th August 2006, 15:17   #32
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I guess we'll have to wait for the market to mature & also some government policies to change. If you guys remember approximately 3-4 years back nobody bought mobiles with B&W. Everyone bought from the grey market simply because the duties & taxes were too high & as a result the price difference at times was upto or more than 50%.

But then Govt. policy changed & the duties were reduced, subsequently the majority of the buying public started purchasing mobiles with B&W. Today the situation is such that majority of mobiles sold are with B&W and the grey market though not wiped out is in a minority.

I guess it's all of a question of time before the Audio industry goes the same way too.

P.S. Just remembered for my last 3 cars all audio has been with B&W. No grey market stuff has been bought YAY!!
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Old 10th August 2006, 19:52   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi
When you buy grey, there is no company back-up and no warranty. He simply has no one to call. He earned 200 bucks on the unit, he is not going to write it off! He will not even send it to the pioneer authorised centre for repair. No, my friend, he will either sell off the unit you returned, as it is to the next guy, OR get it repaired from the guy down the street.
True dat. How many of you who are running "grey stuff" in their cars are 100% sure your stuff isnt used / refurbished / assembled in India / manufacturer's B stock? Must I remind you of Xtreme Torque who was duped by a reliable dealer into buying a second hand pioneer HU for 16k or so... And XT had no clue... All his other stuff was with B&W and there were no issues with that stuff.

Last edited by gunbir : 10th August 2006 at 19:54.
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Old 10th August 2006, 19:58   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iraghava
I guess we'll have to wait for the market to mature & also some government policies to change. If you guys remember approximately 3-4 years back nobody bought mobiles with B&W. Everyone bought from the grey market simply because the duties & taxes were too high & as a result the price difference at times was upto or more than 50%.

But then Govt. policy changed & the duties were reduced, subsequently the majority of the buying public started purchasing mobiles with B&W. Today the situation is such that majority of mobiles sold are with B&W and the grey market though not wiped out is in a minority.
Ishan, telecom is one of the backbones of any country's infrastructure and thus important for our Govt. Unfortunately, cars and accessories will always remain a luxury segment and taxed accordingly.

It is only when we have ZERO import duty that we can do away with the grey market. And sadly, thats not gonna happen annyyytime soon...
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Old 10th August 2006, 20:04   #35
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Gunbir,any idea how much is custom duty on car audio stuff?I cant beleive if its 40% as to best of my knowledge maximum duty for any item is 20%.
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Old 10th August 2006, 22:00   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsjaurr
Gunbir,any idea how much is custom duty on car audio stuff?I cant beleive if its 40% as to best of my knowledge maximum duty for any item is 20%.
RSJ 20% is only the basic duty, along with countervailing duty, cess etc, we pay around 39% on the landed cost plus clearing charges.
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Old 11th August 2006, 09:47   #37
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Gunbir, I dont think even 0% import duty will do. THere are some who will sell grey just to avoid sales tax and excise (CVT) etc. and some who buy grey ONLY becuase their "other" income needs disposal.

There was a time when India had very high taxes and a certain section of society got habituated to avoiding ALL taxes. I know some who drive (or are chauffered in) Honda Accords and Mercedes Benzes and dont even have PAN numbers. I am quite sure the situation is worse in Delhi.

It will take generations (if at all) for this to change.

Last edited by navin : 11th August 2006 at 09:49.
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Old 11th August 2006, 11:41   #38
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hi navin,if we get stuff from online shops like crutchfield etc how much duty we have to pay.
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Old 11th August 2006, 15:02   #39
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incl clearing agents fees figure on it costing you rs. 100 per $. so a $200 item will cost a bit less than 20,000. Maybe Rs. 18,000. depending on your clearing agent.
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Old 11th August 2006, 17:01   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navin
incl clearing agents fees figure on it costing you rs. 100 per $. so a $200 item will cost a bit less than 20,000. Maybe Rs. 18,000. depending on your clearing agent.
aha !!! now i know navin just moonlights as an audio guy here in TBHP...now we all know what his real profession is. navin, the taxman !!! lol!!!
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Old 11th August 2006, 17:41   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navin
Gunbir, I dont think even 0% import duty will do. THere are some who will sell grey just to avoid sales tax and excise (CVT) etc. and some who buy grey ONLY becuase their "other" income needs disposal.

There was a time when India had very high taxes and a certain section of society got habituated to avoiding ALL taxes. I know some who drive (or are chauffered in) Honda Accords and Mercedes Benzes and dont even have PAN numbers. I am quite sure the situation is worse in Delhi.

It will take generations (if at all) for this to change.
unbeleiveble..............did u read it in some newspaper....

this is what i read yesterday in 'The Tribune',north India's best selling englisg newspaper.
So Indian govt and tax dept r planning to make a new law acc. to which tax dept can tax these kind of person depending upon what they own and do and not what they show in their IT return.

They also gave an expamle of some businessman from mumbai with name changed that he goes to US for holidaying and meet his daughter 2-3 times per yr with whole family and owns 3-4 very high-end cars like u mentioned and still mention his income as 2.50lac.

Even bigger companies like Reliance do the same and then file cases in court which takes decades to slove and by that time they have doubled/tripled it by investing it and able still get some compensation or or pay the tax without interest.

And we all know what FBT is......this yr after budget all TV chaneels led by CNBC made so much hue & cry about it as all of them were being affected by it.

Isn't it a shame that my class 4,who make tea for us and clean the dispensary and chairs has to file an IT return,my pharmacist who earns around 15k per month and had to get loan from bank to replace his 10yr old scooter and pay around 6-7k tax but this businessman pay very negligible tax.....


sorry mods for OT but i just got emotional........
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Old 11th August 2006, 18:05   #42
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well, i bought my Pioneer 7650 in 2004 for 10k (grey)
haven't faced a single problem till today!
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Old 12th August 2006, 11:26   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsjaurr
unbeleiveble..............did u read it in some newspaper....

this is what i read yesterday in 'The Tribune',north India's best selling englisg newspaper.
So Indian govt and tax dept r planning to make a new law acc. to which tax dept can tax these kind of person depending upon what they own and do and not what they show in their IT return........
It wont help and will only give the ITO more teeth to harass the few honest taxpayers.

a) the businessman who has these cars probably has not registered the cars in his name.
b) The holidays he takes are probably paid for in cash.

etc...
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Old 12th August 2006, 11:44   #44
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I am told the distributor and retailer margins in the US and other countries almost three times that prevailing in India?? ... that too at street prices -- despite them selling lower than the listed MSRP of a product.... therefore considering something with a listed MRSP of 100 will actually cost the Distributor around 45 max, should it not be still possible to sell the same thing in India at the MSRP or about 10% over it and yet not hurt the economics??

A company in addition can do more for supporting/getting an entry into a new country/market.

Last edited by kb100 : 12th August 2006 at 11:45.
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Old 12th August 2006, 15:08   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kb100
I am told the distributor and retailer margins in the US and other countries almost three times that prevailing in India?? ... that too at street prices -- despite them selling lower than the listed MSRP of a product.... therefore considering something with a listed MRSP of 100 will actually cost the Distributor around 45 max, should it not be still possible to sell the same thing in India at the MSRP or about 10% over it and yet not hurt the economics??
Your post is like an answer in an examination where the question posed was thus..

Q. Explain in brief, the reason why Mr. Ajay aka B&T still lives below the poverty line. (10)



Full Marks.
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