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Old 9th June 2015, 14:24   #1
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Default ICE upgrade : VW Jetta

So if you had followed my thread last year, I bought the Jetta. But unlike the Audi's & Skoda the stock RCD 510 with 8 speakers on Jetta "sucks"!!!

Having to live with the car for another 3 years, I have decided to bite the bullet and go for an audio upgrade. I understand I would be forgoing my electrical warranty but thats fine. I just need better sound.I plan to retain the stock head unit. However I am like totally confused. I was extremely happy with the sound of my new Ford Fiesta with the mids being really nice. For that matter even stock Ciaz sounds better (more fuller) then stock Jetta.

So now I have a few options:

Option 1 Speaker Swap: Soumatrix Speakers/Focal VW 160 speaker upgrade in Jetta. Straight swap. Will this be good enough? Will I get same quality as my stock Fiesta had?


Option 2 Complete system upgrade (Sourcing from US):

Line Output Converter: Now this is where I am totally confused. There are passive LOC, there are active LOC's with bass restoration, there are active LOC's with equalizers and time correction. What do I need?

I was totally unhappy with passive LOC upgrade on my Honda City with stock head unit. I don't want that crap. I can source things directly from US. You have active LOC's for subwoofer like Audiocontrol L2Q and then you have multichannel like Audiocontrol L6Q and then you have really high end 300 dollar plus systems. Which one do I need and which is most bang for the buck and would Indian installer be able to handle it.

Is this where I spend most money? What is different between Line Drivers, Equalisers and Factory Sound Processors? Which one do I need which is most VFM and restores mids and bass and can support front speakers, rear speakers and a subwoofer.

Speakers
Jetta comes with 8 speakers but I am thinking of components in front and co-ax at back. This is fairly easy. I am thinking of going Polks here for 150 dollars for front and co-ax for 100 dollars rear.

Amplifier
I don't like really powering bass but my experience with powering only 2 speakers via amp is not great. So am thinking for going high end 4 channel amp using first 2 channels for 4 speakers and and rear channels bridged for woofer. Or I can go for a mid range 5 channel amplifier. Which is better for the same price a slightly higher end 4 channel or a mid range 5 channel amplifier. Spending upto 300 dollars here.


Woofer
I will source locally. Any recommendation in 8-10k.

Finally is going down this path worth and how difficult is it to work with Jetta given warranty issues, install difficulties etc. I would be going either to Aman in Rajouri Garden or Driven in South Delhi for install and don't mind paying top dollar for the install.

Last edited by aseem : 9th June 2015 at 14:31.
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Old 9th June 2015, 16:50   #2
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Default re: ICE upgrade : VW Jetta

Its not at all recommended to power 4 speakers (front and back) using the 2 power channels from a 4 channel amp. Either you power front and back using 4 and a mono amp for a sub or power only the front and use the bridged channel for sub

Last edited by ::CMS:: : 9th June 2015 at 16:51.
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Old 10th June 2015, 16:56   #3
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Default re: ICE upgrade : VW Jetta

Quote:
Originally Posted by aseem View Post
.
Having to live with the car for another 3 years, I have decided to bite the bullet and go for an audio upgrade. .
=====================
Finally is going down this path worth and how difficult is it to work with Jetta given warranty issues, install difficulties etc. I would be going either to Aman in Rajouri Garden or Driven in South Delhi for install and don't mind paying top dollar for the install.
Aseem,

Before you source anything from the US I would advise you to first check the products and prices available in India. That said....

It seems to me that you might know what you want but are trifle confused as to how to get there.

Audiocontrol makes good stuff but when it comes to DSPs I'd bet on the Alpine H800 or Audison Bit 1 or something along those lines. If you are intending to add external amplifiers and intend to spend on active LOCs and EQs, a DSP route may be faster, cheaper and would give better results. The 2 models I suggested above will run you in the range of $600. It these are too rich, Audison has a Bit 10 and Alpine has the H510 (or you can see if you can find the older H650). The limitation of the lesser prices ($350 or so) models is largely that they are limited to 5 channels (vs 7/8 for the higher models).

There are other brands like Rockford (360.3), Brax/Helix (related companies each with their own product) etc. I have had poor experience with the older 360 (from RF) and no experience with Brax or Helix. I believe at least one of them has an integrated 100W rms amp much like the 30W rms amp JBL's MS8 (now discontinued) had.

Once you have processed your signal you will need to amplify the signal to feed your new speakers (yes you will need to upgrade the speakers too). There are myriad of reasonably priced options here from JBL, Focal and Kenwood, Alpine and moving up to companies like Audison and JL Audio and beyond (there is no limit to the craziness- I have seen vaccum tube car amplifiers). For a $300 budget Alpine, Kenwood, and Focal is what you should look at.

The final link is the audio chain are your speakers. Again you can start with Focal, Morel, Boston, Polk and see what suits your taste. A pair of components for the front, coax for the rear and a decent subwoofer in a box can set you back 25K+.

Hope this helps. Once you start firming up your ideas we can help with model numbers and the like.

Last edited by Jaggu : 11th June 2015 at 12:11. Reason: Cutting short the Quote.
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Old 10th June 2015, 17:56   #4
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Default re: ICE upgrade : VW Jetta

Since you are not looking for anything too fancy, I would suggest you go for plug and play stuff. The Focal components for VW would give you a good boost in sound. If you want something more I think Vagtune sells a Dynaudio audio upgrade for the VWs/Skodas.
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Old 10th June 2015, 21:00   #5
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Default re: ICE upgrade : VW Jetta

Quote:
Originally Posted by aseem View Post
So if you had followed my thread last year, I bought the Jetta. But unlike the Audi's & Skoda the stock RCD 510 with 8 speakers on Jetta "sucks"!!!

Having to live with the car for another 3 years, I have decided to bite the bullet and go for an audio upgrade. I understand I would be forgoing my electrical warranty but thats fine. I just need better sound.I plan to retain the stock head unit. However I am like totally confused. I was extremely happy with the sound of my new Ford Fiesta with the mids being really nice. For that matter even stock Ciaz sounds better (more fuller) then stock Jetta.

So now I have a few options:

Option 1 Speaker Swap: Soumatrix Speakers/Focal VW 160 speaker upgrade in Jetta. Straight swap. Will this be good enough? Will I get same quality as my stock Fiesta had?


Option 2 Complete system upgrade (Sourcing from US):

Line Output Converter: Now this is where I am totally confused. There are passive LOC, there are active LOC's with bass restoration, there are active LOC's with equalizers and time correction. What do I need?

I was totally unhappy with passive LOC upgrade on my Honda City with stock head unit. I don't want that crap. I can source things directly from US. You have active LOC's for subwoofer like Audiocontrol L2Q and then you have multichannel like Audiocontrol L6Q and then you have really high end 300 dollar plus systems. Which one do I need and which is most bang for the buck and would Indian installer be able to handle it.

Is this where I spend most money? What is different between Line Drivers, Equalisers and Factory Sound Processors? Which one do I need which is most VFM and restores mids and bass and can support front speakers, rear speakers and a subwoofer.

Speakers
Jetta comes with 8 speakers but I am thinking of components in front and co-ax at back. This is fairly easy. I am thinking of going Polks here for 150 dollars for front and co-ax for 100 dollars rear.

Amplifier
I don't like really powering bass but my experience with powering only 2 speakers via amp is not great. So am thinking for going high end 4 channel amp using first 2 channels for 4 speakers and and rear channels bridged for woofer. Or I can go for a mid range 5 channel amplifier. Which is better for the same price a slightly higher end 4 channel or a mid range 5 channel amplifier. Spending upto 300 dollars here.


Woofer
I will source locally. Any recommendation in 8-10k.

Finally is going down this path worth and how difficult is it to work with Jetta given warranty issues, install difficulties etc. I would be going either to Aman in Rajouri Garden or Driven in South Delhi for install and don't mind paying top dollar for the install.

Firstly, You have so many available in India that you donot have to source from the US unless you really want to. I have seen so many setups in Bangalore which are mind blowing in sound quality and clarity running upto 3L+. Believe me people spend a lot of money on car Audio.

Secondly, check how the install would be done to know whether there would be splicing the wires or cutting and reconnecting them. If the latter option comes into picture, you might have other issues since there are lot of electronics involved in your car. Check with VW as well. A good installer will save you lot of unwanted headache and $$$.

Few suggestions:

1. The player plays a major part for a good sound quality though there are quite few options to improvise the sound quality through a Active LOC. If your player has good sound output but doesnt have good supporting speakers or Vice versa will not give you good results. If you are not a complete Audiophile and want to build the car audio step by step, then the below suggestions could actually help you have good options for audio upgrade with a good sound stage. Please check whether the player has 3 pre-outs which will support the subs. Factory players usually have only 2 pre-outs and restrict upgrades like the custom setup mentioned now.


2. Easiest option is Considering IF you can change your player to a good 6" or 7" touch screen (I doubt whether the dash supports it) with 24 bit DAC and time alignment features which will help in good sound staging in the car. Pioneer has some good models with time alignment (available in India) and are VFM. Kenwood too(not sure whether the models shown in the website are available in India) Check with dealers if they can source it for you or if any of your contacts in US can actually get you a genuine product and whether it fits your budget. Further since you have a 8 speaker setup this can actually help for a much better sounding audio in the car.

3. The factory speakers are matched based on the player's performance and rating, hence they sound good with factory players. Changing of speakers can actually make a lot of difference with adding of a good 4 channel Amp for the speakers and a Mono amp for the Sub(if you want 2 sets of speakers in the doors and the sub). If you wish to have 3 pair or more or want to utilise the 8 speaker option then adding of another 4 channel amp comes into picture. The installer will be able to let you know how this can be utilised.This would be an ideal setup. Probably two sets of components in the doors and a Sub should give you a very good sound quality in terms of clarity. Its very important that the Amp and the speakers match up well in terms of power output and Power rating. Amplifiers are the ones which will actually contribute for a better sound quality, do invest in a good pair of Amps, you can always build your setup on them later when you need to improvise and have more clarity in sound depending on your taste.

3. The quality and MM thickness of the wires used for connecting the overall setup makes a lot of difference too. I am not sure about this but when I was setting up my audio, I had a discussion about this with my friend who actually setup my audio. Usually a 4mm thickness is used for most setups. If the setup is too powerful or very strong performing products are used, then Using anything above that thickness wire will help in carrying good amount of signals from the player to the speakers and amp to the speakers which is a must. This is an important part of audio setup.

4. You have very wide variety of options for good speakers and amp depending on the $$$ you wish to spend. So decide on a budget first.

5. Damping of doors if required can also add to the better sound quality inside the cabin, I think it might not be required in your Jetta though but if it can add to the quality of sound then why not.

6. For Amps you have options from Diamond, Arc Audio (KS Mini) and Cerwin Vega which are VFM products. There are more from JL audio which arent easily available in Bangalore, see if you have options in Delhi. Arc Audio KS mini is the one I use and it has a variety of options for sound staging of each channel with very good power rating.

7. For Components, you have options from the same brands above which are again VFM products they can even sustain a higher RMS based on amp's power too without any compromise of sound quality. Few suggestions for high end are German Maestro(not easily available), Focal high end series, few models in DLS also available now and the ones mentioned in this thread earlier.

8. If you can get hold of any unique Old Amps like hifonics which are very good then nothing would beat the sound quality of those amps. These are of audiophile grade. I have personally heard setups with stock players in Verna and Punto's which actually sound very good with right set of speakers and amps and proper tuning.

9. Consider searching of few threads with high end setups on this forum, I recollect a VW Polo with a very good Alpine player and setups costing around 1.5L.

10. Most Important - I would suggest you to get hold of a good installer who has good knowledge and reputation in these works. Usually they help you decide what you actually want. You can also get in touch with Blueraven on this forum for information.

Hope this information helps you decide on getting what you want. Fellow TBHPians are always more knowledgeable in anything on this forum. So feel free to search as many threads and read through, am sure you will decide yourself.
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Old 11th June 2015, 12:29   #6
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Default re: ICE upgrade : VW Jetta

Quote:
Originally Posted by aseem View Post
Line Output Converter: Now this is where I am totally confused. There are passive LOC, there are active LOC's with bass restoration, there are active LOC's with equalizers and time correction. What do I need?.
Further to all the information in the posts above, there is a lost of most of the factory integration processors on Post 14 here.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/produc...ml#post3290123


Sunsh!nes, Blueraven is in Bangalore and Aseem in Delhi surely you can't expect him to travel that distance for ICE.
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Old 11th June 2015, 16:44   #7
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Default re: ICE upgrade : VW Jetta

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
Further to all the information in the posts above, there is a lost of most of the factory integration processors on Post 14 here.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/produc...ml#post3290123


Sunsh!nes, Blueraven is in Bangalore and Aseem in Delhi surely you can't expect him to travel that distance for ICE.
I know , just thought if a phone call could help him better or inputs on this forum could help.
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Old 12th June 2015, 11:51   #8
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Default re: ICE upgrade : VW Jetta

Thanks everyone on the inputs. Please note that I don't have a very big budget and need to make a budget system (I am a poor audiophile). I have soo many speakers at home and in my cars but I get bored. Its more about satisfaction of building and having it when I need it. Having said that I think I have a little bit more information about what my plan is. I have decided on the following and need your suggestions for replacement or other options within the same budget (there or thereabout):

LOC
I have decided to go for an active input LOC that rebuilds the frequencies that stock audio system removes and also factors in for bass roll-off by stock HU at high volumes. Now there are fancy ones that like JBL MS8 with time shift, equalisers, etc. etc. But they are upwards of 300 dollars.

I really liked the JL Audio cleansweep (JL Audio CL441DSP CleanSweep) however the problem with that unit is that the volume controls are no longer functional and you need to use the audio knob provided by JL. Thats a no go.

Product details below:

http://www.amazon.com/JL-Audio-CL441...io+clean+sweep

At the bare minimum what I need:

- Remote turn on by sensing speaker input
- Input normalisation and 6 channel output to amplifier
- Take 4 channel input and give a 6 channel output
- Factor in Bass Rolloff

I don't plan on opening the dash, take all inputs from front/rear door speakers. Therefore remote-sensing to turn on from speaker signal without running a remote wire is something I really need. With this and my low budget I have lasered down to AudioControl LC7i Budget: 125$

Link and prices below:

http://www.amazon.com/AudioControl-6...iocontrol+lc7i



Speakers:

Now the only challenge here is that I can't go for deep speakers that produce a lot of bass as there is a airbag sensor in the front door. Now I know that we close the doors with a lot higher thud but I need to make sure that the installer takes care while installing and properly secure the speaker as I don't want to end up with a 4 lakh bill if airbag deploys.

I had CTX65CS from Image Dynamics in my wife's Polo but they are very deep. So this time going with something cheap and good:

Polk Audio DB6501 for fronts: $ 112


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...A2JVCW1GQY516A

Polk Audio DB 651 rear: 60$

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...A2R3C9EKLQ57PZ

Other speakers considered:
Kenwood Kfc-P709Ps (Please advise if this is better or any other in price range)

Infinity Primus 6 1/2" (Staying away because I dislike harsh treble)

So total budget for speakers: $170$ (front and rears)

Do note here I partly agree with GTO that spending tons on ICE is a big no no as eventually you get bored. But where I respectfuly disagree is not spending anything at all. I want a "good" system better then stock but not a audiophile grade system.

Amplifier
If I could spare 400 dollars I would have gone for Alpine PDX-V9 but I am stingy. So decided to go for SoundStream 5 channel class D amplifier for $150. It gets warm but other then that the reviews are respectable.

Soundstream PN5.640D Picasso Nano Price 145$

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...=AYCKWWT7STRSO


Subwoofer

I already have IDQ10V3.D2 - Image Dynamics 10" that I will reuse. So no damage done on the sub.

The idea is to open the front/rear doors and take the speaker wire and feed it into AudioControl LC7i which would turn on by sensing the speaker inputs. It would then trigger the amps (it has remote output) and the amp would turn on. This way I won't open the dash and no wire would be cut at stereo level. I would just create a coupler from the stereo wires and feed it into LC7i.

Total damage would be around 450 dollars and of course local installation etc factored in, I should end up at around 600-700 dollars of total damage. Which is 42,000 Rs. So I think thats a VFM. Sourcing from US is also important as most installers start charging higher prices or recommending expensive products by looking at the car. You tell them its a Vento prices change, you tell them its a Jetta prices go up.

Locally sourced better speakers and equipment would cost me around 1,00,000 and I don't want to do a 6 figure install.

Does the plan and choice look good and would it sound better then stock? How can things like alternator noise be avoided. Lastly any better suggestion in the given budget, there or thereabouts?

Thanks.

Last edited by aseem : 12th June 2015 at 11:58.
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Old 8th July 2015, 09:30   #9
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Default re: ICE upgrade : VW Jetta

Ok so the project is going on and I have ordered a few items and still in process of sourcing others. The following items I have ordered:

1. Sosche Radio Wiring Harness

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...=ATVPDKIKX0DER

2. Socsche Radio Reverse Wiring Harness

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...=AJ6MCC7J538IG

3. Rockford Fosgate Speakerline to RCA

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ilpage_o00_s00


For Amplifier I am considering Rockford Fosgate R600X5 (5 Channel Amplifier):

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...A1SX1R00E2EUMR

^^ Getting this locally at around 19,000 Rs (not negotiated).

Now coming to the meat of my query. I read the following:

http://www.my-gti.com/1411/volkswage...tory-amplifier

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...plifier-theory

Now as per this RCD 510 is capable of giving directly low level to the amplifier and all I need a speaker wire to RCA adapter. So I went ahead and ordered it.

However this thread below states that RCD 510 has floating ground and you still need an LOC:

http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90076

So I am totally confused. I went ahead and coded my car using VCDS instructions for Active Speaker configuration with linear EQ. My RCD 510 took the coding but I am still getting loud volume, if it had changed to "low level" shouldnt my volume go down?

I understand we can check this via multimeter so what exactly do I need to check and is the theory that RCD 510 can do low level true?

In addition some users mention that when they use Amplifier with RCD 510 in active speaker mode they get noise, what can this be from.

I am really hoping I can avoid a sound processor as it would help keep costs down. Thanks for help in advance.
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Old 8th July 2015, 16:35   #10
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Default re: ICE upgrade : VW Jetta

Quote:
Originally Posted by aseem View Post
Now as per this RCD 510 is capable of giving directly low level to the amplifier and all I need a speaker wire to RCA adapter. So I went ahead and ordered it.

However this thread below states that RCD 510 has floating ground and you still need an LOC:

My RCD 510 took the coding but I am still getting loud volume, if it had changed to "low level" shouldnt my volume go down?

In addition some users mention that when they use Amplifier with RCD 510 in active speaker mode they get noise, what can this be from.
Ok lets first get the terminology right.

High Level typically means speaker level and Low level typically means preamp level (RCA connectors most often used).

Now (I assume) that it seems that your RCD510 is programmed to deliver high level output directly to speakers but you want to add an amplifier between the RCD and the speakers and hence you want to lower the output of the RCD (which is what a typical hi-lo converter is designed to do).

From your post it looks like the RCD can be programmed to deliver lower output (“output stage power 26 dB” to “output stage line-out 12 dB" http://www.my-gti.com/1411/volkswage...tory-amplifier).

How are you sure that the volume of the RCD has actually gone down with your coding?
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Old 16th July 2015, 15:21   #11
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Default re: ICE upgrade : VW Jetta

Me being me... I have gone ahead and done some shopping. Still missing a few bits. Since bought from India the equipment is slightly pricier then expected. Here is the list I have so far:

1. Rockford Fosgate R600X5 : Rs.18,000 (13,000 Rs effective after cash-back)
2. JBL MS-62C: Rs. 12,500 (fronts)
3. Polk DB 651 Co-Axials: Gratis! (rears)
4. 4 Gauge Wiring kit : 1500 Rs
5. Rockford Fosgate Speaker Line To Female RCA Adapter * 2 : 1000 Rs
6. SOT 976/906 Connectors from AliExpress: 20 dollars including shipping and customs

Now items still remaining:

1. Not sure if I would end up needing an audio control LC2 or LC6. Still to test out if my car is actually giving RCA outs after being programmed. Have heard some noise issues, so if there is noise may need to go for LC6

2. AudioControl EpiCentre Bass Processor (125 dollars if local in US or 185 dollars India shipped). I really think I need this, but yet to take the plunge.

Total Damage so far:

Rs. 34,000

If I end up buying AudioControl EpiCenter then need to factor another Rs.12,000. So total damage excluding install is 46,000. Need to budget Rs.5000 for install and I come out pretty close to 50,000 Rs the budget I set out with.

As stated by GTO you don't have to break the bank on Audio but at the same time I am hoping this is a decent step up from the stock system.
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Old 2nd September 2015, 22:57   #12
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Smile Installing rear speakers in Comfortline Jetta

I just bough a new Jetta Comfortline and found out that there are no rear speakers in the car. I just want to install rear component speaker and nothing else. Are the wires going to the rear speakers already present in my rear doors? Does the OEM stereo (RCD 320) have option to add rear speakers or will I need to add a separate amplifier? What I want to do should require minimum changes in the car so that I can retain my warranty. Thanks in advance.
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Old 24th October 2015, 02:14   #13
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Default Re: ICE upgrade : VW Jetta

Can someone help me out here. I have Rainbow SL C6.2 components, Beat 4 amp, Rockford R1S4 - 12 sub, Rockford R250X4 amp, Pioneer components and a pioneer HU installed in my Brio.

Now I want to upgrade the stock system of Jetta HL 2012 model. What possible combinations can I make ?

1. Buying a 1-2k rs. Bluetooth device and using it through the ipod connector and adding a sub and an amp. Can I expect any sound improvement with this ? Also the steering controls will work with these kind of devices ?

2. Buying Blaupunkt 835 and adding one sub and one amp with the stock speakers. Maybe I can use my existing amp in this and just buy a new sub.

3. Blaupunkt 835 + Rainbow comps and beat 4 amp from Brio and a new sub woofer. Disconnecting all the stock speakers.

4. Blaupunkt 835 + Rainbow comps and beat 4 amp from Brio and a new sub woofer combined with the remaining stock speakers.

Can you guys please suggest me some options ? Brio is going to be up for sale soon and taking out the Rainbows will be a good deal in my opinion. But if good quality can be had with the stock speakers then that is my preferred choice here.

Also what happens to the RCD 510 ? Can I sell it somewhere ?
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Old 24th October 2015, 03:15   #14
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Default Re: ICE upgrade : VW Jetta

@metallicar,

This forum has some examples of different set ups. At the same time i would request you to search in tdiforum where technical details are also shared.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=379804

http://handcraftedcaraudio.com/2011-vw-jetta/

It would be better to check these forums because these are dedicated forums for TDI which is worshipped across the world and these users have gone through multiple upgrades and can guide on better approach by science as well.
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