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Old 13th August 2015, 11:36   #1
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Default ICE'ing up my Hyundai Verna

The ICE bug has bit me .The stock system on the Fluidic Verna is pretty decent but it lacks in the BASS department majorly. Strangely , although all the 4 OEM speakers are exactly the same 5.25" with 15 watt RMS , the rear speakers sound very low or very poorly even after fading everything to the rear.

I have been going over a lot of forums and threads but I still have just a few more doubts before I get all the parts ready for the install. Some of the threads I have gone through are mentioned below.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/sound-...velty-ice.html

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/ask-gu...upgrade-2.html

http://www.hyundai-forums.com/rb-201...ont-doors.html

http://www.hyundai-forums.com/rb-201...ent-guide.html

Anyways I got a few stuff's off of my other car which I don't use much, so thought of installing few of those stuff's here in my Verna. I would like to retain the Head Unit as I want the steering wheel and BT controls to remain intact.

Some of the old stuff's that I have are mentioned below with their power ratings.

1) Rear Speakers - JBL GTO 937 , 6"X9" 3 way ,2 Ohms 100 Watt RMS Oval Speakers.

2) Subwoofer 1 - JBL CS 1204T Bass Tube - 12" , 250 Watt RMS at 4 Ohms

3) Subwoofer 2 - Pioneer TS - W305F , 12" , 300 Watt RMS at 4 Ohms

4) Amplifier - Pioneer GM - 6200 F , 60 Watts RMS @ 4 Ohms or 75 Watt RMS @ 2 Ohms

Some of the things I am yet to buy to complete my setup are below. I will be shopping for the new stuffs entirely online , so please suggest brands that are available in India.

1) Front Component Speakers - Please suggest a brand between JBL , Rockford Fosgate and Infiniti in the price range of 10,000 Rs. The size should be either 5.25" or 6.5" with an RMS of 100 Watts @ 2 Ohms so that it can match my rear speakers. Hopefully my Pioneer Amp can support all the 4 speakers together.

2) Subwoofer Fully Closed enclosure - This is for the W305F sub which is a free air use sub. I believe a square sub will be perfect but I do not know what should be the exact dimensions/volume for the enclosure so as to get the best bass sound from this sub.

One person in this thread http://www.caraudioforum.com/showthread.php?t=351853 has suggested that the best volume would be 3.5ft³ enclosure, including sub-displacement with length 34", height 15.5" and depth 15.5". He calculated it from this thread http://www.bcae1.com/spboxnew2.htm

I think it will easily fit in my boot but most of our forum members go for a 1ft³ enclosure for the best sound from their 12" woofers. So I'm confused if I should go with 1ft³ or 3.5ft³ enclosure. Please advise on this.

3) Mono Block Amp - This will be either used only for the JBL bass tube or the Pioneer enclosed sub. I won't be using both the sub's together. Based on which sub sounds best , I will use that. Please suggest a good mono amp that can handle either of the subs at a price range of 10-12,000 Rs.

4) Hi-Low converter - Since I'm using the stock unit with just speaker level outputs , what would be the best converter to buy so that it can feed to both the Amps that I will be using. Price upto 3,000 Rs.

5) Wiring Kit - Please suggest any good wiring kit , good brand. Price upto 3,000 Rs.

6) Am I in the right track or is there anything else that I need to purchase ?

I have attached pics of my Pioneer Amp below so that you know what kind of wiring is needed.

ICE'ing up my Hyundai Verna-img_5535.jpg

ICE'ing up my Hyundai Verna-img_5537.jpg
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Old 14th August 2015, 15:53   #2
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Default Re: ICE'ing up my Hyundai Verna

Quote:
Originally Posted by stanjohn123 View Post
I would like to retain the Head Unit as I want the steering wheel and BT controls to remain intact.

Some of the old stuff's that I have are mentioned below with their power ratings.

1) Rear Speakers - JBL GTO 937 , 6"X9" 3 way ,2 Ohms 100 Watt RMS Oval Speakers.

2) Subwoofer 1 - JBL CS 1204T Bass Tube - 12" , 250 Watt RMS at 4 Ohms

3) Subwoofer 2 - Pioneer TS - W305F , 12" , 300 Watt RMS at 4 Ohms

4) Amplifier - Pioneer GM - 6200 F , 60 Watts RMS @ 4 Ohms or 75 Watt RMS @ 2 Ohms

1) Front Component Speakers - Please suggest a brand between JBL , Rockford Fosgate and Infiniti in the price range of 10,000 Rs.

2) Subwoofer Fully Closed enclosure - This is for the W305F sub which is a free air use sub.

One person in this thread http://www.caraudioforum.com/showthread.php?t=351853 has suggested that the best volume would be 3.5ft³ enclosure, including sub-displacement with length 34", height 15.5" and depth 15.5". He calculated it from this thread http://www.bcae1.com/spboxnew2.htm

I think it will easily fit in my boot but most of our forum members go for a 1ft³ enclosure for the best sound from their 12" woofers. So I'm confused if I should go with 1ft³ or 3.5ft³ enclosure. Please advise on this.

3) Mono Block Amp - This will be either used only for the JBL bass tube or the Pioneer enclosed sub. Please suggest a good mono amp that can handle either of the subs at a price range of 10-12,000 Rs.

4) Hi-Low converter - Since I'm using the stock unit with just speaker level outputs , what would be the best converter to buy so that it can feed to both the Amps that I will be using. Price upto 3,000 Rs.

5) Wiring Kit - Please suggest any good wiring kit , good brand. Price upto 3,000 Rs.
Stanjohn,

Firstly I am impressed with the quantum of research you have already done. It seems to me you have a clear idea of what you want and even have some of the parts of your system.

Lets get the easy stuff out of the way.

a. Check if the rear deck of your Verna can accommodate the 937
b. Compare the 305F and 1204 subwoofers and see which offers the best bass. Both tubes and Free air subs are known more for bass quantity than bass quality.
c. for the front components you can also check out Morel, Focal, and DLS (however between the 3 brands you mentioned I would go with Infinity).
d. For the monoblock check out Kenwood's 8106D or Pioneer's 7500M
e. For a hi-low converter ask your installer. This is a tricky topic and some brand work better than others in the same situation. It is often trial and error.
f. For the power cables you can use any good ISI brand 4 Gauge cable - Polycab is a good brand.
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Old 14th August 2015, 20:00   #3
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Default Re: ICE'ing up my Hyundai Verna

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Originally Posted by navin View Post

a. Check if the rear deck of your Verna can accommodate the 937
b. Compare the 305F and 1204 subwoofers and see which offers the best bass. Both tubes and Free air subs are known more for bass quantity than bass quality.
c. for the front components you can also check out Morel, Focal, and DLS (however between the 3 brands you mentioned I would go with Infinity).
d. For the monoblock check out Kenwood's 8106D or Pioneer's 7500M
e. For a hi-low converter ask your installer. This is a tricky topic and some brand work better than others in the same situation. It is often trial and error.
f. For the power cables you can use any good ISI brand 4 Gauge cable - Polycab is a good brand.
Thank you so much for your reply Navin.

a. You are right , a few people have mentioned difficulty in installing ovals at the rear parcel tray due to lower rear wind shield rake. I will try to find a solution for this.

b. I'm looking more for quality now. So if I put the 305F in a proper sealed enclosure with the correct volume (I'm still figuring out this) and proper amp will I get the quality needed ?

c. How is Hertz ESK 165.5 component compared to Morel , Focal and DLS ?. I believe the brands you have mentioned are very expensive and for my budget I can probably just get their entry level speakers.Please note I will be connecting these speakers to my Amp.

d. Thanks for this.

e. Honestly I don't trust any installer in my area with this at all. I am now planning to change my head unit to Pioneers double din touch screen unit , this way there will be enough pre outs , will have better clarity and no installer headaches. So I need to keep back 25,000 for this.

f. I don't think I will be able to find Polycab here down south. Will go with any ISI 4 gauge cables that is available locally.

I'm still trying to figure out if it will be a good idea trying to make a closed enclosure for the 305F in 1 cub ft or 3.5 Cub Ft. Need to search some more on this.

Last edited by stanjohn123 : 14th August 2015 at 20:18. Reason: grammatical error
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Old 16th August 2015, 14:47   #4
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Default Re: ICE'ing up my Hyundai Verna

I just realized that I don't really need an i/o converter as I already have speaker level inputs in my Pioneer GM - 6200F amp ( 2nd Pic ), hurray I think this is a much safer bet after reading this topic http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/ask-gu...onverters.html

I'll probably go with Kenwood's 8106D mono amp ( 300 Watt RMS ) now and for the front speakers I narrowed down to 2 brands as below.

1) Hertz ESK 165.5 speakers (90 watt RMS ) vs Focal R165 S2 ( 60 watt RMS ). Both are in the same price range , so going by the RMS rating , wouldn't Hertz be much better as it comes close to power rating with my rear speakers ?

2) Focal R165 S2 vs Focal 165 AS. Both have the same 60 watt RMS but price difference is huge, almost 4000 Rs. Is the AS really worth that much more ?

For the head units , I guess Pioneer don't make their units like they used to in the past. Reading a lot of issues here http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/produc...ries-bugs.html on the interface part and on online many facing issues with the removable front plate.Guess I have to decide something between JVC and Kenwood.
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Old 17th August 2015, 12:14   #5
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Default Re: ICE'ing up my Hyundai Verna

Quote:
Originally Posted by stanjohn123 View Post
b. I'm looking more for quality now. So if I put the 305F in a proper sealed enclosure

c. How is Hertz ESK 165.5 component compared to Morel , Focal and DLS ?. I believe the brands you have mentioned are very expensive and for my budget

f. I don't think I will be able to find Polycab here down south. Will go with any ISI 4 gauge cables that is available locally.

I'm still trying to figure out if it will be a good idea trying to make a closed enclosure for the 305F in 1 cub ft or 3.5 Cub Ft. Need to search some more on this.
The 305F will require a volume greater than 2cu. ft. as it is a free air subwoofer. In a smaller box the bass will be lumpy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stanjohn123 View Post
2) Focal R165 S2 vs Focal 165 AS.

Guess I have to decide something between JVC and Kenwood.
I have found the Hertz speakers I have heard too bright.

The DDX415BT gives you BT and 3 pre outs and should be in your price range.

I am pretty sure Polycab in available in TN
M/S POLYCAB WIRES PVT LTD,
New No: 8/6 old no:5 Josmans Building, 4th Floor,
MC Nichols Road, Chetpet,
Chennai – 600 031
Email : chennai@polycab.com
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Old 18th August 2015, 00:52   #6
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Default Re: ICE'ing up my Hyundai Verna

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The 305F will require a volume greater than 2cu. ft. as it is a free air subwoofer. In a smaller box the bass will be lumpy.
Yeah I think I will go with the 3.5 cu.ft mentioned in the other site that I found. Will give you the feedback once I have it installed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post

I have found the Hertz speakers I have heard too bright.
Ok so between the focals ( Focal R165 S2 vs Focal 165 AS ) which one should I go for ? The 4,000 I pay extra for the AS I can probably install some decent co-axials in the rear rather than the ovals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post

The DDX415BT gives you BT and 3 pre outs and should be in your price range.
Let me check this out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post

I am pretty sure Polycab in available in TN
M/S POLYCAB WIRES PVT LTD,
New No: 8/6 old no:5 Josmans Building, 4th Floor,
MC Nichols Road, Chetpet,
Chennai – 600 031
Email : chennai@polycab.com
Thanks for the info.Can you give me an estimate ( on the higher side ) how many meter cables will I need in total. I will try to contact them by mail and see if they can ship it to me. Chennai is actually 860 Kms away from where I reside , I'm nearer to Kanyakumari Kerala border
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Old 18th August 2015, 10:19   #7
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Default Re: ICE'ing up my Hyundai Verna

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Yeah I think I will go with the 3.5 cu.ft

Ok so between the focals ( Focal R165 S2 vs Focal 165 AS )

Thanks for the info. Can you give me an estimate ( on the higher side ) how many meter cables will I need in total.
3.5 cu. ft. is big for a car. Heck it is huge for an apartment too!

The S2 will do fine. If the 937 fits in the rear, use the money saved to damp the doors or treat yourself and your significant other for a nice dinner.

This is only power cable. There are 2 ways to power your amps.

a. Take both cables from the battery
b. Take a single set of cables from the battery and feed it to a distribution box then feed each amp of the distribution box. See links.
http://images.hpca.netdna-cdn.com/la...inger_dist.png
http://images.hpca.netdna-cdn.com/D/...ed-image-1.jpg

I prefer the later.

Last edited by navin : 18th August 2015 at 10:48.
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Old 18th August 2015, 16:45   #8
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Default Re: ICE'ing up my Hyundai Verna

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Originally Posted by navin View Post
3.5 cu. ft. is big for a car. Heck it is huge for an apartment too!

The S2 will do fine. If the 937 fits in the rear, use the money saved to damp the doors or treat yourself and your significant other for a nice dinner.

This is only power cable. There are 2 ways to power your amps.

a. Take both cables from the battery
b. Take a single set of cables from the battery and feed it to a distribution box then feed each amp of the distribution box. See links.
http://images.hpca.netdna-cdn.com/la...inger_dist.png
http://images.hpca.netdna-cdn.com/D/...ed-image-1.jpg

I prefer the later.
I just saw online what 3.5 cu.ft means w.r.t to boot space and it's really huge as you say. Well the W305 F is going to be up for sale in the classified section for cheap.

Thinking of selling the Ovals as well as I don't feel like cutting the rear parcel tray's metal parts.

The basstube is also very loud and I'm not sure that's what I want now since I'm a family man. So let me check my luck at selling it , if not I will try to make a sealed enclosure for it as there is already a similar model with JBL using the same subwoofer, the CS 1204B.

So the front speakers and amp are finalized.

For the power cable I will also go with the second option.
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Old 18th August 2015, 16:52   #9
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Default Re: ICE'ing up my Hyundai Verna

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The basstube is also very loud and I'm not sure that's what I want now since I'm a family man. So let me check my luck at selling it , if not I will try to make a sealed enclosure for it as there is already a similar model with JBL using the same subwoofer, the CS 1204B.
The 1204B can be used in a small 1.2cu. ft. box. It does not have the volume of bass the 305F does but given your limited requirements it might work.

Since you are using a monoblock amp for the 1204B you can try and tune the amp to produce the quality/quantity of bass you desire. It is easier than building a whole new box.
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Old 22nd August 2015, 14:59   #10
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The 1204B can be used in a small 1.2cu. ft. box. It does not have the volume of bass the 305F does but given your limited requirements it might work.

Since you are using a monoblock amp for the 1204B you can try and tune the amp to produce the quality/quantity of bass you desire. It is easier than building a whole new box.
So there is a small change of plans. I was in a huge dilemma whether to sell the CS 1204T or not and eventually sold it on olx today. The buyer seemed to like it a lot and kept hounding me with calls , so I thought of just selling it to him .( although I really didn't want to , What's wrong with me )

Anyways now I'm on a hunt for a good subwoofer since I will probably just sell the TS - W305F as well.

I'm looking at subs between 300-400 Watts RMS , 10 or 12 inch.Which do you think would sound best for me ? I want a tight clean bass punch. I have narrowed down to the following.

1) Rockford Fosgate P3D410
2) Rockford Fosgate P3D412
3) Infinity Kappa 120.9W
4) Infinity Reference 1262 W
5) Kicker 10CVR124


Anything good from Pioneer ?

I already know where this is heading. I just wanted to fix a new set of speakers to my OEM head unit and connect all the other stuff's that I had. But after continuous reading, I'm now even planning to upgrade the Head unit ( decided on the Kenwood DDX7015 BT ).

Almost Everything on this link is true and is happening to me http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/ask-gu...g-forum-6.html

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Originally Posted by SoundManiac View Post

2. Thou might delay your decision for a loooooooooong time


3. Thou might be led to severe addiction and Insomnia


5. Thou might never be satisfied.


6. Thou shall be robbed


9. Thou shall commit blasphemy
And for having converted you into this new religion of “Quality Sound” you may for a second deem our Audio Gurus Navin, Sam, Gunbir, Autophile etc who shall lead you from ignorance to bliss to be your Gods(of Music)!! ( Chalo! Kuch log to ande nahi maarenge)
I'm going to get broke real bad by the end of this
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Old 24th August 2015, 10:59   #11
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Default Re: ICE'ing up my Hyundai Verna

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3) Infinity Kappa 120.9W

I'm now even planning to upgrade the Head unit ( decided on the Kenwood DDX7015 BT
I have not heard the Rockford models but the 120.9 will wipe the floor with the 1262 or Kicker. If you can afford it get it.

The 7015 is super HU. All the best. This is really becoming a high end killer system.
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Old 24th August 2015, 16:42   #12
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I have not heard the Rockford models but the 120.9 will wipe the floor with the 1262 or Kicker. If you can afford it get it.
A lot of very positive reviews on the rockford fosgate P3 subs , I wanted the P3 D412 but only the P3 D410 seems available online now. The P3 D410 is around 9,000 rs including shipping and the Infiniti Kappa 120.9 is around 13,000 Rs. I will do a little more research and decide on either one.

I have one doubt regarding the Focal R165 S2 or Focal 165 AS speakers. Although on Focal website the size of these speakers are mentioned as 6.5 inch speakers , on crutchfield they mention it as 6.75 inch speakers and that it may not fit on my front doors. The online seller though insists that many Verna owners have installed it but I'm not ready to trust him. Will 6.75 inch speakers fit in the front with some slight modifications to the bracket ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
This is really becoming a high end killer system.
Thanks, but none of this would be possible without you .
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Old 24th August 2015, 17:15   #13
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I have one doubt regarding the Focal R165 S2 or Focal 165 AS speakers.
Will 6.75 inch speakers fit in the front with some slight modifications to the bracket ?
Most 6.5" positions can accommodate 6.75" drivers. Again I have not seen the Verna. If your installer is sure, ask him to show you an install (at least a picture of it). I don't have faith in online sellers they will say anything to book a sale.

Lastly see if you can get a listen to the Rockford sub, over the years (and I have been fooling around in audio for 40 years now - damn I am old), I have learnt to trust MY ears and not those of reviewers.

Last edited by navin : 24th August 2015 at 17:16.
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Old 25th August 2015, 23:16   #14
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Default Re: ICE'ing up my Hyundai Verna

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Most 6.5" positions can accommodate 6.75" drivers. Again I have not seen the Verna. If your installer is sure, ask him to show you an install (at least a picture of it). I don't have faith in online sellers they will say anything to book a sale.

Lastly see if you can get a listen to the Rockford sub, over the years (and I have been fooling around in audio for 40 years now - damn I am old), I have learnt to trust MY ears and not those of reviewers.
I think 6.75 inches will be ok , just need to get a slightly thicker spacer so that the speaker won't hit the window when it rolls down.

I really don't have the luxury of listening to these subwoofers , anything I want is not there with my local dealer for auditioning , they just have all the useless things as usual.

As per your really long experience () what else is close to the Infinity Kappa subwoofers but not priced above 12-13,000 Rs ? how are the Focal Subs like Focal Performance SB P 30 m it costs more , but if it's worth it , can consider.

Last edited by stanjohn123 : 25th August 2015 at 23:22. Reason: Added one more question
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Old 26th August 2015, 13:11   #15
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Default Re: ICE'ing up my Hyundai Verna

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As per your really long experience () what else is close to the Infinity Kappa subwoofers but not priced above 12-13,000 Rs ? how are the Focal Subs like Focal Performance SB P 30 m it costs more , but if it's worth it , can consider.
Infinity's 120.9 is hard to beat. The Focal Solid subwoofer (not the P30) I heard was more musical but did not have the headroom the 120.9 has. I'd stick to what I have heard and I have not heard Focal's P30.
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