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Old 25th August 2015, 15:10   #1
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Default ICE Upgrade : Tata Zest

Dear Gurus

The zest is the only car in the sub 4 meter segment with the superlative Harman system and 8 speakers (4 speakers & 4 tweeters). The sound quality is just superb. I had been enjoying the Zest XT with the touchscreen unit for over three months now and feel the need for a little extra thump.

The first and obvious choice was the 8 inch underseat active sub and zeroed in on the 'National' 8 incher, the Blaupunkt XLF 200. After listening to the same fitted in my friend's Bolt, i decided not to fit the same coz the thump delta was very marginal and marginal to the extent that the same was not recognizable when certain tracks were played.

So finally decided to go for a proper 12 inch sub and amp combo after spending considerable time researching on 12 inch active Boxes(not available in my budget) as i was not comfortable with too much of wiring.

The local shop suggested a 1800 W Sony woofer with a 2 channel Sony amp (for reasons best known to him) for Rs 8500.

Now the Dilemma starts.

1. Should i go for a Box or a Tube for Boot installation?
2. Which is the best brand among JBL, Pioneer, Blau and Sony ?
3. Is the 2 channel 500 W Sony AMP the right amp for a 1800 W sub?
4. Is 1800 W needed when the normal 12 inchers used in small sedans are 1200- 1300 W?
5. Is the bass controllable through the HU equalizer ? or should one play around with the amp for the same?
6. I may have to remove the box/tube for the occasional airport/ railway station runs so which sub/box is more compatible for that?

And finally my budget is 10 - 12 K

Will request experts to advice.

Last edited by SAE40 in veins : 25th August 2015 at 15:12.
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Old 26th August 2015, 13:09   #2
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Default re: ICE Upgrade : Tata Zest

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAE40 in veins View Post
Dear Gurus

The zest is the only car in the sub 4 meter segment with the superlative Harman system and 8 speakers (4 speakers & 4 tweeters). The sound quality is just superb. I had been enjoying the Zest XT with the touchscreen unit for over three months now and feel the need for a little extra thump.

So finally decided to go for a proper 12 inch sub and amp combo

Now the Dilemma starts.
1. Should i go for a Box or a Tube for Boot installation?
2. Which is the best brand among JBL, Pioneer, Blau and Sony ?
3. Is the 2 channel 500 W Sony AMP the right amp for a 1800 W sub?
4. Is 1800 W needed when the normal 12 inchers used in small sedans are 1200- 1300 W?
5. Is the bass controllable through the HU equalizer? or should one play around with the amp for the same?
6. I may have to remove the box/tube for the occasional airport/ railway station runs so which sub/box is more compatible for that?
.
1. A Sealed box will offer tighter (but less quantity) of bass than a tube.
2. Look at brands like Focal, Morel as well. Of the brands you have mentioned JBL and Blaupunkt would be the ones I would consider (I have not heard a Blaupunkt sub for some years now).
3. a 2 channel Sony amp will drive your sub and is probably the cheapest option. Subwoofer centric "mono-block" amplifers are expensive (10K or more) and will eat up your entire budget. Another options are the Kenwood KAC 647 or 847 or Pioneer GM604 amps which will be about 2-3K more than Sony but will offer you 2 channels for the front speakers as well as a simple crossover for the subwoofer section.
4. You don't need 1000W to drive your subwoofer although the extra power does help. Remember the difference between 500W and 1000W is only 3db. You wont use either 500W or 1000W (your subwoofer's physical limits will be reached long before that). What you are buying with the extra power is more headroom.
5. The subwoofer usually is controlled by a fader. Some HU's have a fader for the subwoofer level. Some do not. Some 4 ch. amplifiers offer an option for an external fader to be added. If you are stuck without any fadin option you can still manage with judicious settings of the level, LPF and XO slope on the amplifier.
6. A "Speakon" connector will allow for that. see link below
http://www.bax-shop.nl/downloads/dow...ale_female.jpg
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Old 30th August 2015, 15:24   #3
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Default re: ICE Upgrade : Tata Zest

Thanks Navin

Will do the fitment on wednesday and will update the team with pics. Mostly will settle for the Blau Tube as i will need more bass due to concealed boot fitment.

The shop guy has offered that he would first do the wiring and then let me listen to the boxes and tubes in tandem post which i can make the final decision. The prices are as follows.

Focal was not available there and hence was not recommended by the shopkeeper.

1. Sony 2 channel + Sony 1800 W (local Box) : 8500
2. Sony 2 channel + JBL 1200 W Tube : 9500
3. Sony 2 channel + Blau Tube : 8500
4. Sony 2 channel + Sony Tube : 9500

Bye till wednesday..... meanwhile any new insights will be welcome.
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Old 31st August 2015, 15:39   #4
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Default re: ICE Upgrade : Tata Zest

Hi SAE

I'm planning for the base model Bolt. What head unit and speakers do you suggest ?

1. Double din but not particular about touch screen. In fact buttons are preferred because the car would be mostly in the hands of a driver.. also I'm comfortable with buttons rather than a touch screen.
2. I'm not an audiophile so reasonable sound quality is sufficient.
3. Should 4 speakers suffice or should I add 2 tweeters also ?
4. I just need connectivity to a phone by cable, bluetooth ( with streaming ) and a pen drive

needless to say am on a tight budget ( going for base model because of that )
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Old 31st August 2015, 16:50   #5
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Default re: ICE Upgrade : Tata Zest

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAE40 in veins View Post
Thanks Navin

Will do the fitment on wednesday and will update the team with pics. Mostly will settle for the Blau Tube as i will need more bass due to concealed boot fitment..
If the tube is a bass reflex box (look for a small hole about 2-4" in diameter) you can tune the bass a bit by loosely stuffing some old cotton socks in the hole.
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Old 2nd September 2015, 19:56   #6
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Default re: ICE Upgrade : Tata Zest

Quote:
Originally Posted by narayan View Post
Hi SAE
I'm planning for the base model Bolt. What head unit and speakers do you suggest ?
1. Double din but not particular about touch screen. In fact buttons are preferred because the car would be mostly in the hands of a driver.. also I'm comfortable with buttons rather than a touch screen.
A good single din Head Unit should also meet your needs in Kenwood/Pioneer/JVC. Each have their own distinct tune of sound and bass. Audition if you can before zeroing in on the HU.

Quote:
2. I'm not an audiophile so reasonable sound quality is sufficient.
JBL/Cerwin Vega/Rockford Fosgate speakers should meet your needs interms of price and quality with a good sound quality. These brands are most easily available everywhere.

Quote:
3. Should 4 speakers suffice or should I add 2 tweeters also ?

A 6.5" or 5.25" component speakers (includes both mid bass and tweeters) in the front doors and 6X9 3 way coaxials should create a good sound stage in your car.

Quote:
4. I just need connectivity to a phone by cable, bluetooth ( with streaming ) and a pen drive
Almost all medium range HUs today have AUx/USB, bluetooth and Ipod/iphone connectivity. Shouldn't be much of a hassle in getting a good HU

Quote:
needless to say am on a tight budget ( going for base model because of that )
All of this can be done within a economical budget of upto or less than 15K with a good installer(going too cheap also wont serve the purpose). Ensure you are getting the work done by a professional or good installer. Be there when the install is done to avoid any issues later.
Hope this helps.

Mod Note: Please avoid responding within a quoted post. It becomes difficult if one has to maintain a conversation through a chain of quoted posts

Last edited by ampere : 7th April 2016 at 07:47.
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Old 2nd September 2015, 20:04   #7
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Default re: ICE Upgrade : Tata Zest

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAE40 in veins View Post
Thanks Navin

Will do the fitment on wednesday and will update the team with pics. Mostly will settle for the Blau Tube as i will need more bass due to concealed boot fitment.

The shop guy has offered that he would first do the wiring and then let me listen to the boxes and tubes in tandem post which i can make the final decision. The prices are as follows.

Focal was not available there and hence was not recommended by the shopkeeper.

1. Sony 2 channel + Sony 1800 W (local Box) : 8500
2. Sony 2 channel + JBL 1200 W Tube : 9500
3. Sony 2 channel + Blau Tube : 8500
4. Sony 2 channel + Sony Tube : 9500

Bye till wednesday..... meanwhile any new insights will be welcome.

Navin has suggested you rightly in every sense.

My two cents, I would suggest you to go for Kenwood Amp with JBL or Blaupunkt, it would sound much better than a Sony any day. Kenwood bass notes are much smoother and tighter and worth the little extra money that you spend. You wouldnt upgrade car audio often, so when you are doing it once, go for something good even if you spend a little extra money.

A sealed box will meet your thirst for a good deep bass. Just ensure you have a good overall setup to go with.
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Old 7th September 2015, 14:31   #8
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Default re: ICE Upgrade : Tata Zest

Guys
need further inputs based on the below info I collected online. Sorry for the long list of queries...

1) Is it ok to puchase online ? PAYTM has some crazy discounts and provides free installation. If the stuff one is buying is branded, is there any issue going the online route ? I am anyway not a audiophile so a regular installation suffices for me. Also will the below items fit into the OE slots ?
2) I shortlisted the below Double din head units based on my above priorities. Prices for these are between 5-5.5k in PAYTM after a 30% discount

a) Kenwood DPX-U5130
b) Sony WX-GT88UI
c) Pioneer FH-X369UB
d) Blaupunkt NEW ORLEANS 220

Among the above, the Blaupunkt looks visually the best.
Which ones among the above would be recommended ?
I went through the features online. I could not find any unit mentioning about bluetooth based music streaming from an Android phone. Is this a standard feature because of which no one mentions it ?
3) For speakers : I wanted to avoid the semi circular ones because I don't want to fit any speakers in the rear parcel tray. Want to restrict to the door panels.

FRONT : which is better
a) Sony XS-N16202C 6 Inch 5-Way Car Speaker
b) Blaupunkt VC 652 6 Inch 2-Way
c) Pioneer TS-A1605C 6.2 Inch Component System Package

REAR :
Sony XS-GTF16382 6 Inch Full Range 3-Way Coaxial Car Speaker (260 Watt)
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Old 7th September 2015, 16:27   #9
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Default re: ICE Upgrade : Tata Zest

Quote:
Originally Posted by narayan View Post
... 1) Is it ok to puchase online ? PAYTM has some crazy discounts and provides free installation. If the stuff one is buying is branded, is there any issue going the online route ? I am anyway not a audiophile so a regular installation suffices for me. Also will the below items fit into the OE slots ? ...
The branded ones will fit - no issues. BUT ... one cannot be sure about warranty when buying online. Double check and make sure you have India warranty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by narayan View Post
... 2) I shortlisted the below Double din head units based on my above priorities. Prices for these are between 5-5.5k in PAYTM after a 30% discount ...
Change the order of preference:

1. Kenwood DPX-U5130
2. Pioneer FH-X369UB
3. Blaupunkt NEW ORLEANS 220
4. Sony WX-GT88UI

Quote:
Originally Posted by narayan View Post
... I went through the features online. I could not find any unit mentioning about bluetooth based music streaming from an Android phone. Is this a standard feature because of which no one mentions it ? ...
Check the User Manual - should be available on the company website.

Quote:
Originally Posted by narayan View Post
... 3) For speakers : I wanted to avoid the semi circular ones because I don't want to fit any speakers in the rear parcel tray. Want to restrict to the door panels. ...
You will miss the bass kick if you don't use 6x9 ovals on the parcel shelf (I think that's what you mean by "semi circular".

Look for 6.5" components from Infinity, JBL, Boston, Morel etc. for the front speakers. Much better than the 3 you have listed. Ignore the "n ways" part in the speaker description.
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Old 7th September 2015, 17:05   #10
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Default re: ICE Upgrade : Tata Zest

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Change the order of preference:

1. Kenwood DPX-U5130
2. Pioneer FH-X369UB
3. Blaupunkt NEW ORLEANS 220
4. Sony WX-GT88UI



You will miss the bass kick if you don't use 6x9 ovals on the parcel shelf (I think that's what you mean by "semi circular".

Look for 6.5" components from Infinity, JBL, Boston, Morel etc. for the front speakers. Much better than the 3 you have listed. Ignore the "n ways" part in the speaker description.
Thanks D.A. - useful feedback.
Yes I meant the ovals when i said semi circular But I really want to avoid cutting up the parcel shelf ( future rattles/hassles etc ). So want to stick to the OE speaker points. What is your best recommendation with this limitation in mind ?

Also do you think the prices I indicated above are very good ? Because if its similar to offline stores, I would prefer to go there.

Thanks again.
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Old 7th September 2015, 17:18   #11
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Default re: ICE Upgrade : Tata Zest

Quote:
Originally Posted by narayan View Post
... I really want to avoid cutting up the parcel shelf ( future rattles/hassles etc ). So want to stick to the OE speaker points. What is your best recommendation with this limitation in mind ? ...
You don't have to cut the parcel shelf. Installers use MDF spacers to raise it.

Door coaxials don't give the same quality of bass as 6x9.

Quote:
Originally Posted by narayan View Post
... Also do you think the prices I indicated above are very good ? ...
Though prices look good, please check with a few dealers. Sometimes they give better deals.
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Old 26th February 2016, 03:21   #12
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hi. it was really nice to know that you have installed SW in your zest.
i am buying a zest soon and want to add a sub as soon as i get this wonderful car.
you said that you have taken the speaker level line output to the amp you have. but i would love to take the preamp line levels to my amp.
so my question is do the HU in the zest has any pre amp level out option?
thanks in advance.
moderators please note. i am a blind computer user using a screen-reader. so consider my text formatting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAE40 in veins View Post
Dear Gurus

The zest is the only car in the sub 4 meter segment with the superlative Harman system and 8 speakers (4 speakers & 4 tweeters). The sound quality is just superb. I had been enjoying the Zest XT with the touchscreen unit for over three months now and feel the need for a little extra thump.

The first and obvious choice was the 8 inch underseat active sub and zeroed in on the 'National' 8 incher, the Blaupunkt XLF 200. After listening to the same fitted in my friend's Bolt, i decided not to fit the same coz the thump delta was very marginal and marginal to the extent that the same was not recognizable when certain tracks were played.

So finally decided to go for a proper 12 inch sub and amp combo after spending considerable time researching on 12 inch active Boxes(not available in my budget) as i was not comfortable with too much of wiring.

The local shop suggested a 1800 W Sony woofer with a 2 channel Sony amp (for reasons best known to him) for Rs 8500.

Now the Dilemma starts.

1. Should i go for a Box or a Tube for Boot installation?
2. Which is the best brand among JBL, Pioneer, Blau and Sony ?
3. Is the 2 channel 500 W Sony AMP the right amp for a 1800 W sub?
4. Is 1800 W needed when the normal 12 inchers used in small sedans are 1200- 1300 W?
5. Is the bass controllable through the HU equalizer ? or should one play around with the amp for the same?
6. I may have to remove the box/tube for the occasional airport/ railway station runs so which sub/box is more compatible for that?

And finally my budget is 10 - 12 K

Will request experts to advice.
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Old 8th March 2016, 02:48   #13
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What is the status of your zest ice upgrade?
Please let us know how did you wire your sub and amp to the harman system.
Waiting for your update.
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Old 6th April 2016, 14:14   #14
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Default Re: ICE Upgrade : Tata Zest

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Originally Posted by sumanbhokray View Post
What is the status of your zest ice upgrade?
Please let us know how did you wire your sub and amp to the harman system.
Waiting for your update.
Hi Suman. Sorry for the late reply. To answer your queries, the Zest HU does not support an aux out for the sub and hence the speaker level line will have to be drawn. I installed a Box type (Sony 1800 W) in the boot and it gives me subtle bass addition without distorting the music quality or shattering windows. If you need the serious thump to shake the neighborhood glasses, better go for a Bass Tube with at least a 700 W amp(mine is 500 W sony)

And yes my ICE upgrade is working just fine and is giving me good performance but then my requirements were very minimal. So go to a shop, fit the amp first and then try out multiple woofers and then select one amongst them. Pioneer i feel is overpriced compared to JBL for the quality levels of sound.
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Old 7th April 2016, 03:02   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAE40 in veins View Post
Hi Suman. Sorry for the late reply. To answer your queries, the Zest HU does not support an aux out for the sub and hence the speaker level line will have to be drawn. I installed a Box type (Sony 1800 W) in the boot and it gives me subtle bass addition without distorting the music quality or shattering windows. If you need the serious thump to shake the neighborhood glasses, better go for a Bass Tube with at least a 700 W amp(mine is 500 W sony)

And yes my ICE upgrade is working just fine and is giving me good performance but then my requirements were very minimal. So go to a shop, fit the amp first and then try out multiple woofers and then select one amongst them. Pioneer i feel is overpriced compared to JBL for the quality levels of sound.


Thanks for the reply. It is good to know that the project went out well. Where did you take the speaker level line from? Is It from the rear doors or the fronts? And how did you wire the amp's remote power on terminal?

Last edited by ampere : 7th April 2016 at 07:07.
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