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Old 15th December 2015, 19:15   #1
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Default Upgrade queries: Pioneer 80PRS & Acustika DSP1 (3 Way Active)

HI All,

I am thinking of a final audiophile level major permanent upgrade for atleast another couple of years so I am planning to go for Pioneer 80PRS with 3-way active with Acustika DSP1 and better rear 6*9 speakers and additional sub and another 4 channel amp.

I need your valuable inputs and suggestions to make a decision.

I am currently running the below setup in my Baleno
  • Pioneer 5790BT 7" Touchscreen
  • 4 channel Arc Audio KS Mini 125.4
  • Cerwin Vega Mono 500.1
  • Diamond D1 12" sub
  • Diamond D3 components
  • Arc Audio (6X9) 6939
Recently, Acustika DSP1 was added to a stock player setup with 2 4 channel amp of DSL and 2 way component speaker setup of DLS with stock player in Honda City. It gave fantastic results in terms of sound clarity and overall sound quality and staging. Yet to listen to it, hence considering DSP1 and quite affordable too compared to other expensive DSPs in market.

Questions:


1. Options for DSPs ?
2. Opinion about Acustika DSP1?(couldn't get any review on teambhp or youtube(not in english), probably the product is new?
3. 3-Way components options - looking for something VFM brands not super expensive.?
4. Is Two sub box in the boot better option or should I stick with the existing single 12' sub sealed box ? if dual sub - Sealed or Fiberglass ?
4. Very Important - Is it better to add DSP to existing setup and upgrade only the speakers and add additional 4CH amp or upgrade the Player as well to Pioneer 80PRS and 3 way active components ?
5. Do I need to upgrade the existing 4 channel amp if so what RMS should be good?
6. Any related information or things I need to consider for this upgrade?

Few specs of Acustika DSP1

- 31 band graphic equalizer(Interface pic below).
- 8 independent channels.
- flexibility upto 48db/oct
- each channel can have seperate cross over points. completely customisable cross over frequencies(every single decimal point too)
- 10 presets can be saved and accessed from the Remote control unit in the dash.

Pic of Acustika DSP1
Attached Thumbnails
Upgrade queries: Pioneer 80PRS & Acustika DSP1 (3 Way Active)-img20151211wa0003.jpg  

Upgrade queries: Pioneer 80PRS & Acustika DSP1 (3 Way Active)-img20151211wa0004.jpg  

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Old 16th December 2015, 12:27   #2
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Default Re: Upgrade queries: Pioneer 80PRS & Acustika DSP1 (3 Way Active)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunsh!nes View Post
I am currently running the below setup in my Baleno
  • Pioneer 5790BT 7" Touchscreen
  • 4 channel Arc Audio KS Mini 125.4
  • Cerwin Vega Mono 500.1
  • Diamond D1 12" sub
  • Diamond D3 components
  • Arc Audio (6X9) 6939
Recently, Acustika DSP1

1. Options for DSPs ?
2. Opinion about Acustika DSP1?(couldn't get any review on teambhp or youtube(not in english), probably the product is new?
3. 3-Way components options - looking for something VFM brands not super expensive.?
4. Is Two sub box in the boot better option or should I stick with the existing single 12' sub sealed box ? if dual sub - Sealed or Fiberglass ?
4. Very Important - Is it better to add DSP to existing setup and upgrade only the speakers and add additional 4CH amp or upgrade the Player as well to Pioneer 80PRS and 3 way active components ?
5. Do I need to upgrade the existing 4 channel amp if so what RMS should be good?
6. Any related information or things I need to consider for this upgrade?

Few specs of Acustika DSP1

- 31 band graphic equalizer(Interface pic below).
- 8 independent channels.
- flexibility upto 48db/oct
I have not heard of the Acustika so I cant help there.

Decent 3 way speakers are expensive. I would say brands like Focal (Access), CDT, DLS (Reference), JL (Evo C5) etc are your best bet but even these will be about $500-600 for a pair. I think the JL is about $700.

2 12" subs will produce the same bass with lower distortion than 1 12" sub (of the same design). That is because 2 subs have to move less to move the same quantity of air. A sealed box can be made of MDF or fiberglass. A speaker box needs to be stiff AND well damped. Fiberglass boxes may be stiff but they often ring as they are not well damped. I would use MDF unless you are willing to build a MDF-fiberglass combination box with a layer or 2 of fiberglass sandwiched between layers of MDF. You can use sealed or ported. Ported designs need a little more care when being designed.

If you are adding a DSP you will need to add an amplifier to drive the speakers. Few DSPs (like the uber expensive Brax or the discontinued JBL MS8) have built in amplifiers.

The P80 from Pioneer has a DSP built in. If you are getting that HU then you can forgo an external DSP. The P80 can EQ and TA a pair of 3 way components.

Don't worry so much about RMS power as you should worry about the SQ of the amplifier. At this level you are talking more SQ than SPL.

There are many more things to consider, like where will all this fit? how will you power it? etc. I would suggest you talk to 2 good installers so they can show you what will go and where and then take a call. Once they start installing there is no going back.
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Old 16th December 2015, 19:10   #3
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Default Re: Upgrade queries: Pioneer 80PRS & Acustika DSP1 (3 Way Active)

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
I have not heard of the Acustika so I cant help there.
Decent 3 way speakers are expensive. I would say brands like Focal (Access), CDT, DLS (Reference), JL (Evo C5) etc are your best bet but even these will be about $500-600 for a pair. I think the JL is about $700.
I am considering DLS reference 3 way for this setup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
2 12" subs will produce the same bass with lower distortion than 1 12" sub (of the same design). That is because 2 subs have to move less to move the same quantity of air. A sealed box can be made of MDF or fiberglass. A speaker box needs to be stiff AND well damped. Fiberglass boxes may be stiff but they often ring as they are not well damped. I would use MDF unless you are willing to build a MDF-fiberglass combination box with a layer or 2 of fiberglass sandwiched between layers of MDF. You can use sealed or ported. Ported designs need a little more care when being designed.
Thanks for this clarity in information. I can now decide whether I should really go for a second sub.
I have one more doubt, will adding a single 15" woofer with more power compensate in a sealed enclosure instead of adding another sub? Will 15" really make any difference at all ? which brands are available off the shelf ? I am not more inclined for ported enclosure as I want tight and punchy bass than a loud one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
If you are adding a DSP you will need to add an amplifier to drive the speakers. Few DSPs (like the uber expensive Brax or the discontinued JBL MS8) have built in amplifiers.
The P80 from Pioneer has a DSP built in. If you are getting that HU then you can forgo an external DSP. The P80 can EQ and TA a pair of 3 way components.
Oh good. I actually missed this point. thank you for reminding. I can postpone adding the DSP later if really needed after going active. I am planning for adding a 4CH amp to power the front stage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
Don't worry so much about RMS power as you should worry about the SQ of the amplifier. At this level you are talking more SQ than SPL.
Agreed. I am looking at having the best SQ possible than the Power though it would be an added advantage if everything goes as planned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
There are many more things to consider, like where will all this fit? how will you power it? etc. I would suggest you talk to 2 good installers so they can show you what will go and where and then take a call. Once they start installing there is no going back.
I already have a installer who can do all this. But I wanted to understand it much better before I invest so much money into building this. Additional information always helps from experts like you . Even I am thinking how much my battery will handle though it is due for a change now(almost 5+ years but running fine since car is used everyday.

My only concern is how will I position the mid(fiberglassing in door or A pillar) as Baleno has no space even for a bottle in the door. will figure it out.

Main question still remains - My only concern is importing a genuine 80PRS - any suggestions on those apart from Amazon.com? Any contacts or reliable websites? Possibility of saving some money ?
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Old 16th December 2015, 21:37   #4
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Default Re: Upgrade queries: Pioneer 80PRS & Acustika DSP1 (3 Way Active)

As far as I understand (limited knowledge) 80PRS is two way active front + sub capable. It has high, mid and sub pre outs. I'm not sure how that can be used to power 3 way components and sub without using DSP.

For 80PRS- Why don't you check with your installer? As you've already noticed in another thread of mine, a BHPian imported the unit recently. Link was provided by the installer after his verifications and import was done by him directly.
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Old 17th December 2015, 02:10   #5
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Default Re: Upgrade queries: Pioneer 80PRS & Acustika DSP1 (3 Way Active)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
As far as I understand (limited knowledge) 80PRS is two way active front + sub capable. It has high, mid and sub pre outs. I'm not sure how that can be used to power 3 way components and sub without using DSP.
80PRS has a 3 way active cross over network and one additional RCA behind(guess Aux) I think by adding another amp the front stage will be active for all channels. You can do active without DSP too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
For 80PRS- Why don't you check with your installer? As you've already noticed in another thread of mine, a BHPian imported the unit recently. Link was provided by the installer after his verifications and import was done by him directly.
Thread link or the link by the installer please?
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Old 17th December 2015, 09:51   #6
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Default Re: Upgrade queries: Pioneer 80PRS & Acustika DSP1 (3 Way Active)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunsh!nes View Post
80PRS has a 3 way active cross over network and one additional RCA behind(guess Aux) I think by adding another amp the front stage will be active for all channels. You can do active without DSP too.
I guess I did not make my point clear enough. So let me try again.

I totally agree that the 80 PRS can go active without a DSP. It has a 3 way active cross over network in that it supports a high channel, a mid channel and a sub channel. That said -

1. You have 3 channels. The sub channel is driven via the mono to the sub.
2. That leaves you with two channels - one for the highs and one for the mids. You can power all four channels using the existing 4 channel amplifier itself to go active. You do not require an additional amplifier or DSP to go to an active setup.

Now -

1. Your plan of purchasing a three way component set wont work in an active mode (as far as i know) since you would then require 4-way active head unit then - something like the P99RS which can support 3 way active for the front plus a sub.
2. Or you would require a DSP here.
3. Or lose the sub.
4. Running 4 way would require an additional 2 channels of amplification - and hence you would require the new amplifier too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunsh!nes View Post
Thread link or the link by the installer please?
BHP'ian nkrishnap imported an 80 PRS last month. You can PM him for more details.

Also, which Bangalore installer have you decided on?
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Old 17th December 2015, 10:58   #7
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Default Re: Upgrade queries: Pioneer 80PRS & Acustika DSP1 (3 Way Active)

OT : What are the minimum number of amplifiers required for an active setup.
I have a pair of dls reference speakers, how would they perform if I go active.
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Old 17th December 2015, 11:51   #8
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Default Re: Upgrade queries: Pioneer 80PRS & Acustika DSP1 (3 Way Active)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
I guess I did not make my point clear enough. So let me try again.

I totally agree that the 80 PRS can go active without a DSP. It has a 3 way active cross over network in that it supports a high channel, a mid channel and a sub channel. That said -

1. You have 3 channels. The sub channel is driven via the mono to the sub.
2. That leaves you with two channels - one for the highs and one for the mids. You can power all four channels using the existing 4 channel amplifier itself to go active. You do not require an additional amplifier or DSP to go to an active setup.

Now -

1. Your plan of purchasing a three way component set wont work in an active mode (as far as i know) since you would then require 4-way active head unit then - something like the P99RS which can support 3 way active for the front plus a sub.
2. Or you would require a DSP here.
3. Or lose the sub.
4. Running 4 way would require an additional 2 channels of amplification - and hence you would require the new amplifier too.
Thanks for the clarity in information. Now I am in a better position to decide. Now do I have to go for P99RS ? DSP is on my mind but not right now, want to build it a little slow after considering all options.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
BHP'ian nkrishnap imported an 80 PRS last month. You can PM him for more details.
Thanks. Let me check with him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Also, which Bangalore installer have you decided on?
All my setup is done at EVO.


Quote:
Originally Posted by soumen.blore View Post
OT : What are the minimum number of amplifiers required for an active setup.
I have a pair of dls reference speakers, how would they perform if I go active.
AFAIK, going active means you are dedicating seperate channel for individual mids/tweeters from the amp. This way you have better control over each channel in terms of crossover and gains and set them as per your preference. Hope this answers your question. Moreover the performance depends on matching of the amp and the speakers. Each amp sounds differently, dont go only by RMS & Power rating. Matching an right amp to the speakers are important.Expert knowledge is required when going active, so your installer has to be knowledgeable and give you the right advise. Do research yourself to equip yourself with the needed knowledge so that no one can take you for a ride.

Recently a completely active setup was done with DLS front & rear with 2 DLS 4CH amp & sub with a Acustika DSP on a stock player of Honda City. I heard it gave phenomenal results and the SQ and staging was brilliant. Ofcourse the DSP had a major role to play, but DLS were also awesome in handling what was thrown at them.
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Old 23rd December 2015, 16:48   #9
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Default Re: Upgrade queries: Pioneer 80PRS & Acustika DSP1 (3 Way Active)

Need Guidance:

1. Do I retain the 7" touchscreen and add a DSP and 3 way components for better sound quality?
2. My understanding says, If I upgrade to Pioneer 80PRS with active setup, that would be much better interms of sound quality as the HU is an Audiophile grade one, am I right in my understanding ?
3. What other options can I go for incase If I am NOT changing the HU to 80PRS?
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Old 26th December 2015, 14:49   #10
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Default Re: Upgrade queries: Pioneer 80PRS & Acustika DSP1 (3 Way Active)

Any one interested to upgrade to Pioneer 80PRS? I have ordered for one, if we order one or two more probably we call can save few thousands on the import for 2 or more units? Please reply
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Old 26th December 2015, 21:02   #11
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Default Re: Upgrade queries: Pioneer 80PRS & Acustika DSP1 (3 Way Active)

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Originally Posted by Sunsh!nes View Post
Any one interested to upgrade to Pioneer 80PRS? I have ordered for one, if we order one or two more probably we call can save few thousands on the import for 2 or more units? Please reply
Can we talk, I would like to also order an 80prs. Sent you a PM with my contact details.
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Old 26th December 2015, 22:52   #12
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Default Re: Upgrade queries: Pioneer 80PRS & Acustika DSP1 (3 Way Active)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunsh!nes View Post
Need Guidance:

1. Do I retain the 7" touchscreen and add a DSP and 3 way components for better sound quality?
2. My understanding says, If I upgrade to Pioneer 80PRS with active setup, that would be much better interms of sound quality as the HU is an Audiophile grade one, am I right in my understanding ?
3. What other options can I go for incase If I am NOT changing the HU to 80PRS?
Audio/ICE gurus... please answer the questions/suggestions if any?
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