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Old 28th October 2006, 13:15   #46
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Folks,
The devil in my head is knocking again. Now that I have added a Mono Amp and a Sub, do I need a crossover in the front?

My understanding is, the crossover gives a good bass by spliting the frequencies. Wont the round speakers with Pionner TW tweater that I have do the job since my Pioneer sub is pumping the bass?
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Old 28th October 2006, 14:53   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madbullram
Folks,
The devil in my head is knocking again. Now that I have added a Mono Amp and a Sub, do I need a crossover in the front?

My understanding is, the crossover gives a good bass by spliting the frequencies. Wont the round speakers with Pionner TW tweater that I have do the job since my Pioneer sub is pumping the bass?
Ram, that devil will keep knocking from now on He started knocking in my head 4 years ago when I bought my Palio. He still hasn't stopped. He started knocking with a renewed frenzy from 3 months back, since I started hanging out at TeamBHP.

About the crossover, if what you want is to control the bass frequency fed to the sub, you already have a low-pass filter in your amp. You can fiddle with that.

If you wanted to know whether you needed to buy a separate crossover unit for adding a tweeter to your Kenwoods in front, DONT! Absolute waste of money. Crossovers are best mated with the mid-bass drivers and tweeters that come with them as a component set. Or you will need to be like Navin. He makes his own crossovers. And somebody with ears like his would be able to match separate mid-bass drivers and tweeters and crossovers to make a proper sweet-sounding unit. A job best not done by mere mortals like us.

The TS20s up front do not really complement the bass that comes from the sub. They just confuse your ears about where the soundstage is. Especially as there is no matching bass in the front to move the bassy part of the sound to the front stage. And they (TS20s) are the harshest, tizziest, head-ache making sets of tweeters known to man. I'm exaggerating a bit, just to drive the point home. And the Kenwoods are full-range drivers, not mid-bass drivers. No use mating the two through a separate crossover.

For the kind of effect you're looking for, you need a proper set of components in the front. Just wait it out a little till you have some extra spendable money. Install comps in front and drive them from the HU for a while. I know its hard waiting: <<OT>> I've been planning on comps for my front since the last month. Dunno when I'm going to be able to get them done. The co-axes in front don't cut it for me no more. :-( And now I want 3-way comps and not 2-way comps. Sob, sob! The travails of an ICE hungry guy! <</OT>>

Last edited by hydrashok : 28th October 2006 at 14:56.
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Old 28th October 2006, 15:32   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hydrashok
Ram, that devil will keep knocking from now on He started knocking in my head 4 years ago when I bought my Palio. He still hasn't stopped. He started knocking with a renewed frenzy from 3 months back, since I started hanging out at TeamBHP.
U hit the nail...After Team-Bhp, even in my dreams I get to see JBL, Pio, Blau amps and Subs ...I guess the Devil is gonna stay for long till my Quest gets over (Sounds like David Gemmel novel!!!)


Quote:
Originally Posted by hydrashok
If you wanted to know whether you needed to buy a separate crossover unit for adding a tweeter to your Kenwoods in front, DONT! Absolute waste of money. Crossovers are best mated with the mid-bass drivers and tweeters that come with them as a component set. Or you will need to be like Navin. He makes his own crossovers. And somebody with ears like his would be able to match separate mid-bass drivers and tweeters and crossovers to make a proper sweet-sounding unit. A job best not done by mere mortals like us.
Not really Hydra, my thought was (pls forgive the stupidity, I am still learning), the Kenwoods will give the low and high and the Pioneer tweeters highlight the Highs. The Bass is coming from the Sub so was thinking why I need the Bass from the Crossovers...Did I explain my thought correctly this time?

Anyway, I am waiting for MB Quarts Crossover, sounds a good deal at 3K...waddya say.

Next is too Decide between Blaupunkt Bahamas MP46 and an Alpine MP3 deck..BLaupunkt has so many features and an IPod input that its making the Alpiner in me little uneasy to decide
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Old 28th October 2006, 20:36   #49
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If the blau has the features you like, go for it man. It's a good company and is well supported in India. I know for a fact that Blaupunkt service rocks in India. You like the features - what's to think so much?
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Old 28th October 2006, 21:30   #50
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I would second Blaupunkt too. Simply because I have had only good before, during & after sales experience with them. I use a Blau HU, and I'm really happy with it. (And except for my Sub, everything in my car is Blau -- for now). I had to replace a pair of speakers twice because of some kind of disturbance in the sound. They replaced the speakers just like that twice, just on my say-so that there was a 'prrr-prrr' like sound coming from them at times. The second time was about a year after I got the speakers installed.

And Ram, the Bahamas is iPod compatible, but will not take iPod input directly. You will have to spring for an iPod interface cable set (about Rs.5,000.00). Or you can use the regular aux-in. Don't buy the Blau branded aux-in cable. It costs a bomb. If you chat-up the service guys there well, they will make one for you if you supply them with a stereo jack to RCA jack cable. Just make sure you buy a good quality cable.

I'm not saying anything about Alpines because I simply haven't used them personally. I have heard quite a few Alpine HUs and have found them good. And I have consistently heard good things about Alpine HUs. With one exception: Speedzak here had a bad experience with a very high-end & exotic Alpine HU (you can check-out his thread).

My personal advice -- between Blau & Alpine, buy Blau. You simply cannot go wrong with a Blau HU.

Last edited by hydrashok : 28th October 2006 at 21:31.
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Old 28th October 2006, 21:58   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madbullram
Not really Hydra, my thought was (pls forgive the stupidity, I am still learning), the Kenwoods will give the low and high and the Pioneer tweeters highlight the Highs. The Bass is coming from the Sub so was thinking why I need the Bass from the Crossovers...Did I explain my thought correctly this time?

Anyway, I am waiting for MB Quarts Crossover, sounds a good deal at 3K...waddya say.
You really don't need to apologise, ram. There is a time when everybody starts learning stuff, when they don't know a whole lot. Asking for info about something you don't know about is not stupidity.

I think by 'crossovers' you really mean 'components' -- a set of mid-bass drivers, tweeters and a crossover to bring them together and make them sing.

You need good bass (and mid-bass, and treble) up front so that the music will sound like it is coming from front of you. Like there are invisible speakers in front of you. That's what we call a good soundstage. Components will get this done. Without this, the music will be coming at you from behind you, which is unnatural. Co-axials will not be able to do this as well, as the tweeters are firing at your legs, like the rest of the speakers. Full-range drivers are further limited. Components help you get the tweeters up and in front of you. This way the mid-bass driver (near your feet) and the tweeters give out sound that is matched perfectly by the crossover controlling them both, giving you the illusion that the sound is coming from one single source (proper installation is important here) in front of you. The bass from the rear (subwoofer) gives out non-directional sound. This bass combines with the mid-bass so the separation of sound in the front and rear is not apparent. Else again, the soundstage shifts to the back.

The MB Quarts will definitely sound good. But, that's a big BUT, you will have to amp them to get them to sing the way they're meant to. That's at least 3.5K to 4K, if we're taking about a Sony amp. But, mating them with a Sony amp will be something close to sacrilege, a match that is not meant to happen. And I don't think the Quarts will sound too good if run off a HU. A good amp with (more-or-less) matching output is definitely needed. If you do plan to spring for a good 2 Channel amp from JBL/Audison/Alpine/Blau (consider Blau last) soon, then ok (plan to blow another 7K). You are only paying 3K for the Quarts, and if they are in good condition, you are fine. The reason I'm not all go about them is that you will find it difficult to get them fixed if something goes wrong with them.
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Old 30th October 2006, 12:02   #52
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Thanks Hydra, that cleared all my doubts. I always liked the Quart speakers and couldnt help but grab the deal, usually they dont develop any snags but then second hand is second hand so pray my stars...but I am happy I am buying T-Bhpian so I can be sure its good...

So, this is the plan...buy either the Pioneer or Blau (most probably) and add the components to the front and Audiobauh coaxial for the rear and connect the Pio mono amp and sub to it.

Then wait for 2-3 months and then buy a JBL 4-channel AMP and connect the Component and Coax to it and be dont with it.

Now, again, just thinking and asking if we buy a two channel amp and connect the compo to it, them I power ONLY the coax from the HU. Now the HU has a rated RMS of 18 X 4, since only the rear is powered by the HU, just like AMP bridging, will the rear get 18X4, 72 rms?
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Old 30th October 2006, 12:35   #53
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No no ram,

Each speaker will get 18 watts. Thats that. HU is not bridgeable.
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Old 30th October 2006, 12:50   #54
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Thanks Sam = too greedy eh?

Sam, I was reading the specs, the Blau Pre-amp output as per the website is 3V where as Pio is 4V...what difference it makes to the Sub and Amp connection. Also, I check the Pioneer premier range and they were like 6V...
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Old 31st October 2006, 20:36   #55
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Any inputs on the Premier range and what diff 4V or 3V does to the amp?
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Old 1st November 2006, 10:48   #56
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In simple words Higher the preamp output volatge,better it is[though not always.]Higher voltage is supposed to give u 'cleaner' signal than lower voltage.


To get bit more techinal,with higher value u can reduce the gains on amp and subsequently any noise that u may expereice with higher gain settings.
I hope u got it..
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Old 2nd November 2006, 13:03   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madbullram
Thanks Sam = too greedy eh?

Sam, I was reading the specs, the Blau Pre-amp output as per the website is 3V where as Pio is 4V...what difference it makes to the Sub and Amp connection. Also, I check the Pioneer premier range and they were like 6V...
As long as you are using good cable and sensible layouts 2V is adequate. I have seen bad setups with 4V Hus and good setups with 2V Hus.

As far as bridging amps is concerned I know of only one case where one can bridge 4 amps into 1. read the PDF below. It usus 4 50W amps to make a 200W amp. The chip used costs about Rs. 150 in India.

Anyone for a DIY car amp? :-)

http://www.national.com/appinfo/audi...ation_Note.pdf

see page 12 of 16.
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