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Old 12th January 2007, 00:20   #16
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Originally Posted by esteem_lover View Post
in idle with ac & headlights on, the ideal position is being neutral, else the battery could get screwed up. i really dont know much about diesels. i had a 118 with nissan diesel engine & it had absolutely no battery hassles, basically because the diesels do not require the battery power when the engine is running, but the petrols always require battery power
In a petrol car when the engine has started .......even if we remove the battery terminal the engine would keep running as the alternater will be making the power require to run the engine....

the car battery is mainly for starting the engine only..major work is done by the alternater....we can see the scoter engine it does not have a battery but it keeps running................

Last edited by low_bass_makker : 12th January 2007 at 00:21.
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Old 12th January 2007, 00:31   #17
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are you sure LBM? i would never advocate you to do such a thing. the moment you disconnect the battery, the petrol engine will be off, but the diesel will run irrespective of the battery is there or not. The system is different in petrol engines. i dont think that technology has changed yet. the petrol engine needs the battery to provide the spark for combustion. the alternator can help the battery, but it can't provide the spark. please correct me if i am wrong.

the scooters & motorcycles never had a battery & even when they started having one, it is not for the combustion, but for the turn signals, horn, brake light etc.

Last edited by esteem_lover : 12th January 2007 at 00:35.
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Old 12th January 2007, 02:53   #18
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Sorry LBM, I do not agree. In most petrol motorcars, once the engine has started, even a half dead battery will do, or like you said, even a scooter battery.

But a 12V battery is needed to complete the circuit nonetheless.

However the electrical circuit on a motorcycle is constructed differently and does not use the battery for the electrical ignition system.

Last edited by Sam Kapasi : 12th January 2007 at 02:58.
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Old 12th January 2007, 08:10   #19
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Yeah LBM you cannot make do without a battery at any point of time. In my car battery one of the cells had died. there was no gravity in the cell. The car would sometimes start up but the engine had difficulty idling itself with 3 cells out of the 4.
I had to keep it at a higher rpm to prevent it from stalling. I confirmed with the service guys that this is supposed to happen.
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Old 12th January 2007, 09:39   #20
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Battery should have top charge even with headlights and AC on. I have driven 8 hours at night with Headlights(130/110W), AC and ICE system(mp3 player at medium volume).
Check the voltage at your battery terminals with Lights and AC on, if it falls below 12.5 there is trouble brewing with your alternator.
Similar setup in my santro (130/110), moderate ICE, A/C running

I have a fairly new battery (under a year old) and recently the charge showed up at 11.9 or something so I went back to Amaron. Guy says my alternator/ starter has issues. Advaith jokers never bother checking these things I guess because I did a service recently too !! Temporarily running a spare battery so that I dont damage the new amaron further.

Need to figure out the problem and fix it.

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Originally Posted by esteem_lover View Post
@tsk1979...it will charge, but there will be moments when you are stuck in the traffic with the headlights & AC on, there will be a discharge in petrol engines.
Seems to be my problem, the battery isnt getting charged even when Im driving and I do a afair bit of running (20 - 40kms daily).

Also currently for the headlights I just have an extra cutout. Is there a way for me to put in an alternator for the lights/horn? Reason Im asking is because recently both the headlights went kaput. First it was only the high beam. A day later everything shut down.

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Old 12th January 2007, 09:39   #21
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why do petrols always require battery. If you disconnect battery in a running petrol car will it stop? I don't think so.
It does not have anything to do with Petrol or diesel, it has everything to do with your alternator capacity.
Diesels have high capacity batteries because the engine is normally heavier and a CI engine so it requires higher power to crank during start up. Moreover startup often involves Glow Plugs which require quite an amount of current too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by s0uljah View Post
Similar setup in my santro (130/110), moderate ICE, A/C running

I have a fairly new battery (under a year old) and recently the charge showed up at 11.9 or something so I went back to Amaron. Guy says my alternator/ starter has issues. Advaith jokers never bother checking these things I guess because I did a service recently too !! Temporarily running a spare battery so that I dont damage the new amaron further.

Opinions ?
Ask them to check your alternator regulator or the rectifier plate.
Yes they never check battery voltage while car is running at services
I use my ICE system as a reliable battery gauge(may not work for all).
1. Put the car on on : ICE starts
2. Crank engine : If ICE is still running while engine cranking battery charge good.
Recently my panasonic battery.went bad. I got the clue from ICE system. Checked voltage from alternator : All good. Checked battery water, one cell black.

Last edited by tsk1979 : 12th January 2007 at 09:43.
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Old 12th January 2007, 10:39   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
I use my ICE system as a reliable battery gauge(may not work for all).
1. Put the car on on : ICE starts
2. Crank engine : If ICE is still running while engine cranking battery charge good..
regularly drawing more current than a battery is designed to deliver can damage a battery so if your ICE has 2 or more amps I would advise against this.
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Old 12th January 2007, 10:50   #23
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Originally Posted by esteem_lover View Post
are you sure LBM? i would never advocate you to do such a thing. the moment you disconnect the battery, the petrol engine will be off, but the diesel will run irrespective of the battery is there or not. The system is different in petrol engines. i dont think that technology has changed yet. the petrol engine needs the battery to provide the spark for combustion. the alternator can help the battery, but it can't provide the spark. please correct me if i am wrong.

the scooters & motorcycles never had a battery & even when they started having one, it is not for the combustion, but for the turn signals, horn, brake light etc.
I am 100% confident and I have tried this on number of car .......If the car electrical system is fine like the alternater the engine does not require battery to run it....the alternater will do the job by itself....I would again say the battery is required to start the engine only after that there is no use of battery the alternater does all the work but when some high current is demanded like for ICE the battery supply the extra current which is require and later the allternater will charge the battery to its required valve.....
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Old 12th January 2007, 10:56   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
regularly drawing more current than a battery is designed to deliver can damage a battery so if your ICE has 2 or more amps I would advise against this.
No amps, just the HU.
I check the alternator voltage every month or so with a multimeter.
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Old 12th January 2007, 10:58   #25
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Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi View Post
Sorry LBM, I do not agree. In most petrol motorcars, once the engine has started, even a half dead battery will do, or like you said, even a scooter battery.

But a 12V battery is needed to complete the circuit nonetheless.

However the electrical circuit on a motorcycle is constructed differently and does not use the battery for the electrical ignition system.
to start the car without a battery is imposible as the car elecrical require min of voltage to start car electricals....not the starter but the car electricals ....

when the engine is running the battery is a reserve not the supply of power to the car system....

the scoter engine has a magneto to run electrical system it is like a ac genrater which is converted to dc and also regulated to the desired voltage as when the engine RPM increases the voltage also increase so as to regulate it the regulater is required....
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Old 12th January 2007, 11:06   #26
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Alternators in cars produce AC voltage, which is converted to DC. And the regulator is a very important part of the alternator system.
As for battery, a car engine will keep running even if the battery terminals are disconnected, does not matter wether its petrol or diesel.
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Old 12th January 2007, 11:21   #27
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LBM, i would ask you to try this in your car if it is a petrol & see for yourself. like sam said the battery sort of completes the circle. without the battery, the engine will stall. what you say is very true for a diesel engine. i have seen both happen.
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Old 12th January 2007, 11:40   #28
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My 2 cents worth on this topic. I think both LBM and Sam are right in their own ways.

Any car with an ECU will not work without a battery. If you disconnect the battery when the engine is running then the engine will stall.

All Non-ECU vehicles aka carbeuratted vehicles will stay on when the battery is disconnected.
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Old 12th January 2007, 11:49   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by low_bass_makker View Post
In a petrol car when the engine has started .......even if we remove the battery terminal the engine would keep running as the alternater will be making the power require to run the engine....

the car battery is mainly for starting the engine only..major work is done by the alternater....we can see the scoter engine it does not have a battery but it keeps running................
is it? so If i push car and start ( like when people do when battery is down), you mean to say that once they get teh car started they can drive away?

thanks Vikram

but can anyone confirm abt the carbed cars

Last edited by jkdas : 12th January 2007 at 11:50.
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Old 12th January 2007, 11:51   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vikram_d View Post
My 2 cents worth on this topic. I think both LBM and Sam are right in their own ways.

Any car with an ECU will not work without a battery. If you disconnect the battery when the engine is running then the engine will stall.

All Non-ECU vehicles aka carbeuratted vehicles will stay on when the battery is disconnected.
The alternator is connected to the battery and then to the power is supplied to other electrical systems by the battery.When the alternator is not charging the battery enough(something wrong with the alternator) the battery compensates for this by supplying the current.but it cant keep supplying current without being charged for long.so it goes kaput.
A battery is required to complete the circuit without which the car will stall as the circuit is incomplete.This is applicable for mpfi as well as non mpfi cars
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