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Old 13th March 2007, 02:03   #1
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Lightbulb M800 - Mid-Budget ICE Upgrade (Re-Do)

History:
3 years ago, I bought a M800 (my first car). A few months after that, I was taken to a shop and we bought seat covers & such stuff. I was asked to install an ICE and trusting the guy, I did. What I got for about 11k then was a Sony CDX-3300 with (probably) fake Xplods pair mounted on a plate behind the rear seat and two god-knows-what-company in the stock locations in the dash, and two 1" tweeters on the dash on either side. Wasn't driving the car that much then so I didn't notice what a lame system it is till last year when I actually started driving it.

Things to keep in mind while reading all this:
  1. I'm a n00b. I read up on this stuff 2 days ago. Didn't even know the terminology before that. So I might not understand simple short-hand you might take for granted. Please talk to me in English. hehehe
  2. I want to keep my CDX-3300 HU if possible.
  3. I want a decent sounding system. With bill and warranty. The bill and warranty is a requirement for me. The only place I might compromise for this is the HU itself if I replace my current one with another.
  4. The prices below are rounded off and 'general' since me and the dealer agreed that we would finalise the cost when I actually bought something.
  5. While driving I listen to music really loud and usually play hard rock.
  6. I was hoping for a <20k expense but am willing to go up to 30-35k if need be. I'm hoping this set-up will last me at least 2-3 years.
Current Situation:
After a little reading up, I was able to impress upon the dealer that I don't want the Chinese or desi stuff and in discussion, he's recommend that I rip out whatever I have right now and put in this:
  1. Pioneer 6850 HU -- because it has built-in HPF/LPF. He said getting a good crossover and filters for CDX-3300 would end up costing nearly as much as the Pioneer HU would cost fresh. He's not giving me a warranty on this model of Pioneer HU though and I don't know how much to believe him on this bit. Rs. 8500/-
  2. JBL 4-channel amplifier -- two channels for rear speakers, two for the subwoofer. Planning to run the front speakers and tweeters directly from the HU. Rs. 8000/-
  3. JBL speakers -- a pair each for rear & front each. Now I've already made up my mind to ask him for a JBL component set for the front though I'm not sure how much better it will make the overall sound and might skip it if I need to cut costs. Rs. 10000/- combined.
  4. Sony subwoofer -- 1300 watt. Didn't get the specs since I was in a hurry by around that time. These apparently have high-senstivity though because the dealer said they have a good 'boom' even on low volume. Will probably replace this with a better 10" Pioneer or JBL (since I'm buying everything else JBL for lack of a better reason). Rs. 4000/-
  5. Pioneer tweeters -- 1" variety. Again, didn't get the specs since I was in a hurry. He wanted me to drop them saying the other speakers have tweeters but I want them installed on top of the dashboard for a more direct higher-frequencies in-your-face sound. Rs. 1000/-
  6. BOSS wiring -- I haven't asked him what else is available instead of BOSS but from what I can read here, it seems to do the job and nothing else that's available seems to be too much different in terms of quality for the extra price it might have. Rs. 800/-
Questions/Help & Advice Solicitation:
  1. How does the above configuration sound? Am I doing something stupid or leaving out something very obvious? Is something I'm buying have a better alternative that's available in India with bill/warranty for not much of a price difference?
  2. Is it really going to be expensive to keep my current Sony HU and go in for separate filters for speakers and SW than to throw it away and buy a new Pioneer HU?
  3. Do the inbuilt filters in Pioneer 6850 HU hold any water? Should one go for HUs with built-in filters or ones without and install separate filters?
  4. What's the HU unit like anyway? Should I buy it at all? Is there a better option?
  5. Is this an overkill for my poor little lady (M800)? I don't want to break any glass or blow off my roof or anything! hehehe
Thanks in advance for all help/pointers/guidance/etc. And please, don't mince words... lay it out as you see it.
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Old 13th March 2007, 08:20   #2
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Welcome to team-bhp woodenknight. Your on the right track although I'd recommend a few different stuff compared to the stuff you have.

I would suggest you have a look here firstly:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/ask-gu...k-25k-30k.html

I'll try answering your questions as well.

I'll try an keep the budget within 20-30K. My answers are in bold below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodenKnight View Post
  1. Pioneer 6850 HU -- because it has built-in HPF/LPF. He said getting a good crossover and filters for CDX-3300 would end up costing nearly as much as the Pioneer HU would cost fresh. He's not giving me a warranty on this model of Pioneer HU though and I don't know how much to believe him on this bit. Rs. 8500/-. The CDX-3300 has only one preout either for sub or for speakers so a better idea would be to upgrade. The pioneer 6850 is a good HU. The newer 6950 has just been released and you may be able to get that for around Rs.8K.
  2. JBL 4-channel amplifier -- two channels for rear speakers, two for the subwoofer. Planning to run the front speakers and tweeters directly from the HU. Rs. 8000/-. This is good idea considering your budget. You ab also try the pioneer 6100 4 channel amp. It has more power and will be able to drive the subs a little better.
  3. JBL speakers -- a pair each for rear & front each. Now I've already made up my mind to ask him for a JBL component set for the front though I'm not sure how much better it will make the overall sound and might skip it if I need to cut costs. Rs. 10000/- combined. This is tricky for the M800. You can put components in the door but the M800's door is very tinny and as a result the speakers may jut out of the door a little. Also the sound wont be too great. For the M800 I would opt for the JBL-427, 4" 2 way coaxials in the stock location. Rear speakers go for either 6" coaxials or 6X9 oval coaxials. Pioneer aren't too great. You can check out the JBL GTO-637 6" or the GTO-937. you need to keep these in a box as your sub will be in the boot.
  4. Sony subwoofer -- 1300 watt. Didn't get the specs since I was in a hurry by around that time. These apparently have high-senstivity though because the dealer said they have a good 'boom' even on low volume. Will probably replace this with a better 10" Pioneer or JBL (since I'm buying everything else JBL for lack of a better reason). Rs. 4000/-. The pioneer 306 subwoofer or the JBL-GT4-12 is a better bet compared to the Sony.
  5. Pioneer tweeters -- 1" variety. Again, didn't get the specs since I was in a hurry. He wanted me to drop them saying the other speakers have tweeters but I want them installed on top of the dashboard for a more direct higher-frequencies in-your-face sound. Rs. 1000/-. You dont need these for sure. Better to avoid.
  6. BOSS wiring -- I haven't asked him what else is available instead of BOSS but from what I can read here, it seems to do the job and nothing else that's available seems to be too much different in terms of quality for the extra price it might have. Rs. 800/-. Do not go for BOSS. If you search around here you will find out why. JBL has a wiring kit or you can try AUZZO as well.
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Old 13th March 2007, 09:36   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodenKnight View Post
History:...Wasn't driving the car that much then so I didn't notice what a lame system it is till last year when I actually started driving it....[*]I'm a n00b.
Pioneer 6850 HU
JBL 4-channel amplifier
JBL speakers
Sony subwoofer
Pioneer tweeters
BOSS wiring
Lets say your budget is 32-35K (totalling all you listed).

I would first spend 4K on damping the doors and consider getting a 5" component upfront. the woofer can goin the door with a spacer and the tweeter can going the stock location. a ^' component might not fit even witha regualr spacer. With a double spacer the 6" component will fit but it might protude too much into the cabin and look ugly.

HU: Pio 6950 for 8K without Bill or Warranty or Blaupunkt with B&W for 9K
Amp: Pio 6100 for 7K without B&W or JBL 60.4 for 9-10K with B&W.
Speakers: Front 5" components: 6K, Rear 6" coax 4K. do consider listening to other brands as well as JBL. Also JBL makes a CS series of speakers that can save you some money over the GTO series.
Sub: Pio 306C in sealed box 4K or JBL GT4-12 in sealed box 5.5K
Wiring: Audion makes interconnects for 1K each you will need 2 pairs - 2K
Power cable: Finolex/Polycab 4 SWG will more than suffice for the single amp you can get that for less than 2K or spend 3K on the original JBL wiring kit.

There are a lot of fakes floating in this market, JBL speakers, wiring kits, Pio Head units, Alpine amps, etc...you name it there is a fake. So please find a reliable dealer and get Bills and Manufacturers Warranty for all you can (Pio equipment can also be got with B&W but the prices are significantly higher).

Lastly if you are buying all this equipment from your installer they shoudl offer you a free install. I wold ask for free wires as well and if they say yes then ask for which brand. Most likely they will not mention Audison, Monster (again there is a lot of fake Monster in the market), Twister but might mention BOSS. At that point tell them yo have heard a few horror stories about BOSS so will pay for a wire upgrade (say 1K for 2 pairs of Audison or 1.5K for Monster). Same with the power wires.

Let your installer make some moeny on the commisions of the equipment but dont be a bakra. The idea is to negotiate so that at the end you get a good job done (an installer who is not making a profit will not do a good job) and earn the respect of the installer (by not being a bakra).
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Old 13th March 2007, 11:17   #4
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I think vid6639 & Navin have covered nearly everything

The two main issues you'll have trouble with (in the M800) will be

(1) install depth of speakers in the door, and
(2) body-panel vibration.

The vibration can be fixed with some damping.

For the speakers, you'll definitely have to go for 5.25" comps/co-axials to minimise intrusion into the cabin. Installs with the speakers jutting out into the cabin a lot will run into some trouble or the other (from careless passengers) sooner or later.

I'd suggest that you take a look at the flatter type of speakers that don't need much depth for the install. Blaupunkt's OD series or TS series speakers have about the least install depth I've seen, in your price range.

For eg: the THx132 & the ODx132 (both 5" coaxials) have an install depth of just 43mm. The THx172 & the ODx172 (both 6.5" coaxials) have an install depth of just 46mm & 45mm respectively. If you add a really thin spacer, there will be no problem at all with the install.

The OD series is priced higher than the TS series. If you go for either of these, you will be able to fit even 6.5" speakers in front with about the same or even lesser protrusion into the cabin (space is really at a premium in an 800) as a regular 5.25" speaker. [Not that you really need 6.5" in front in a M800. 5.25" or 5" will really do fine.] But do listen to them before you buy them. Unless you like the way they sound, no sense in getting them just for the convenience.

There maybe other brands also with thin speakers (Pio does have such a range), but I don't think there are any available with B&W in India to beat the price range of the TS series.

Last edited by hydrashok : 13th March 2007 at 11:20.
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Old 13th March 2007, 14:09   #5
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Thanks for the advice though I am sorely missing that reassurance I would have got from Sam had he commented too.

1. Regarding HU
Thanks for alerting me vid6639. I'll probably go in for Pioneer 6950 now. I just hope the inbuilt filters are worthy because that's the only reason I'm upgrading the HU. Comments?

2. Regarding Amp
I'm favouring JBL 60.4 (esp. since both vid6639 and navin think it's a good idea) though I will compare it with Pioneer 6100 before I say "This is it" finally on installation.

3. Speakers
I was mistaken on this - both price and number of speakers. The guy has only suggested JBL GTO-937 coaxial for rear and says I don't need a pair up front because the rear will drive it well enough. The problem is that M800 has only a 4" install space in the dashboard (toward the outer ends, pointing angled-down toward the bottom of the front seats) so components or any other bigger quality speakers won't probably fit anyway. I don't want to hack the doors and install speakers there (I'm not there yet in my drive to customise/upgrade my M800). What he did suggest was that I give the rear coaxials a listen and add a decent tweeter pair up front if I really feel the need for it. Now that's what he says and I'm not sure I agree with this for I do know that only having rear speakers will give me sort of directional sound from back with a perceptible in a something-is-wrong-but-i-don't-know-what distortion of sound within the cabin but I could be wrong of course, being a a noob and all. hehehe. So I'm confused here right now. Maybe the JBL GTO-427 as suggested by vid6639 will make sense... I'll listen and decide.

3.1 Damping
I hadn't thought of this till navin mentioned it. But given that I won't have any speakers installed in the doors, this is something that I perhaps would add later into the mix. Or does adding the damping to doors really help improve the sound? Even for a shell-car like M800? I'm guessing more so given the tendency for the sheets to vibrate in loud noise and low frequencies generated by the SW.

4. Subwoofer
I'm leaning toward JBL GT4-12 as suggested by both vid6639 and navin though like the amp, I'll try out the Pioneer 306 too before committing.

5. Tweeters
Dropping them as advised. If things go crazy, I'll probably add a JBL set just to make it a complete JBL audio thingy.

6. Wiring
My dealer had initially mentioned BOSS but once I told him I wasn't very keen on BOSS, he suggested I buy GLIDER wiring for 1.6k instead which according to him uses original MONSTER components. When I mentioned AUZZO and AUDISON (though I think I pronounced it AUDION at the time), he retorted back that they were cheap chinese stuff that he gives them to those who want to save money and don't care about quality. JBL is also available and it's for 1.4k. I think I'll stick with JBL though uninformed reflexes make me want to go for GLIDER -- the only reason I'm stopping is because I'm trusting JBL and haven't heard of GLIDER anywhere -- even here on team-bhp which is India-centric.

7. Additional Stuff
RCA lead (400), Woofer Box (800), Speaker boxes (300), Woofer grill & socket (100).

So the total set-up is costing me exactly 29k as of now without the 4" speakers.
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Old 13th March 2007, 15:28   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodenKnight View Post
2. Regarding Amp
I'm favouring JBL 60.4 (esp. since both vid6639 and navin think it's a good idea) though I will compare it with Pioneer 6100 before I say "This is it" finally on installation.

3. Speakers
I was mistaken on this - both price and number of speakers. The guy has only suggested JBL GTO-937 coaxial for rear and says I don't need a pair up front because the rear will drive it well enough.

3.1 Damping
I hadn't thought of this till navin mentioned it....Even for a shell-car like M800?

6. Wiring
My dealer had initially mentioned BOSS but once I told him I wasn't very keen on BOSS, he suggested I buy GLIDER wiring for 1.6k instead which according to him uses original MONSTER components.

7. Additional Stuff
RCA lead (400), Woofer Box (800), Speaker boxes (300), Woofer grill & socket (100)..
a) I do not favour one compoenent over another. It is just that the Pio and JBL mentioned are the 2 most affordable 4ch. amps that offer decent sound.

b) Just a thought, since you are including a sub why use 6x9 (937s) why not 6" coax. The sub is managing the bass anyways. You will find that you will like to have some speakers upfront if you want the music to image right. In fact you will find that you will like to have the biggest speakers you can afford (money and space) in the front to move the image of the music in front of you rather than behind you. JBL makes CS series speakers that are more affordable than their GTO series so that is an option you can consider.

c) sheel cars need more damping than big heavy cars like Octavias and Audis.

d) PM Gunbir for Audison. Gunbir is a member here and represents Audison, ID, Hertz etc..

e) Rs. 400 for RCA lead is not enoygh. You should budget Rs. 1000 per pair of RCAs.
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Old 23rd March 2007, 01:20   #7
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One of my older speakers died so I had to go in for an emergency upgrade and I simply went and had this installed:
  1. JBL CS60.4 amp
  2. JBL wiring kit
  3. JBL GT4-12 subwoofer in a strangely large and odd-shaped wooden box that's just placed on the spare in what's supposed to be boot space
  4. JBL GTO-937 6"x9" (only being fed mid-high ranges from the amp) in fixed boxes on the sides in the boot space
  5. Glider Y-leads - at least they looked like gold plated
  6. Some desi wiring for all the remaining stuff... *sigh*
I'm unhappy with the installation -- used tape to bind wires together! Plan on getting this re-done properly one of the days when I have time to go there and get it done properly.

Of everything, I suppose #4 was a bad buy since like navin said, I should probably have gone for coaxials instead but I got confused about that. I got told by 4-5 people that I should not put coaxial speakers on an amp and I wanted rear speakers on amp and GTO-937 was a safe bet. I've driven about 600-650 km since then in about 3-4 days so you can understand my emergency. ;-)

BTW, I didn't get any damping done and the car decidedly vibrates (like the rear view shaking to every thump) but it does not create any sound from the vibration. I'm not sure if I should get damping done. The guy said damping is going to cost like 500 bucks to maybe 1k so I'm not even sure he knows what I'm talking about since I'm under the impression it's supposed to cost around 3-4k.

Now the questions:
  1. Can coaxials go on amps?
  2. The sound is decidedly imaged from back, on my left in alignment with the subwoofer and does not 'surround' me. I would want it either 'around' me or from 'front' of me. No idea how to go about it. Totally clueless. I've been suggested that I add a box behind the console next to driver left foot and add 6" speakers with a 2-channel amp. I'm not sure that's a great idea for I want the sound to come from 'front' not 'front-below-me'. The dashboard has space for 4" and that would be ideal for GTO-437 with a pair of GTO17t mounted on the beams on either side of the windshield that I could run straight from the HU but again, I've been told that on high-volumes (typical environment for my driving), the amped rear will drown out the fronts -- even the 6" -- running straight from HU. An option is that I get a mono amp to run the subwoofer and use the freed 2 channels from the CS60.4 to run the GTO-437 and GTO17t pairs ... *sigh*... I'm confused. What do you guys suggest?
  3. Should I go for damping when I apparently don't need it?
Looking forward to the inputs.
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Old 23rd March 2007, 02:31   #8
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phew! whataaa post!

never hurry berry if you want a nice ICE setup and seems you even went to a bad installer who 'cut' wires for $%^&*(

1) should have gone for compos for frnt
2) a sub in a box
3) one 4 channel amp
4) 2 pair of RCA
5) could have used speakers wires that came with the speakers
6) some nice power cable/wires

if you had done this way, you would have been happy for sure and rear could have been added later.
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Old 23rd March 2007, 03:01   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkdas View Post
never hurry berry if you want a nice ICE setup and seems you even went to a bad installer who 'cut' wires for $%^&*(
Chandigarh isn't a great city when it comes to ICE installations and those with money usually go to Delhi to get it set up. What the local dealers get is desi crowd who are mainly totally clueless and want to get things done fast. I had to repeatedly tell the guys working on my car to slow down. There are a few things I intend to go back and fight about but far as I know, they didn't cut wires anywhere from the wiring kit. Much of the system was plug-in or stuff-the-naked-wire-end-in-and-tighten-the-screw type. I'm not defending their installation but I did want to clarify that it's not a shoddy job; it's just not to my expectations/perfect. For example, they didn't tie the wires, they taped them together (yuk!).

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkdas View Post
1) should have gone for compos for frnt
There are no 4" compos and M800 only allows 4" speakers in the dashboard. Anything other than that would need custom box. That's what I'm asking about now on how to do -- put in 'front' sound.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkdas View Post
2) a sub in a box
That's what I have. JBL GT4-12 is in a custom box in the rear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkdas View Post
3) one 4 channel amp
Got that too. JBL CS60.4 is a 4 channel amp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkdas View Post
4) 2 pair of RCA
This I don't know for sure. I think we used a single pair of RCA cables that come with the JBL wiring kit and then used Glider gold-plated Y-cables at the amp end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkdas View Post
5) could have used speakers wires that came with the speakers
This is where my inexperience shows. I did not know speakers came with wires. The guy was decent though and might have used them without me knowing it. I simply don't know what wires have been used and I know at least at one place where they used desi wires -- I think it was that remote wire that turns the amp on and off (not the power cable itself).

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkdas View Post
6) some nice power cable/wires
I used a JBL wiring kit. It is nice IMHO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkdas View Post
if you had done this way, you would have been happy for sure and rear could have been added later.
I always intended to get the whole system put in. However, I was advised that I should first get the rear done, listen to it, and then if I still need it, I should get the front put in too. I knew I would need front but waiting a few days to 'understand' what only a rear-based system feels like wasn't an issue for me. Now I'm confused about what to do to extend what I have in a sane manner. I clearly favour JBL over others and I'm trying to get noticed by Sam (He's been absent from this thread noticeably) so that he sends me a few freebies/advice!

Another thing to consider is that my JBL GT4-12 subwoofer is currently not being properly driven by the JBL CS60.4 which has an output of 60 watts RMS x 4 channel at 4 ohms which when crossed and fed to my subwoofer is about half of it's rated power handling of 250 Watts RMS though for a small car like M800, it's more than sufficient and is giving me a nice flutter in my innards on a reasonably high volume. So perhaps I should get a JBL GTO301.1 for the subwoofer and feed my fronts with the 2 channels from JBL CS60.4? My maths could be all wonky of course and the subwoofer could be an ideal match for the output from the amp too so correct me if I'm wrong here.
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Old 23rd March 2007, 08:14   #10
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@ Woodenknight, you've definitely taken some effort to explain the problem

As I see it, you have good equipment in there. So relax on that front. And except for the speaker wires, you seem to be ok with cabling too. Speaker wires can be fixed without much expense, so don't worry about that.

Y-connector: Your HU probably had only one pre-out and that must be why you needed a Y-connector. Otherwise the installer would definitely have made sure you got another set of RCAs (unless he was out of stock on them). Could you confirm the one pre-out thing? It is important, as if there is only one pre-out, you won't have the fader facility from the HU, and the front-rear balance will have to be set properly at the amp end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodenKnight View Post
Of everything, I suppose #4 was a bad buy since like navin said, I should probably have gone for coaxials instead but I got confused about that.
The 6x9s are coaxials. But you really didn't need 6x9s in the back as you have a sub there. A 6.5" or even a 5.25" coaxial would have been enough. But that said, the advantage you now have is that you will get decent bass even if you remove the sub to carry luggage for a long trip.

Now, to answer your questions:
1. Yes. Coaxials can go on amps. Absolutely nothing wrong with co-axials being fed by amps. In fact most of us have coaxials being fed by amps (at least in the back).

2. The sound is coming from the back with absolutely no front image as you have nothing installed in front. Even the 4" coaxes in the dash will make a big difference. Kicker has 4" comps but they are apparently hard to find. Go for the GTO 4" coaxes and power them from the amp. Power the sub from the other two channels (and not the 6x9s). Right now, all the sound coming from the back is amped, so there is no way you'll get any front image. Run the 6x9s off the HU.

Find out at what frequency the output to the sub is crossed over at. Anything higher than 80Hz will cause the bass to be pulled back. I personally prefer the sub to be crossed over at 63Hz. This will make the sound non-directional (and more enveloping). Try it out and see if it rings your bell.

What kind of box is the sub in? Sealed or ported? A 60.4 amp will not be able to drive the GT4-12 in a sealed box well enough. A ported box will be fine with the 60.4. Can you post a pic of the box?

Yes. You should go for coaxials in front. But you don't need additional tweeters. (The GTO17t are not needed in addition to the co-axials).

3. It is a good thing is that your car isn't rattling (at least for now). If no rattles can be heard, you're fine. The RVM will vibrate like mad with a good sub. With a good 12" sub in an 800, the RVM should be vibrating like mad. Maybe later when rattles start showing you can do the damping thing.

Mono amp: Don't buy a mono now. Get front coaxials and see how the sound improves. Check the sub-box and the crossover/filter setting for the sub in the amp. I think if you fix these, the sound should improve.

Another looooong post. I hope you read all of it (I couldn't read it again myself ).

Last edited by hydrashok : 23rd March 2007 at 08:18.
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Old 23rd March 2007, 10:01   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hydrashok;396825
Find out at what frequency the output to the sub is crossed over at. Anything higher than 80Hz will cause the bass to be pulled back. I personally prefer the sub to be crossed over at 63Hz.

[B
3.[/b] It is a good thing is that your car isn't rattling (at least for now).
a) An XO freg of 63Hz means that the front should be capable of pulling hte bass upfront. I dont think a 4" can do that. You'd need 6" speakers up front to do that. Given that you only have 4" up front you would need to dial your sub a little higher (say 80 or 100Hz).

b) Damping rattles are not the only use for Sound damping material. Keeping road nosie out is another. Besides some rattles cant be clearly heard (but their absense is noticed). For example when the inside panle of the front door resonates. This is why I would recommend damping material on the front doors (if youhave your speakers there) and under the carpeting of the car.
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Old 23rd March 2007, 19:27   #12
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hey nice setup you got there Mr. Wood
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Old 27th March 2007, 23:33   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hydrashok View Post
Y-connector: Your HU probably had only one pre-out and that must be why you needed a Y-connector. Could you confirm the one pre-out thing? It is important, as if there is only one pre-out, you won't have the fader facility from the HU, and the front-rear balance will have to be set properly at the amp end.
I don't know enough technical details to know this but I found the installation instructions booklet and here's a grab from there. Looks like a single pre-out -- the cable I'm using is plugged into both on the HU end.



Before I got this equipment plugged in, I could use the HU to dictate the front-rear balance. I have no idea what this means in the current context but I hope it helps.

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Originally Posted by hydrashok View Post
The 6x9s are coaxials. But you really didn't need 6x9s in the back as you have a sub there. A 6.5" or even a 5.25" coaxial would have been enough. But that said, the advantage you now have is that you will get decent bass even if you remove the sub to carry luggage for a long trip.
Good point. Hadn't thought of that. The only reason I didn't go in for a 6.5" coaxial was because the dealer I purchased and got the stuff installed from kept insisting that running them on the amp would destroy them. I was going on a trip the next day and didn't have time to check up here -- so I just swallowed it and got the 6x9s installed. Now it'll come handy in those family trips where the volume needs to be low and boot needs to contain luggage.

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Originally Posted by hydrashok View Post
Find out at what frequency the output to the sub is crossed over at. Anything higher than 80Hz will cause the bass to be pulled back.
When you say "what frequency the output to the sub is crossed over at" you are asking me the LPF frequency, right? It seems to be something around 80-100Hz -- I can't tell for sure because the guy who installed it had no clue when I asked him this question. I tried checking the amp and it has a dial and I'm approximating this value from there though it could be much higher than that as well. I'm not really sure how to find it out for sure.

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Originally Posted by hydrashok View Post
What kind of box is the sub in? A ported box will be fine with the 60.4. Can you post a pic of the box?
It's ported. Here's the pic:



It's too high for M800 and doesn't let me close the boot door close properly. It's just not nicely made. I'm hoping to get it changed from Delhi (see below).

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Originally Posted by hydrashok View Post
Yes. Coaxials can go on amps. Absolutely nothing wrong with co-axials being fed by amps. In fact most of us have coaxials being fed by amps (at least in the back).
Are there different type of coaxials? I mean, are there coaxials that can be amped and coaxials that cannot be amped? Like I mentioned above, the dealer insisted on not installing a particular model (I'm forgetting which) saying it was not amp-ready. I know I'm repeating myself and I think I already know the answer too but at the moment I'm educating myself and there is no such thing as a stupid question. :-P

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Originally Posted by hydrashok View Post
Even the 4" coaxes in the dash will make a big difference. Go for the GTO 4" coaxes and power them from the amp. Power the sub from the other two channels (and not the 6x9s). Run the 6x9s off the HU.
I have decided not to purchase any more equipment from the guy I bought it from mainly because he has a lousy installer. I'll probably come to Delhi to get the audio equipment properly re-installed.

I wasn't able to find anybody who was even aware of what 'damping' means other than this guy and he recommended using wool carpeting (no wonder it was only costing 1k).

Recommendations on who I should go to who can do the whole deal -- damping and re-installation of the audio equipment + add/configure front sound?

@Navin: Thanks for the clarifications and additional input.

@low_Bass_makker: Thanks!

Here's two more pics to look at how the set up looks:



Nothing great for most of you guys but I'm excited about it nevertheless.
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Old 28th March 2007, 09:35   #14
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I
You cant call that ported son. A port would be a tube (circurlar or rectangular in crosssection). I dont see a tube just a vent. You are very correct in changing your installer.

On Saturday I had the opportunity to witness how bad these "pappus" (that is what the owner of the car caled his installer) can get. Untill then I lived in bliss that all installers were like mine. Believe me I cired then did not sleep all night and we are now taking the poor car to a good installer today.

Bad installers should be shot, Elf has a 12 bore and is willing to do the needful. :-)
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Old 28th March 2007, 10:48   #15
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Navin Ji is right....the enclosure is made incorrect....there should be a port at the side ....but it can be a pipe or a square shape also...here is a pic of such enclosure.....taken from kicker....
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