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Old 27th May 2007, 20:17   #106
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the 944 can give 250 x 2 at 4 ohms 14.4 volts and it will be 250 x 2 at 2 ohms as the power supply limit is achieved...in theory the amp can give 75 x 4 at 4 ohms so it can give 150 x 4 at 2 ohms but it gives 125 x 4 at 2 ohms or 250 x 2 at 4 ohms. here we can see that the amp power supply section is limiting the power output.

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Old 27th May 2007, 21:10   #107
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Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble View Post
P.S. With reference to your diagram, I have not come across a DVC sub which has both '+' terminals on one side, and both '-' on the other. I know this is representation, but couldn't resist.
that was just to clarify what i was saying. was in a hurry, had to go somewhere otherwise i would have drawn it the proper way.

cheers

clip

lbm paaji,

thanks for the spec and explaining. i should have bought a dvc sub so that when i upgrade to a mono bloc i could extract the best out of it. btw, is there any sub with svc of 2 ohm comparable to the 15" es380 hertz available in india?

cheers
clip

Last edited by clipto333 : 27th May 2007 at 21:17.
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Old 27th May 2007, 21:45   #108
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lbm paaji,

thanks for the spec and explaining. i should have bought a dvc sub so that when i upgrade to a mono bloc i could extract the best out of it. btw, is there any sub with svc of 2 ohm comparable to the 15" es380 hertz available in india?

cheers
clip

ya there are many but they are 4 ohm dvc which when wired parllel comes to 2 ohm final....so what are you planning to do...add one more sub...
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Old 27th May 2007, 22:38   #109
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ya there are many but they are 4 ohm dvc which when wired parllel comes to 2 ohm final....so what are you planning to do...add one more sub...
if i add 1 more sub to the present setup there wont be any use cause i only have 1 amp at this time. and i am satisfied with my setup. 1 sub is enough for me. what im planning to do is to buy a 2 channel amp like the audison srx2s so that my sub gets the power it needs. mono bloc will be of no use because i wont be extracting much out of it cause i have a 4ohm sub. any suggestions for an amp that can put around 400-500w rms? i dont wanna spend alot so audison is out of my budget. my budget is around 15k. i wanna see what i can get for 15k max.

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Old 27th May 2007, 23:30   #110
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The Pio 7300M and 5300T are available for less than 15K.

1. are you are looking for a sub that is SVC and 2 ohms or DVC adn 4ohms per coil?

I dont know a SVC 2 ohm woofer but there are dozens of 15" DVC 4 ohms per coil subs.

2. You are looking for an amp that can put out 400W+ in 4 ohms and costs uner 15K.

sony used to make a class D amp that put of 550W at 4ohms. I dont remember the exact model number but I think it was the D9000 or something like that. The JBL 601.1 costs more than 15K. Another option if you can find it is the Kenwood amps they have a mono amp that is rated to deliver 500W at 4ohms (model 9xxx again) they also had stereo amps that iere 125-150x2 at 4 ohms that was rated at 500-600x1 at 4 ohms (PS series they were called) but this was some years back. 2005? Another budget option might be Audiobahn (ask Bass and Trouble) for the A8000 pr 4002 or something on those lines.
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Old 27th May 2007, 23:42   #111
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If you can get the MRD-1005 mono amp it is avalable for grey in 20k+ range it will give you 700 x 1 at 4 ohms 14.4 volts....and 500 x 1 at 4 ohms 12 volts so the amp will be a perfect choice for your application also there is pioneer mono block series 3000 spl it is also having approx the same specs....
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Old 28th May 2007, 01:37   #112
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Originally Posted by navin View Post
The Pio 7300M and 5300T are available for less than 15K.

1. are you are looking for a sub that is SVC and 2 ohms or DVC and 4ohms per coil?

I dont know a SVC 2 ohm woofer but there are dozens of 15" DVC 4 ohms per coil subs.

2. You are looking for an amp that can put out 400W+ in 4 ohms and costs uner 15K.

sony used to make a class D amp that put of 550W at 4ohms. I dont remember the exact model number but I think it was the D9000 or something like that. The JBL 601.1 costs more than 15K. Another option if you can find it is the Kenwood amps they have a mono amp that is rated to deliver 500W at 4ohms (model 9xxx again) they also had stereo amps that iere 125-150x2 at 4 ohms that was rated at 500-600x1 at 4 ohms (PS series they were called) but this was some years back. 2005? Another budget option might be Audiobahn (ask Bass and Trouble) for the A8000 pr 4002 or something on those lines.
hi navinji,

ill see the specs of the pio amp you mentioned. maybe it suits my requirements. navinji im not going to buy another sub. all i want to do is to buy an amp that can power my hertz sub. right now, the sub is only getting 250w at 14.4v. my car gives around 13.4v when the engine is running so my amp will be putting out around 200+ watts which is barely adequate for a sub whose nominal input is 45w.

yes navinji, im looking for an amp which gives out around 500w rms with decent sq.

b&t also deals in dub amps. dont know how they sound and if they are decent enough. lets see what ajay bhai(b&t) says. if the sq is comparable or better than pio 944, i wouldnt mind buying them. i trust ajay bhai's advice.

what do you have to say about dub navinji? have you ever had a listen? actually they are excellently priced. the dub4001 pumps out 400w rms into 1 channel. its priced at 7k. the DUB8001 pumps out 800w rms into 1 channel and is priced at 15k. but i dont know if the above specs are for 4ohms or 2ohms. B&T, need your help here.

the audiobahn a8000t you mentioned pumps out 800w rms x 1 and priced at 20k but dont know if its for 2 or 4ohms.

how much is the kenwood for you mentioned above? that suits me well.

navinji, honestly speaking, the up gradation is never gonna stop so i prefer a 2 ch amp than a mono bloc because of the flexibility it offers.

navinji, is there really a need to buy an expensive amp like the audison srx2s(well its expensive for me) :-) for bass duties? i mean will it make a big difference in terms of sq if i buy a similar wattage amp that is cheaper for e.g. the DUB amp?

navinji, can you explain the differences between a mono and a stereo amp?
and i hope im not asking too many questions


Quote:
Originally Posted by low_bass_makker View Post
If you can get the MRD-1005 mono amp it is avalable for grey in 20k+ range it will give you 700 x 1 at 4 ohms 14.4 volts....and 500 x 1 at 4 ohms 12 volts so the amp will be a perfect choice for your application also there is pioneer mono block series 3000 spl it is also having approx the same specs....
lbm sir,

i really like the alpine amp for the looks. dont know how they sound but im sure it would be better in terms of sq than a comparable pio amp. i would like to know how it compares with a pio or other comparable amp in terms of sq. also the power output will be more than 500 cause my car gives out around 13.5v when the engine is running. damn i need big red gandhis lol.

thanks
clip

edit - navinji, just checked the specs of the pio amps you mentioned above.

the 7300m is out cause it gives 250x1 at 4ohms at 14.4v which is the same as my pio944.

the 5300t amp is the minimum i require. it pumps out 380w x 1 at 4ohms at 14.4v. but it will give out less at 13.5v so the sub still remains under powered. :-)

rightnow, the kenwood and the dub are the amps that suits my requirement but only if the output is at 4ohms.

Last edited by clipto333 : 28th May 2007 at 01:50.
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Old 28th May 2007, 11:54   #113
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I have not heard DUB amps. I have heard the audiobahn though and they are quite adequate for bass durties. Not great but adequate. You are not going to compare audiobahn with Steg and Audison are you? The 8000t is 400W at 4 ohms and 800W at 2 ohms.

Since I am not a Pro or a Guru I dont know prices or model numbers. My knowledge is dated and might be inaccurate. I have no idea what the prices of these amps were. I mentioned them beucase they were the low end bass amps that I have heard or heard of. I did hear one PS series Kenwood amp once and it did a accepatable job.

A mono amp is usually designed to drive subs. Subs have specific needs and good monos are designed likewise. They are often designed to drive 4, 2 and even 1 ohm loads.

A stereo amp is a 2 ch. amp. You can bridge both channels and use it as a mono amp. Some stereo amps doNOT allow this but these are far and few between. Stereo amps are usually rated to 4/2 ohms and in brige mode 8/4 ohms. Few amps can be bridged and still drive a 2 ohm load safely.

A Mono amp is a MACK truck. A 4-2 channel amp is a 911. when you are carrying a heavy load the MACK truck will do a better job. Another analogy is a high torque deisel engine (mono block) vs a high rpm refined ngine (2/4ch. amps).

Some good 5ch. amps are really small MACK trucks mated to a 911. The JBL 755.6 for example is really 2 very small MACKs mated to a 75.4. When the 2 very small MACKs are bridged they can do the job of a small MACK truck. I wont compare it's bass handling with a dedicated monoblock though.

Audisson are very good amps and well respected too. Steg (another italian brand) maybe even more esoteric. Many countries add their own signature to sound. England, Germany, Frnace, Italy, the US, Japan and now even China produce very good equipment each with their own signature. India still has a long way to go in this regard.

Last edited by navin : 28th May 2007 at 12:02.
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Old 28th May 2007, 19:53   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post


A Mono amp is a MACK truck. A 4-2 channel amp is a 911. when you are carrying a heavy load the MACK truck will do a better job. Another analogy is a high torque deisel engine (mono block) vs a high rpm refined ngine (2/4ch. amps).

Some good 5ch. amps are really small MACK trucks mated to a 911. The JBL 755.6 for example is really 2 very small MACKs mated to a 75.4. When the 2 very small MACKs are bridged they can do the job of a small MACK truck. I wont compare it's bass handling with a dedicated monoblock though.

Audisson are very good amps and well respected too. Steg (another italian brand) maybe even more esoteric. Many countries add their own signature to sound. England, Germany, Frnace, Italy, the US, Japan and now even China produce very good equipment each with their own signature. India still has a long way to go in this regard.

hi,

great example there navinji. :-) was wondering what would be the difference in a VFM amp like dub and a high end amp like audison when used for bass duties? im really confused what amp to buy. till now i was thinking of getting the Audison srx2s 2 ch amp. it gives 600x1 bridged. But it is quite expensive and will take time to collect enough cash.

any suggestions for the amp in 20 - 30k range?

cheer
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Old 28th May 2007, 20:52   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clipto333
ill see the specs of the pio amp you mentioned. maybe it suits my requirements. navinji im not going to buy another sub. all i want to do is to buy an amp that can power my hertz sub. right now, the sub is only getting 250w at 14.4v. my car gives around 13.4v when the engine is running so my amp will be putting out around 200+ watts which is barely adequate for a sub whose nominal input is 45w.
Clip, who has installed your system? I assume that it must have been entrusted to our deadly duo, Gunbir and JB. So I would not suspect anything to be wrong with respect to the install. But let me tell you, that even 200+ watts continuous power is quite a bit, and should ideally give the Hertz sub (or most subs) a good workout. With 4-500 watts, you'd be really banging it. So I hope it sounds the 200-250 watts that it should.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clipto333
b&t also deals in dub amps. dont know how they sound and if they are decent enough. lets see what ajay bhai(b&t) says. if the sq is comparable or better than pio 944, i wouldnt mind buying them. i trust ajay bhai's advice.
Please banish the DUB thoughts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clipto333
what do you have to say about dub navinji? have you ever had a listen? actually they are excellently priced. the dub4001 pumps out 400w rms into 1 channel. its priced at 7k. the DUB8001 pumps out 800w rms into 1 channel and is priced at 15k. but i dont know if the above specs are for 4ohms or 2ohms. B&T, need your help here.
Specs are at 4 ohms, ahem, quite exaggerated also. Works well for people who absolutely insist on a mono and want it at a price, with no regard for some absurd levels of SQ etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clipto333
the audiobahn a8000t you mentioned pumps out 800w rms x 1 and priced at 20k but dont know if its for 2 or 4ohms.
I'm afraid I dont carry this right now. And it isnt going to outrun the 944 by a mile when operating 4 ohms, 12V.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clipto333
navinji, honestly speaking, the up gradation is never gonna stop so i prefer a 2 ch amp than a mono bloc because of the flexibility it offers.
Leaving the MACKs and 911s part aside, I think this is a good idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clipto333
navinji, is there really a need to buy an expensive amp like the audison srx2s(well its expensive for me) :-) for bass duties? i mean will it make a big difference in terms of sq if i buy a similar wattage amp that is cheaper for e.g. the DUB amp?
Very seriously, no. A good two channel with hefty bridged power should cut it for you. But if you can afford it, might as well. You can't go wrong there. At all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by clipto333
navinji, can you explain the differences between a mono and a stereo amp?
and i hope im not asking too many questions
I'll let Navin answer your question, but I do want to point out that I absolutely do not regard a mono amp as a MACK and 2/ 4 channel amps as 911s. That would be a whole lot of generalization.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clipto333
lbm sir,

i really like the alpine amp for the looks. dont know how they sound but im sure it would be better in terms of sq than a comparable pio amp. i would like to know how it compares with a pio or other comparable amp in terms of sq. also the power output will be more than 500 cause my car gives out around 13.5v when the engine is running. damn i need big red gandhis lol.

thanks
clip
If you're never gonna buy a second sub ever, please dont spend additional money to buy an amp that has been designed for 2 ohms delivery. Its like paying for 240 kmph rated tyres for a Maruti 800, when you can buy 120 rated ones at a lower price. (P.S. This particular analogy is courtesy iraghava, who is my source of enlightenment in the tyres department. In fact, every time I see a tyre nowadays, I am reminded of him.)

Last edited by Bass&Trouble : 28th May 2007 at 20:55.
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Old 29th May 2007, 00:55   #116
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Clip, I agree 100% with what Ajay said. I think the cheapest upgrade (for loudness) right now is to build a ported box, as you were intending to do. Later, if and when you buy a sub amp, the sealed box you have can go back in your car.
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Old 29th May 2007, 05:29   #117
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Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble View Post
Clip, who has installed your system? I assume that it must have been entrusted to our deadly duo, Gunbir and JB. So I would not suspect anything to be wrong with respect to the install. But let me tell you, that even 200+ watts continuous power is quite a bit, and should ideally give the Hertz sub (or most subs) a good workout. With 4-500 watts, you'd be really banging it. So I hope it sounds the 200-250 watts that it should.
hi Ajay bhai,

according to you, how much power does this sub needs to play optimally?
IMHO, the sub can handle much more than 200w rms. it should be able to handle 350-400w without damaging it. correct me if im wrong.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble View Post
Please banish the DUB thoughts.
whats wrong with this amp? agreed its overrated but still, would like to know the category it comes into. what amp in your opinion is comparing to dub? just wanna know :-)


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Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble View Post
Specs are at 4 ohms, ahem, quite exaggerated also. Works well for people who absolutely insist on a mono and want it at a price, with no regard for some absurd levels of SQ etc.
what according to you would be the output of this amp without exaggeration?

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Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble View Post
I'm afraid I dont carry this right now. And it isnt going to outrun the 944 by a mile when operating 4 ohms, 12V.
thats why i dont prefer mono bloc amps which are designed for 2 or 1 ohm operation. its a waste if you have a 4 ohm svc sub as this leads to under utilization

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble View Post
Leaving the MACKs and 911s part aside, I think this is a good idea.
im 99.99%sure ill buy a 2 or 4 channel amp and in all probability, it would be an audison srx2s amp. IMO, its the best amp



Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble View Post
Very seriously, no. A good two channel with hefty bridged power should cut it for you. But if you can afford it, might as well. You can't go wrong there. At all.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble View Post
I'll let Navin answer your question, but I do want to point out that I absolutely do not regard a mono amp as a MACK and 2/ 4 channel amps as 911s. That would be a whole lot of generalization.


If you're never gonna buy a second sub ever, please dont spend additional money to buy an amp that has been designed for 2 ohms delivery. Its like paying for 240 kmph rated tyres for a Maruti 800, when you can buy 120 rated ones at a lower price. (P.S. This particular analogy is courtesy iraghava, who is my source of enlightenment in the tyres department. In fact, every time I see a tyre nowadays, I am reminded of him.)
got to go. rest will reply later

xheers
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Old 29th May 2007, 09:27   #118
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Originally Posted by navin View Post
Steg (another italian brand) maybe even more esoteric.
I want to ask that on what basis do you draw conclusion that one brand is more esoteric than other?

A/B listening test, test report, review, forums, price of reference product, design, materials / components used.
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Old 29th May 2007, 17:43   #119
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Clip, I agree 100% with what Ajay said. I think the cheapest upgrade (for loudness) right now is to build a ported box, as you were intending to do. Later, if and when you buy a sub amp, the sealed box you have can go back in your car.

hi,

i am planning to build a ported enclosure for my sub but im not sure what will be the effect on sq. want your expert advice on this gunman. what is the basic difference between properly designed sealed and ported enclosure for the same sub?

cheers
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Old 29th May 2007, 18:31   #120
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hi,

i am planning to build a ported enclosure for my sub but im not sure what will be the effect on sq. want your expert advice on this gunman. what is the basic difference between properly designed sealed and ported enclosure for the same sub?

cheers
clip
None.....if designed properly....with a +3db plus on the ported one
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