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Old 20th June 2007, 00:24   #61
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But the digital pressing of gaps in foil that relat in terms of laser wavelength to bits and bytes, digital data that is eventually converted to analog using DACs, cannot and should not change the audio quality.
That's exactly my feeling as well. You should get exactly the same data in all the copies. That is the main advantage of digital isnt it? And that is what has copyright police all scared.

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Unfortunately I dont have 2 CDs of any album. So if one of you do try CDDB and let us know.
I did that with my albums. No difference. But I did not think there would be as CDDB generates the discId using the track length and number of tracks and they are the same.

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Will CD Universe etc.. ship to India?
Don't know about CD Universe, but Amazon does ship to India. I received a couple of DVDs from them.
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Old 20th June 2007, 00:47   #62
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The same song on an India made CD sounds so much different to imported from europe/US CD (or even imported & sold in India). I had burnt my fingers in this & stopped buying from local stores, in fact stopped buying CDs at all.
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Old 20th June 2007, 01:10   #63
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Interesting discussion... I by and large buy imported CDs except where I dont have a choice. I end up replacing the Indian presses on my next visit abroad. I also make bit perfect copies on black (yes black!) CDs. I reserve this for only the really good music as I had to source these blanks CDs from abroad. Trust me, they sound really good... and are near indestructible. I use the Vinyl label ones on the right.



Anyone else tried them? Gary Leonard Koh of Genesis Advanced Technologies swears by them too. Here's a link to his white paper.

Last edited by gunbir : 20th June 2007 at 01:12.
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Old 20th June 2007, 01:20   #64
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Not sure if its only me but its pretty easy to make out different pressings of the same CD. I'm not talking about HDCD or SACD. I'm talking about different pressings of the same redbook CD. Also at times I've noticed that ripping a CD to hard drive with EAC and then listening to it sounds better than playing it straight off the dvd/cd drive being used as a transport. Probably gotta do with jitter and rubbish but its very very noticeable. Infact when using a decent cd player, a copy of the same CD re recorded on a high quality CD-R sounds better than the original at times. Not sure if its my senses fooling me but I've done ABX tests (not 100% scientific) and most of the times I seem to be able to spot the difference. Someone mentioned the difference between 320kbps mp3 and lossless. Well thats blatantly obvious... even without hifi. Even a cheap grado SR60/sennheiser HD485 headphone is enough to distinguish between them.

I'm a car audio n00b so was wondering... are car audio transports even half as good as half decent home audio transports? Say something comparable to a Cambridge Audio Azur 640C?

Last edited by reignofchaos : 20th June 2007 at 01:22.
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Old 20th June 2007, 01:38   #65
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@Gunbir: The white paper was quite interesting. I have some reservations, but I will read it again. Thanks for a good read.

@reignofchaos: I am not really sure if home audio and car audio can be compared that way. I mean the listening environment is entirely different so judging whether these two are sonically equivalent is a mighty ask.
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Old 20th June 2007, 02:02   #66
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I'm not talking about the final audio quality. I'm talking about specs... SNR/Jitter/Freq response etc.
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Old 20th June 2007, 02:54   #67
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I'm not talking about the final audio quality. I'm talking about specs... SNR/Jitter/Freq response etc.
Yes, depends what you're comparing. Have a good look at the Clarion HX-D2, Denon DCT-1, McIntosh MX406 and such.
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Old 20th June 2007, 10:37   #68
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@Navin, nope, CDDB does not differentiate between them. SImply because CDDB works on the combination of tracks and times. Not other data. CDDB even works equally well with CD-Rs that are good copies of the originals and even if songs are reconverted back from MP3 and arranged in the right sequence on a blank CD-r. (Not everytime but often)
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Interesting discussion... I by and large buy imported CDs except where I dont have a choice. I end up replacing the Indian presses on my next visit abroad. I also make bit perfect copies on black (yes black!) CDs. I reserve this for only the really good music as I had to source these blanks CDs from abroad.
You know Gunbir, I've used black CD's too, but purely for the novelty factor. Around 5-7 years ago, samsung released some fully coloured CD's. WHile the box has an assortment (Bright red, bright gree, blue and so on) there were always some jet black CD's in the box. Or if you bough singles, I'd prefer the Jet Black. Most people would look at it disbelievingly.
I wasn't too surprised becase my play station CDs used to come in the all black.
But an interesting read, nonetheless.
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Old 20th June 2007, 10:59   #69
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Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi View Post
@Navin, nope, CDDB does not differentiate between them. SImply because CDDB works on the combination of tracks and times. Not other data. CDDB even works equally well with CD-Rs that are good copies of the originals and even if songs are reconverted back from MP3 and arranged in the right sequence on a blank CD-r. (Not everytime but often)

You know Gunbir, I've used black CD's too, but purely for the novelty factor. Around 5-7 years ago, samsung released some fully coloured CD's. WHile the box has an assortment (Bright red, bright gree, blue and so on) there were always some jet black CD's in the box. Or if you bough singles, I'd prefer the Jet Black. Most people would look at it disbelievingly.
I wasn't too surprised becase my play station CDs used to come in the all black.
But an interesting read, nonetheless.
I agree I had a audio cd converted it to MP3 and back into a audio cd and the CDDB recognized the CD and I was shocked how it can recognized it....but as Sam Bhai said CDDB is a simple data base which tell the info about the tracks and there names but the lenth of the tracks in the CD.

I remember there were black blue green red one....I still have one left with me it is a Red one...here are the pics..






And my friend and I also discussed that the Black one was the best he had heard....

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Old 20th June 2007, 11:04   #70
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Originally Posted by reignofchaos View Post
I've noticed that ripping a CD to hard drive with EAC and then listening to it sounds better than playing it straight off the dvd/cd drive being used as a transport. Probably gotta do with jitter and rubbish but its very very noticeable. Infact when using a decent cd player, a copy of the same CD re recorded on a high quality CD-R sounds better than the original at times. Not sure if its my senses fooling me but I've done ABX tests (not 100% scientific) and most of the times I seem to be able to spot the difference. Someone mentioned the difference between 320kbps mp3 and lossless. Well thats blatantly obvious... even without hifi. Even a cheap grado SR60/sennheiser HD485 headphone is enough to distinguish between them.
Say something comparable to a Cambridge Audio Azur 640C?
Boy, you are reading my mind and speaking it too!

Yes, I agree fully that a copy on the hard disk is much more listenable than from the CD. Some good CD players now include a small 80-200GB hard drive in them. Also 1.8" HD are more resilient than 2.5" or 3.5" hard drives. I am soo waiting for 200GB 1.8" HD to hit the market. I think there was a thread on this sometime back.

Yes, atleast someone agrees that good MP3 is distinguishable from lossless (leave alone the original CD). I also agree that a copy made on a PC CD drive is distinguaishable from the orignal but I was not able to distinguish a copy made on a CD recorder (in this case a Marantz DR 6000) using good grade Music CDs. Maybe I was not listening closely enough becuase atleast one friend claimed he could hear the difference (on his system).

Lastly, SR60 and Senn 485/555 are very average. The phones (outside Stax) that are decent are the K701, HD 600, and DT 880 (best VFM of the 3). Older good phones include the HD580 and 565 but then when you have a phone at this level one needs a headphone amp.

I have not heard the 640C. How does it compare to say a Wadia 850?
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Old 20th June 2007, 11:08   #71
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@Navin, nope, CDDB does not differentiate between them. SImply because CDDB works on the combination of tracks and times. .
Yes Sam I knew that. I just asked becuase if CDDB did diffrentiate then maybe the masters used were different. BTW I felt sad when Feedb was closed down.
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Old 20th June 2007, 11:15   #72
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@navin: The Wadias are in a different class altogether. The Cambridge Audio Azur 640C is pretty entry level. Costs around 400$ but has a pretty solid transport and dual differential wolfson dacs. Sounds pretty sweet albeit a bit lean. Its a good reference for entry level midfi stuff.

As far as headphones are concerned, All I wanted to say was that even on low end headphones, one can make out the difference between 320kbps and lossless.

Personally I have a senn HD580 with Stefan AudioArt Equinox cables and a home built fully discrete Class A headamp . I intend to upgrade the headphone to HD650 soon. As of now, those cables are getting wasted on the HD580.
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Old 20th June 2007, 11:51   #73
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Hey guys i am completly new to ICE as buying my first car but i have some ideas about what exactly i wants as ICE, being new to this need some inputs as i know i am going to listen some assorted MP3s and FM and dont want the low bass n all just a pure and clear crisp music with bit of low range.
I ended up with this head unit Pioneer Electronics - Sound. Vision. Soul
and wants JBL front and rear sets, kindly suggest some good model even if its not available in india.
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Old 20th June 2007, 12:08   #74
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And my friend and I also discussed that the Black one was the best he had heard....
And what were your findings LBM? In what way did it sound different from a silver platter? I'm eager to compare your results with my own.
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Old 20th June 2007, 12:21   #75
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And what were your findings LBM? In what way did it sound different from a silver platter? I'm eager to compare your results with my own.
Yes Phaji the LOW end response and dynamics was better when compared to the Silver platter....
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