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Old 18th May 2012, 08:27   #271
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Default Re: Queries in 'Ask the gurus' section

Need advice on a new set-up as I am picking up a new car

1. Your Car: Ritz VXI
2. Current setup to be moved to new car: Pioneer 5250sd, Sony Amp - XM 504z, Blaupunkt Bass tube (not sure of the model 7 year old but sounds great)
3. Your Budget: 10k for Front Components & Rear Co-Axials, can exceed if I can get descent bass with good rear speakers, will not use the bass tube then
4. Do you drive most of the time or is it chauffeur driven? Self-Driven
5. Your Music preferences (Genres, favorite artists, etc.): Bollywood, Sufi, Soft Rock
6. Are you ready to sacrifice your boot space/modify door panels? : Would like to avoid modifications and if I can get descent bass would like to get rid of the bass tube and keep the boot empty
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Old 18th May 2012, 14:16   #272
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...
3. Your Budget: 10k for Front Components & Rear Co-Axials, can exceed if I can get descent bass with good rear speakers, will not use the bass tube then ...
Decent budget - you just have to go around some good shops and audition components first. JBL, Infinity, Bull, Auditor, Morel, Boston, ... there are plenty of brands. Audition, because you may like the sound signature of some - and absolutely hate some. Components would cost ~6K, and the coaxes ~3k. You will need some money to cover cables, wires and installation. By all means bring over the old stuff, but you haven't reckoned with damping? You should, unless you are used to rattles and buzzes. Damping reduces those, as well as road noise - and you get to hear better music.

No, none of the components / coaxials (even the 6x9 coaxes) can generate enough bass to match a sub. The sub handles frequencies that these speakers can't. Better not discard the sub, especially since your ears are used to the deeper lows.
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Old 18th May 2012, 14:33   #273
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By all means bring over the old stuff, but you haven't reckoned with damping? You should, unless you are used to rattles and buzzes. Damping reduces those, as well as road noise - and you get to hear better music.
Excellent advice seems like I missed that, would like to know the damage $$$ and what areas need to be damped i.e. should I get the front 2 doors and the boot or all the 4 doors and boot.

Any cheaper brands for damping, noise kill might be out of budget.

Recommendations for compact sub as I would like to save on boot space
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Old 30th May 2012, 15:57   #274
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Team just for the record have got the delivery of my Ritz and have got the ICE done from Sound Factor, Mira Road, Mumbai.

The set-up is as follows:
- Pioneer 5250SD (From my old car)
- Sony Explod 504z (From my old car)
- Blaupunkt Bass Tube GT Series (From my old car)
- Kicker Es6.25 componenets in the fronts
- Damping 1 sqft each on the front 2 doors

The car sounds good but I feel there is something missing, not getting the surround effect because the rear co-axials are missing.

Need advice on, should i go for rear co-axials or vanilla speaks in the rear door?

Have got mixed opinion on both but an advice would be highly appreciated.
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Old 31st May 2012, 09:54   #275
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... The car sounds good but I feel there is something missing, not getting the surround effect because the rear co-axials are missing. ...
1. The rear co-axials should not sound loud enough to be significantly heard in the front seats. Only if you bend back into the rear seat area should you be able to hear it. But, I can empathize with what you said - not having anything behind gives an odd feeling

2. If by "vanilla speakers" you mean whizzer/dual cone speakers, avoid - that would be money down the drain. Apart from anyone sitting in the rear seat not appreciating bad speakers, you yourself will be bothered by the bad sound from the rear

3. Get a pair of good coaxials for the rear, preferably Kicker since your front components are Kicker. Should cost you 2-3K
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Old 31st May 2012, 20:20   #276
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Default Re: Queries in 'Ask the gurus' section

Dear Gurus,

I need some help here. I have a Sony HU, 1 Sony Ovals at the rear, JBL GTO Series components in the front, and a Pioneer 4 Channel Amp powering them all in my 800.

The Amp and Comps have been recently installed. Now I am not sure if the local guy has tuned them all properly. I really need some guidance on how to tune the amp. If someone in Thane can spare a little of his time to may be meet me and help, I would be so grateful.

Awaiting Reply.

Apurva.
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Old 1st June 2012, 16:22   #277
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Hi guys.

Just came back after the modifications to bring the ICE in my Fabia upto speed.

But wondering what could be the reason for the clipping sound at very low volumes.

There is a definite clipping sound from the right side component, it is clearly audible at low volume, and seems to go away when the volume is increased.

The sound is also kind of muddy, not at all crisp and clear like it used to be earlier.

What could be the reason?

I am listing hereunder the setup for your ready reference:

Head unit: Pioneer DEH 6200 BT.
Front Comps: Illusion Audio Luccent IM 6.1.
Rear fills: Kenwood coaxials powered by the HU.
Amp1: JBL GT5-0604 powering the front comps in bridged mode,
Amp2: Panasonic 2003 powering the sub in bridged mode,
Sub: SI mag v2, sealed enclosure.

Also, the bass has now become recognisable. This also has to be taken care.

I can think of the following as culprits:

1. The wires from Xover to speakers,
2. Amp gain settings.

Please help me out guys.
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Old 4th June 2012, 11:08   #278
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... But wondering what could be the reason for the clipping sound at very low volumes. ...
What makes you describe the sound as 'clipping' sound? Could you describe the sound?

* Amp gain has nothing to do with it. Real clipping will occur near max HU volume

* As you suspect, it could be wrong wiring at the output side of the XO, i.e. tweeter connection to the mid terminals and vice versa. But, this will result in 'slapping' sound coming from tweeter when you increase volume (tweeter reaching excursion limits)

PS: "powering the front comps in bridged mode": Eh?????

Last edited by DerAlte : 4th June 2012 at 11:10.
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Old 4th June 2012, 11:36   #279
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What makes you describe the sound as 'clipping' sound? Could you describe the sound?
At low volumes, the sound is accompanied by a kirr-kirr sort of a sound. This rough sound matches the sound from the tweeter and the mid. As the sound is increased, the kirrrr gets hidden/eliminated, and what remains is a sound that is not exactly clear, rather, its muffled, like someone is covering the speaker by hand or something.

That I called clipping. I don't know what exactly to call it.

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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
* Amp gain has nothing to do with it. Real clipping will occur near max HU volume
Okay. Got it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
* As you suspect, it could be wrong wiring at the output side of the XO, i.e. tweeter connection to the mid terminals and vice versa. But, this will result in 'slapping' sound coming from tweeter when you increase volume (tweeter reaching excursion limits)
There is no slapping sound, howsoever high I might take the volume to.

But the sound has become very bright.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
PS: "powering the front comps in bridged mode": Eh?????
I am given to understand that Illusion IM 6.1 is a power hungry component, and would sound good only if fed with more power. So, powering with JBL 0604 in bridged mode.

Should I continue this way, or change it to single channel.

Last edited by deepfusion : 4th June 2012 at 11:38.
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Old 5th June 2012, 11:13   #280
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At low volumes, the sound is accompanied by a kirr-kirr sort of a sound. ...
I think you should check the speaker & XO wiring yourself once. Just trace the wires logically, i.e. from amp to XO input, mid from XO mid output to speaker, tweeter from XO tweeter output to tweeter.

The only other possibility is a kaput gain control potentiometer. See if changing the gain removes problem.

Quote:
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... I am given to understand that Illusion IM 6.1 is a power hungry component, and would sound good only if fed with more power. So, powering with JBL 0604 in bridged mode. ...
No it is not - it even plays decently off of the puny internal amps of HUs. Please switch to regular wiring - Amp Front Left to left XO, Amp Front Right to right XO.

Bridged mode is for feeding subs. For regular speakers, 'feeding more power' = higher power amplifier, not bridged mode!!! Wonder how you connected the RCA cables from the HU to the amp.

Last edited by DerAlte : 5th June 2012 at 11:16.
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Old 5th June 2012, 11:37   #281
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At low volumes, the sound is accompanied by a kirr-kirr sort of a sound. There is no slapping sound, howsoever high I might take the volume to. But the sound has become very bright.
There might be dust between the magnet and voice coil.

Remove speaker and gently push the dustcap of the speaker and feel for any roughness. The movement should be smooth with no sign of roughness.
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Old 5th June 2012, 12:36   #282
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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
I think you should check the speaker & XO wiring yourself once. Just trace the wires logically, i.e. from amp to XO input, mid from XO mid output to speaker, tweeter from XO tweeter output to tweeter.
Thanks. Shall do it this Saturday and confirm.

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The only other possibility is a kaput gain control potentiometer. See if changing the gain removes problem.
Now what's that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
No it is not - it even plays decently off of the puny internal amps of HUs. Please switch to regular wiring - Amp Front Left to left XO, Amp Front Right to right XO.
Okay. Got it. Shall wire the comps to two channels instead of four bridged to two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Bridged mode is for feeding subs. For regular speakers, 'feeding more power' = higher power amplifier, not bridged mode!!! Wonder how you connected the RCA cables from the HU to the amp.
I used Y splitters.


There might be dust between the magnet and voice coil.

Remove speaker and gently push the dustcap of the speaker and feel for any roughness. The movement should be smooth with no sign of roughness
.

@Navin. Thank you for the suggestion, Sir, I shall give it a try. BTW, the speakers have magnets mounted on the front. So, how do I do it?

Last edited by deepfusion : 5th June 2012 at 12:41.
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Old 6th June 2012, 18:31   #283
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Bridged mode is for feeding subs. For regular speakers, 'feeding more power' = higher power amplifier, not bridged mode!!! Wonder how you connected the RCA cables from the HU to the amp.
He is bridging 4 channels to 2 and feeding the components. That should be OK, right? Using 4 channel amp as two channel is norm. And one does get more power when bridging channels. My Audison is rated 65x4 and bridged it gives 170x2. Of course, whether his Lucent components require the extra watt is a different matter.
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Old 7th June 2012, 10:51   #284
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BTW, the speakers have magnets mounted on the front. So, how do I do it?
Magnet in front means there is no dust cap. You can do the same though by pressing the cone's apex but be gentle on the cone.
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Old 7th June 2012, 11:32   #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
Magnet in front means there is no dust cap. You can do the same though by pressing the cone's apex but be gentle on the cone.
I shall try it on Saturday, and confirm.


Quote:
Originally Posted by determinus View Post
He is bridging 4 channels to 2 and feeding the components. That should be OK, right? Using 4 channel amp as two channel is norm. And one does get more power when bridging channels. My Audison is rated 65x4 and bridged it gives 170x2. Of course, whether his Lucent components require the extra watt is a different matter.
The luccent comps are rated at 100Wx2. The JBL 0604 is giving 150WX2 in bridged mode. I have been told to feed them higher than rated power and that's what I am doing. I hope I am not wrong.

Its very very confusing, this ICE thing.
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