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Old 29th April 2014, 15:37   #541
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Default Re: Queries in 'Ask the gurus' section

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Originally Posted by kosh4u View Post
... As I understood from Satya, the front line output from Amp will be used to run both Components + Coaxials connected in parallel & the rear line output from Amp will be used to power the Sub in bridged mode. I hope I have got it correct or ? ...
No, I am sure Satya didn't mean that - you will lose Fader functionality if so. Rear is normally kept on HU if one is using a 4-channel amp.

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Originally Posted by kosh4u View Post
... There are no pre-out from the OEM HU & the speaker level has to go into the LOC, isn't it? ...
The speaker AND the LOC can be connected in parallel on the Speaker Out terminals of the HU. LOC draws negligible power.

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Originally Posted by kosh4u View Post
... I am not into SPL & 'boomy' sound. My music preference ranges from Classic Rock, Pop, Country to Classical - depending on my mood. So ported enclosure is not for me. Will current 8" Memphis suffice for Verna or minimum 10" is required? ...
Not all ported enclosures are boomy, but such enclosures are custom / factory made - not bought off-the-shelf. SPL doesn't have to be boomy - it is quality output albeit at significantly loud volumes.

No, the 8" is not going to cut it in the Verna boot. Even the 10" is not going to be impressive. The incremental cost for a 12" sub in sealed box is very small - and that is what you should go for. An Infinity Reference, JBL or Polk 12" sub in a sealed box will be less than a Cerwin Vega 10".
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Old 29th April 2014, 18:24   #542
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Default Re: Queries in 'Ask the gurus' section

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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
No, I am sure Satya didn't mean that - you will lose Fader functionality if so. Rear is normally kept on HU if one is using a 4-channel amp.

The speaker AND the LOC can be connected in parallel on the Speaker Out terminals of the HU. LOC draws negligible power.
Oops. Sorry, I got confused with these two..

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
No, the 8" is not going to cut it in the Verna boot. Even the 10" is not going to be impressive. The incremental cost for a 12" sub in sealed box is very small - and that is what you should go for. An Infinity Reference, JBL or Polk 12" sub in a sealed box will be less than a Cerwin Vega 10".
Ok. I will keep this mind - by the way, how good are the shallow depth ones? [like Rockford Fosgate P3 12 shallow mount]
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Old 30th April 2014, 12:19   #543
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Default Re: Queries in 'Ask the gurus' section

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Originally Posted by kosh4u View Post
... by the way, how good are the shallow depth ones? [like Rockford Fosgate P3 12 shallow mount]
Not many of these around. Pioneer also has one. These are meant for deployment in situations where space is at a premium. Side mounting in the boot or hatch door, sometimes on parcel trays. Biggest disadvantage: not VFM. Cost more than regular 12" subs with lesser performance - less loudness and significant boominess.

Subs make bass by moving large volume of air - cone travel being the most significant factor. Shallow subs have limited cone travel, and hence don't go that loud.
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Old 5th May 2014, 11:17   #544
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Default Re: Queries in 'Ask the gurus' section

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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
LOL if you are happy, we are happy - that is the greatest approval! Go ahead. Do mention the prices when the installation is completed, and post pics.
Hi DerAlte,

Got the installation done. There are some issues which I am facing even after setting the gains properly and trying all permutations with fine-tuning of amp.

- The front components (Infinity Ref) at the time of audition were sounding good when connected to the stock HU however once they are connected to the amp they are sounding very bright with hardly any mid bass and delivering bass same as stock speakers.

- The sub(JBL 1215B) has a very little punch and delivering more of a boomy bass like just another Sony Xplod which I had in my earlier car.

- Even after keeping the treble at lowest possible range there is too much (Chan-Chan) sound. However instrument sound is coming out clear.

The amp in question is - JBL GTO 804EZ (With front comps running and sub in bridged mode)
LOC and complete wiring is of Scoche
Front speakers running on HPF setting with 100Hz and sub on LPF 90Hz (Have tried almost all combinations but not getting the desired results)

What went wrong here?
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Old 5th May 2014, 13:25   #545
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Default Re: Queries in 'Ask the gurus' section

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Originally Posted by sudeep.pandya View Post
... - The front components (Infinity Ref) at the time of audition were sounding good when connected to the stock HU however once they are connected to the amp they are sounding very bright with hardly any mid bass and delivering bass same as stock speakers. ...
Not a good quality job done by the installer. These should have been checked at the time of installation (assuming they know what this is about)
* Reverse the polarity of *one* of the mid-bass speakers
* Access the XO - sounds like the switch is set to +2dB. Set it to 0dB

Quote:
Originally Posted by sudeep.pandya View Post
... - The sub(JBL 1215B) has a very little punch and delivering more of a boomy bass like just another Sony Xplod which I had in my earlier car. ...
LOL Can't be as bad as the Sony. If you have a small old pillow / cushion lying around, unscrew the sub carefully, place it inside the cabinet, and mount the sub back. That should tighten the bass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sudeep.pandya View Post
... - Even after keeping the treble at lowest possible range there is too much (Chan-Chan) sound. ...
See above - I suspect a wrong setting in the XO. Also, please keep all tone controls and equalizer to 0 in HU.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sudeep.pandya View Post
... Front speakers running on HPF setting with 100Hz and sub on LPF 90Hz ...
A bit too high. Set HPF AND LPF to 80Hz. Compare if there is a difference if you go lower, say 70 or 60Hz. Always set both HPF (for front) and LPF (for sub) to the same frequency.
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Old 5th May 2014, 13:47   #546
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Default Re: Queries in 'Ask the gurus' section

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Not a good quality job done by the installer. These should have been checked at the time of installation (assuming they know what this is about)
* Reverse the polarity of *one* of the mid-bass speakers
* Access the XO - sounds like the switch is set to +2dB. Set it to 0dB
Ok I will get this checked.

[/quote]
LOL Can't be as bad as the Sony. If you have a small old pillow / cushion lying around, unscrew the sub carefully, place it inside the cabinet, and mount the sub back. That should tighten the bass.[/quote]

Can this also be considered as a polarity issue?

[/quote]
See above - I suspect a wrong setting in the XO. Also, please keep all tone controls and equalizer to 0 in HU.[/quote]

Even 0 is turning out to be too bright and chilla chilla sound is tiring to hear. Not able to listen more than 5 mins.

[/quote]
A bit too high. Set HPF AND LPF to 80Hz. Compare if there is a difference if you go lower, say 70 or 60Hz. Always set both HPF (for front) and LPF (for sub) to the same frequency.[/quote]

I tried going lower but there is hardly any bass coming. In order to avoid *Hole* i have kept the same on almost an equal level.

The manual for the amp says that there is no need for Loc but the installer suggested to have. I saw many gain setting options (Scoche Loc) on the cover, does that going to make any difference? or have they goofed up there also?
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Old 5th May 2014, 14:09   #547
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Default Re: Queries in 'Ask the gurus' section

Quote:
Originally Posted by sudeep.pandya View Post
... Can this also be considered as a polarity issue? ...
Boominess is not the result of polarity. Polarity and sub direction (try changing either or both to see the effect) will affect the bass loudness and integration with front stage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sudeep.pandya View Post
... Even 0 is turning out to be too bright and chilla chilla sound is tiring to hear. Not able to listen more than 5 mins. ...
Can you put up pics of your installation, preferably from the rear seat? Wanted to check the direction the tweeters are facing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sudeep.pandya View Post
... I tried going lower but there is hardly any bass coming. In order to avoid *Hole* i have kept the same on almost an equal level. ...
You have actually created a 'hole', albeit a small one. No worries - control one thing at a time. First get the sub under control. Remember, the absence of the sub should be felt more than the presence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sudeep.pandya View Post
... The manual for the amp says that there is no need for Loc but the installer suggested to have. I saw many gain setting options (Scoche Loc) on the cover, does that going to make any difference? or have they goofed up there also?
Yes, the JBL 804 accepts speaker level inputs, and the adapter for the same is supplied in the box. The same should have been used. You should have over-ruled the installer - probably you know more than him!

The installer just sold you the LOC unnecessarily - he should take it back. No, the LOC 'gain settings' are pointless.
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Old 5th May 2014, 15:42   #548
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Default Re: Queries in 'Ask the gurus' section

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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Boominess is not the result of polarity. Polarity and sub direction (try changing either or both to see the effect) will affect the bass loudness and integration with front stage.

Sure I will try both the combinations.

Can you put up pics of your installation, preferably from the rear seat? Wanted to check the direction the tweeters are facing.

Tweeters are placed on the OEM location. Will share the pics shortly.

You have actually created a 'hole', albeit a small one. No worries - control one thing at a time. First get the sub under control. Remember, the absence of the sub should be felt more than the presence.

Point taken.

Yes, the JBL 804 accepts speaker level inputs, and the adapter for the same is supplied in the box. The same should have been used. You should have over-ruled the installer - probably you know more than him!

There are 4 RCA adapters provided in the box. Will instruct the installer to make use of them.

The installer just sold you the LOC unnecessarily - he should take it back. No, the LOC 'gain settings' are pointless.
Sure I will return the same. I kind of panicked after the installation as I was not getting the desired results. Thanks for the rescue mate
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Old 6th May 2014, 11:57   #549
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Default Re: Queries in 'Ask the gurus' section

ICE Gurus - Please help me out.

I am pretty much bored with the OEM music system in my Ertiga Vxi. So, these are the options that's running in my mind. Could you please let me know which would be the best option. I am planning to use few equipments from my previous car (Fiesta).

Option A

OEM Headunit, New Components (Front), Converter, 4 channel amp, Sub woofer

Option B

OEM Headunit, New Components (Front), 4 channel amp (with plethora of tuning options, eg: Sinus Live), Sub woofer

Option C

Aftermarket Headunit, New Components (Front), 4 channel amp, Sub woofer

Option D (OE Look)

OEM Headunit, New Components (Front)

Option E

Aftermarket Headunit, New Components (Front)
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Old 6th May 2014, 14:46   #550
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Default Re: Queries in 'Ask the gurus' section

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... So, these are the options that's running in my mind. ...
Depends on your budget. Option A if low budget, Option C otherwise. Some amps like Kenwood M846 and JBL X646 accept Speaker-level input signal - no converter required.

Having a plethora of controls on the amp is not necessarily an advantage, nor a sign of good engineering.
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Old 6th May 2014, 15:13   #551
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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Depends on your budget. Option A if low budget, Option C otherwise.
Thanks DerAlte.

I guess I would stick to Option C then.

Regarding the Sub Woofer, I have a 8' HAT Sub in a ported enclosure. Due to space contraints in Ertiga I wouldn't be able to accomodate this right?

So, do I need to consider shallow mount?

Also, can I mount the Amp under the third row seat?
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Old 6th May 2014, 16:48   #552
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... I have a 8' HAT Sub in a ported enclosure. Due to space contraints in Ertiga I wouldn't be able to accomodate this right? ...
Can't visualize since I don't know a. the box dimensions and b. the space under the 3rd row.

If that sub has given you good service, and the original box won't go below the seat, see if you can fashion a ported box (with volume and port dia and length same as in the current box) made of FG in the side panel of the 3rd row or boot - on the side opposite the fuel filler. A good installer should be able to help you with that, though many people have done it themselves - not a difficult job. There are a few threads in the Sound Off and Show Off section as well as the DIY section.
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Old 6th May 2014, 19:01   #553
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Default Re: Queries in 'Ask the gurus' section

Hi DerAlte;

I am facing a kind of jarring sound from one of rear mounted speakers. There is no specific condition when this sound comes and it just happens on its own. I changed the left rear and front HU connections from amplifier and jarring sound started coming from front left speaker.
I am using JBL 6X9 at rear and Kenwood 4'' at front with kenwood 646 amp without amp.

What do you suggest? Is amp going bad a possibility?

Thanks!!
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Old 7th May 2014, 10:23   #554
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Originally Posted by sparkguy View Post
Hi DerAlte;

I am facing a kind of jarring sound from one of rear mounted speakers.
Got this issue resolved today morning. Tighten all the connections from/to HU, speakers and Amp and I am enjoying music again.

Thanks!!
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Old 7th May 2014, 11:21   #555
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Default Re: Queries in 'Ask the gurus' section

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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post

Can you put up pics of your installation, preferably from the rear seat? Wanted to check the direction the tweeters are facing.
Here is the OEM location where the tweeters are installed -
Attached Thumbnails
Queries in 'Ask the gurus' section-img_2481.jpg  

Queries in 'Ask the gurus' section-img_2480.jpg  

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