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Old 7th August 2007, 21:26   #31
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Must be Bose. Just kidding.
Using a pair? Is it a stereo pair?
I think it was CDT Audio or some such US manufacturer. Yes, separate stereo pairs.

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HT?
"Drivers made by Home Theater manufacturer; can be driven till 50Wrms". They are actually pretty decent (not bright) - yet to try it with amps though.

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If I were to guess: configuration, positioning/ aiming, frequency responses of the various drivers, crossover cut-off frequencies, and the aid of electronic tools that help correct distance/ time related anomalies?
Yes, these sound logical (except for the frequency parts).

Confusing array of "quick" solutions by many different companies, though. Check out the CDT Audio website, for example.
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Old 7th August 2007, 21:34   #32
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then it sorta went over my head!
OK, we'll aim lower the next time!!! Sorry, dada, just felt naughty.

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@DerAlte: I know this is not the 'ideal' setup, in that the tweeters don't point to the occupant on the other side, but I am actually happy about this arrangement and the sound isn't subdued at all. If changing the tweeter directions make them 'brighter' then I prefer them this way.
That's what matters more than all the technology and analysis, right? Most others are searching, you have already found it. Bless you - may there be more of your ilk! Enjoy.
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Old 7th August 2007, 23:11   #33
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I think it was CDT Audio or some such US manufacturer. Yes, separate stereo pairs.
You are referring to CDT "Stagefront Systems". Similar concept was in Boston Acoustics by the name of "Imaging Systems"
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Old 8th August 2007, 10:40   #34
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I think it was CDT Audio or some such US manufacturer. Yes, separate stereo pairs.
I didn't find any arrangement where there was one stereo pair per side. The image enhancement systems are supertweeters that add 'air'. They are meant to enhance the image, not create it.

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"Drivers made by Home Theater manufacturer; can be driven till 50Wrms". They are actually pretty decent (not bright) - yet to try it with amps though.
Home hi-fi speakers manufacturer, right.

There's a new line out now, which has higher efficiency, no bass-blocker etc.

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Yes, these sound logical (except for the frequency parts).
Which frequency parts? Crossover or driver responses?
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Old 8th August 2007, 13:32   #35
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You are referring to CDT "Stagefront Systems". Similar concept was in Boston Acoustics by the name of "Imaging Systems"
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I didn't find any arrangement where there was one stereo pair per side.
The original page seems to have moved - I had seen it 3 months back. Look carefully at the top photo in this link: CDTAUDIO Premium Car Audio Sound Systems - you can make out the tweeters on the dash middle facing left and right. These were the complementary (Driver's R and Passenger's L) drivers in the original page. The original photo has been reused in this page without removing those tweeters. Maybe they dropped the original idea due to lack of sales.

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The image enhancement systems are supertweeters that add 'air'. They are meant to enhance the image, not create it.
Imagine paying $100 for "hawa"! Joking - got your point.

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Home hi-fi speakers manufacturer, right.
There's a new line out now, which has higher efficiency, no bass-blocker etc.
Who IS the manufacturer, btw? The part no. does not show up in any spares sales listing.
I removed the bass-blocker in my setup.

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Which frequency parts? Crossover or driver responses?
Both, since driver (inherent) response is related to XO behaviour/cutoffs. What I meant was it has a non-intuitive/obvious relationship with imaging. Perhaps you can explain, guruji?

OEO, where are you hiding? (Must be doing some physics research on wave intersections and aural imaging)
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Old 22nd June 2008, 14:35   #36
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It's been a while since I set up the ICE in my car. And right off the bat, let me say that it's been one of the best upgrades I have made in this car.
Quick recap of what I am using:
  • HU: Alpine CDE 9881
  • Amp (4-channel): JBL GTO-75.4
  • Sub: JBL GT4-12
  • Front: Illusion Electra EL6.1 2 way components
  • Rear: Pioneer TS-A6982R 4-way Coaxials
  • Connection wires: Stinger SWK8RS Pro Series wiring kit plus additional Monster Car Audio speaker wires & Phoenix Gold RCA cable
  • Full Damping for the front doors (Noisekill)
Likes:
The overall sound is great, and I love it. The fronts are smooth and powerful at the same time - the tweeters are crisp without being too bright, and the mid-basses pack a good punch. The sub produces tight bass, which is not too boomy. Just the way I like it.

Dislikes:
The rear coaxes are somewhat a misfit in this setup. Now, I auditioned the JBL GTO937 and a Kicker coax (forgot the model) along with the Pios, and I liked the Pios the best. I use these as rear fills, but at times, when everything else is sounding nice, these tend to impart a harshness to the overall effect. They are also possibly a bit underpowered since I run them off the HU.
What are my options to improve this?
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Old 22nd June 2008, 22:13   #37
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What are my options to improve this?
Simmmppppple. Get a pair of Illusion Electra EL 693 ovals
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Old 26th June 2008, 17:58   #38
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Yesterday evening, switched to Pioneer 2-way coaxials for rear fill. I don't know the model number, but the cones are made of kevlar. These were very kindly donated by nura Thanks a lot doc!
I must say the new speakers are a better fit to the overall setup, and complement the other components perfectly. So for now, I'm back to being happy with my car's ICE

Last edited by razor4077 : 26th June 2008 at 17:59.
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Old 27th June 2008, 23:16   #39
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The model number is TS-D691R. Here is some more info.
Pioneer TS-D691R 6"x9" 2-way car speakers at Crutchfield.com
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Old 28th June 2008, 03:27   #40
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Yesterday evening, switched to Pioneer 2-way coaxials for rear fill. .....
Great to hear that. Waiting for an audition.
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Old 8th September 2008, 15:53   #41
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I have a peculiar problem with my setup (please refer to earlier posts for setup details). The front right components were not playing right - there was a crackling sort of disturbance being emitted from both the midbass and the tweeter. The left side speakers was working fine. I switched the left-right channels on the amp to see if the amp was at fault, but the problem persisted even with the channels switched. <Relieved!> So the amp was ok.
Sent the car to the ICE installer's. Was tied up with work so couldn't go myself to supervise. Asked them to check ONLY the front right crossover & wiring and nothing else. But of course, they fiddled with the entire setup, and when I got the car back, this is what I found:
- Crackling sound from speakers gone, but has been replaced by a continuous soft "hissing' noise coming mainly from the front right tweeter.
- They had changed the HU and amp settings completely - treble was turned up, bass turned down, amp gains increased, bass boost for the sub switched on & turned up.....
- I brought the HU back to normal, and adjusted the amp so that it was back to what it was. This resulted in the rears & sub almost fading out completely. I found the only way to make the sub audible was to set the amp gain at max and turn up the bass boost. NOT what I want to do! Rear fills still barely audible.
- Tried making adjustments from the HU, then found a strange problem - the fader works like the balance feature. Instead of fading front/rear, it's going right/left!!
- Another thing is there is some vibration in the left front door (not sure where from exactly) when the midbass is putting out some heavy bass. Never happened before. The door has 2 layers of Noisekill damping.

Can the gurus shed some light on any of the above problems? Thanks in advance.
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Old 8th September 2008, 16:37   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razor4077
I switched the left-right channels on the amp to see if the amp was at fault, but the problem persisted even with the channels switched. <Relieved!> So the amp was ok.
Did you interchange the RCA plugs? Or you interchanged the speaker wire at the amp's terminals?

Quote:
Originally Posted by razor4077
- Crackling sound from speakers gone, but has been replaced by a continuous soft "hissing' noise coming mainly from the front right tweeter.
Do try temporarily swapping the RCA cable for another one.

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Originally Posted by razor4077
- Tried making adjustments from the HU, then found a strange problem - the fader works like the balance feature. Instead of fading front/rear, it's going right/left!!
They probably removed the RCA cables and plugged them back in incorrectly. This is easy to fix.

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Originally Posted by razor4077
- Another thing is there is some vibration in the left front door (not sure where from exactly) when the midbass is putting out some heavy bass. Never happened before. The door has 2 layers of Noisekill damping.
You will have to open the door panels again and check that the driver has been securely re-installed. Another possibility is that the blokes may have switched on bass boost for the speaker channels also and damaged the driver during some overzealous testing.
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Old 8th September 2008, 17:48   #43
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Thanks for the inputs Ajay.

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Did you interchange the RCA plugs? Or you interchanged the speaker wire at the amp's terminals?
The speaker wire, like you had advised. Basically ran the right speakers off the left channel and the left speakers off the right channel. The former still didn't sound right, while the latter remained fine. Or did you want me to try something else?
Quote:
Do try temporarily swapping the RCA cable for another one.
Ok, will give that a shot. But if the RCA cable was at fault, wouldn't both the sets of front speakers have issues? Same cable, right?
Quote:
They probably removed the RCA cables and plugged them back in incorrectly. This is easy to fix.
Would this error be at the HU-end?
Quote:
You will have to open the door panels again and check that the driver has been securely re-installed. Another possibility is that the blokes may have switched on bass boost for the speaker channels also and damaged the driver during some overzealous testing.
Will check the installation. There's no bass boost for the front channels in the 75.4, so doubt this is the case.
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Old 8th September 2008, 17:53   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razor4077
Or did you want me to try something else?
Nope, same thing.

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Originally Posted by razor4077
Ok, will give that a shot. But if the RCA cable was at fault, wouldn't both the sets of front speakers have issues? Same cable, right?
Not necessary. Do try. Also check the speaker wire isn't accidentally stripped and/ or shorting somewhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by razor4077
Would this error be at the HU-end?
Could be at HU or amplifier end.
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Old 10th September 2008, 17:04   #45
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Turns out that the ICE setup was not messed up at the installer/accessory shop, but at HM. The car was in an HM workshop recently to get a leaking AC pipe taken care of. The pipe was actually leaking in front of the front passenger's seat, so the carpet there was soaked at all times. The guys at HM removed the seats and carpeting to dry out the latter and replace the pipe.
I had removed the sub and HU faceplate when I had given them the car. But, it turns out they know of a way to make the music system work even WITHOUT the HU!!! I wouldn't have believed it, but my driver had seen them do this with his own eyes. So apparently they listened to music in my car while it was there for a couple of days, and fiddled around with the wiring, thus messing it up completely. I am seriously considering filing a complaint against HM for being so callous and unprofessional, but I know that it won't help anything (I have been shortchanged by these as****es before).

I intend to get the entire setup checked and sorted out this weekend. At the moment, it is very depressing listening to music in my car. It took me a while to get everything tuned and playing to my liking. Am back to square zero now. I only hope I can get things back to the way they were.
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