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Old 17th December 2009, 09:58   #181
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Check RCA connector as well wiring up to speakers.
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Old 1st July 2012, 15:52   #182
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Sharing recent expewrience with setup. May prove useful for someone with similar problem.
Had removed HU, amps, crossovers, speakers & sub a few weeks ago & given car to workshop for body repair & exterior paint. Disconnected amp power cables from battery but left all cables in place.
Put all equipment back in when car returned & wired everything together like it was earlier. ICE worked fine for a day or two. Then the problems started. First the loudness of the front speakers got considerably reduced. After a few hours the front left speakers fell completely silent.
Decided to investigate a bit before calling for the doctor. Took out the HU & reversed the front RCA going in at the back (stuck red jack into white socket & white jack into red socket). No change, front left speakers still silent, front right speakers still working. Concluded HU probably fine, problem further downstream.
Reconnected RCA correctly to HU (red jack into red socket, white into white) & reversed at amp end. What's this? Front left speakers playing, front right also playing! Not for long though. After a few minutes the front right speakers stop playing. Intermittently faulty RCA? Luckily a spare RCA cable had been run at the time of original installation nearly 5 years ago. Disconnected suspect RCA from HU & amp. Connected spare RCA to HU & amp. Switched on system. Voila, everything is working as it should once again.
Would like to mention that the system should be switched off before fooling around with the RCA cables.
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Old 4th July 2012, 18:52   #183
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Was premature in assuming everything was perfect. Realised after a while that the high notes were coming only from the left side. Further investigation with a rolled up newspaper revealed that there was no sound from the right tweeter. Connected right tweeter to left crossover and left tweeter to right crossover and confirmed that it was indeed a tweeter not a crossover malfunction. Removed tweeter from wedge housing and peeped in through narrow opening in the side. Seems voice coil has got detached from binding post. Wire end is visible but is at some depth from the opening.
My questions to the gurus:-
Is the tweeter repairable? DIY possible?
If irreparable, can I buy a pair of new tweeters from a different company? Or will there be a mismatch with the existing crossovers?
Finally, who is the current distributor for Hertz/Audison in India?
Thanks in advance for your replies.
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Old 4th July 2012, 20:17   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nura
Was premature in assuming everything was perfect. Realised after a while that the high notes were coming only from the left side. Further investigation with a rolled up newspaper revealed that there was no sound from the right tweeter. Connected right tweeter to left crossover and left tweeter to right crossover and confirmed that it was indeed a tweeter not a crossover malfunction. Removed tweeter from wedge housing and peeped in through narrow opening in the side. Seems voice coil has got detached from binding post. Wire end is visible but is at some depth from the opening.
My questions to the gurus:-
Is the tweeter repairable? DIY possible?
If irreparable, can I buy a pair of new tweeters from a different company? Or will there be a mismatch with the existing crossovers?
Finally, who is the current distributor for Hertz/Audison in India?
Thanks in advance for your replies.
1. Yes the tweeter is repairable but it requires some very careful soldering.
2. If you have to replace the tweeters you need to get the same brand and model as was delivered with the original component set. It is highly unlikely that mix and match would work well.
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Old 4th July 2012, 21:17   #185
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Default Re: Santro ICE - Installation & Tuning Queries

Thank you for your reply, Sir. Do you think I will need to dissemble the tweeter before attempting the soldering? I will need a short length of wire to bridge the gap. Any specifications for the wire?
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Old 5th July 2012, 22:32   #186
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Default Re: Santro ICE - Installation & Tuning Queries

Spoke to a couple of people here in Kolkata. They were fairly pessimistic about being able to repair the tweeter.
Called up Kumar's, Bangalore, the distributors for Hertz. They do not have the HT25 tweeters.
Looks like I will need to buy a different brand. Any suggestions?
Will I be able to connect them to the old crossovers without causing any problems to either the tweeters or the crossovers?
Thanks again.
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Old 6th July 2012, 10:53   #187
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Default Re: Santro ICE - Installation & Tuning Queries

Quote:
Originally Posted by nura View Post
Thank you for your reply, Sir. Do you think I will need to dissemble the tweeter before attempting the soldering? I will need a short length of wire to bridge the gap. Any specifications for the wire?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nura View Post
Spoke to a couple of people here in Kolkata. They were fairly pessimistic about being able to repair the tweeter.
Called up Kumar's, Bangalore, the distributors for Hertz. They do not have the HT25 tweeters.
Looks like I will need to buy a different brand. Any suggestions?
Will I be able to connect them to the old crossovers without causing any problems to either the tweeters or the crossovers?
Thanks again.
1. yes removing the tweeter will give you better access; the soldering is delicate enough on a soldering bench.

2. Any copper wire will do. The wire is not part of the voice coil and does not vibrate in the magnetic gap so as long as it is flexible (stranded) it will work.

3. If the HT25 tweeters are not available then you are stuck. Using different tweeters would lead to a very different sound. The best you can do is find a tweeter that has similar or lower Fs and frequency response and impedance as the HT25. Can Kumars at least provide you with Fs value, impedance and frequecny response curves?
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Old 6th July 2012, 12:32   #188
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Default Re: Santro ICE - Installation & Tuning Queries

Disassembling the tweeter and soldering the lead wire would be a better option IMHO. The technicians refusing to do that would be because of the hassle of disassembling it and the associated perceived risk of "what if it gets rogered even more?"!

But, Arun babu, I think you can do it yourself without worrying too much about that. Apart from the tools to disassemble and the soldering iron & wire, you will need a short length of shielded wire whose shield you can purloin if the VC lead wire is too short to work with. To minimise the time with soldering iron on the VC side, carefully scrape both the lead wire and the shield with a blade and 'tin' the parts to be joined. Don't use too much solder. 'Tinning' reduces the soldering time.
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Old 6th July 2012, 16:54   #189
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Thank you for your replies. These people believe that the voice coil is fried & that I am only imagining that the wire has come off the binding post. They could be right. The gap we are trying to peep through is really tight. I don't think I can dissemble the tweeter myself so will try to find someone more capable.
I have the electro-acoustic parameters of the HT 25 with me.
D mm 25
Xmax mm 2
Re ohm 3.2
Fs Hz 1200
Le mH@1kHz 0.6
Le mH@10kHz 0.04
Vas lit 0.42
Mms gr 3.1
Cms mm/N 0.33
BL T-m 3.9
Qts 0.75
Qes 0.75
Qes 1.7
Qms 1.4
Spl db 92

I also have a diagram of the external crossover with the values of the individual components. Can scan & attach if helpful.
Sincerest thanks for taking out the time to help.
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Old 6th July 2012, 20:10   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nura
I have the electro-acoustic parameters of the HT 25 with me.
D mm 25
Xmax mm 2
Re ohm 3.2
Fs Hz 1200
Le mH@1kHz 0.6
Le mH@10kHz 0.04
Vas lit 0.42
Mms gr 3.1
Cms mm/N 0.33
BL T-m 3.9
Qts 0.75
Qes 0.75
Qes 1.7
Qms 1.4
Spl db 92

I also have a diagram of the external crossover with the values of the individual components. Can scan & attach if helpful.
Sincerest thanks for taking out the time to help.
All the values in the world won't help. First, the only tweeter that will sound the same is the same tweeter.
If you replace, then you must buy the pair, or it will sound weird.

If the voice coil is indeed ok, then it is perfectly ok to repair. If you cannot, any speaker repair shop can. If the voice coil is open, I recommend you do not repair.
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Old 6th July 2012, 23:02   #191
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Default Re: Santro ICE - Installation & Tuning Queries

Thanks, Sam!
If the tweeter can't be repaired, will certainly buy a pair, not just one piece. I guess the new pair needs to sound somewhat similar to the old one too.
The other worry is whether there will be a mismatch between the new pair & the old external crossovers.
One very stupid question - can a pair of tweeters with in-line crossovers be connected to the existing crossovers? These are easier to find than component tweeters. I am guessing the extra caps would substantially deteriorate the sound.

Last edited by nura : 6th July 2012 at 23:09.
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Old 7th July 2012, 10:30   #192
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Default Re: Santro ICE - Installation & Tuning Queries

Quote:
Originally Posted by nura View Post
... can a pair of tweeters with in-line crossovers be connected to the existing crossovers? These are easier to find than component tweeters. I am guessing the extra caps would substantially deteriorate the sound.
Yes and no. The in-line caps pass through high frequencies (they are just a simple high-pass filter, meaning allow everything above a certain frequency). The problem will come only if the XO is designed to pass everything above a frequency which is *lower* than permitted by the in-line cap. In that case, you will have a 'hole' in that frequency band. Better to bypass the inline cap.
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Old 7th July 2012, 11:47   #193
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Default Re: Santro ICE - Installation & Tuning Queries

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Disassembling the tweeter and soldering the lead wire would be a better option IMHO. .. 'Tinning' reduces the soldering time.
Alo remember that there is a rather powerful NdFeB magnet that will pull on the soldering iron. I would recommend using a low watt (say 6W) soldering iron with a fine tip to limit damage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nura View Post
Xmax mm 2
Re ohm 3.2
Fs Hz 1200
I also have a diagram of the external crossover with the values of the individual components. Can scan & attach if helpful.
most crossovers are designed to work with a particular tweeter/woofer. Mixing crossovers and drvirs leads to unpredictable results. The T/S specs you posted are not unusal for a tweeter such as the HT25 but we dont have the frequency response or impedace curves of the HT25 nor any other tweeters that might be a suitable alternate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi View Post
If you replace, then you must buy the pair, or it will sound weird..
From what reported there are no replacements for the HT25 tweeter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nura View Post
The other worry is whether there will be a mismatch between the new pair & the old external crossovers.
One very stupid question - can a pair of tweeters with in-line crossovers be connected to the existing crossovers?
A tweeter with an inline crossover is usually a hardy tweeter (in line crossovers due to lack of space are usually just a simple capacitor) so it will work (read as "wont fail") with the component crossover (you should remove the inline crossover) but whether it will match the crossover and woofer and what the system will sound like cannot be predicted.
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Old 20th July 2012, 23:57   #194
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Default Re: Santro ICE - Installation & Tuning Queries

An update.
Took the tweeter to a small shop called Debry in Chandni Chowk a few days ago. Recommended by a friend who was into DIY home audio many years ago.
The elderly gentleman brushed a little amyl acetate onto the back of the tweeter & prised it open. Checked with an ancient DIMM & said there was an open in the voice coil. He said he would unwind the voice coil, keeping count of the number of turns, find wire of the same gauge & make a new voice coil pretty much identical to the damaged one & asked me to come back after a few days. What did I have to lose anyway?
Went back to him a few days ago & he connected the tweeter to what looked like an ancient radio & by golly it was actually working & working quite well too.
Wired it back into my system this evening & had a brief listen & it's really sounding the same as the other tweeter.
Tweeter voice coil replacement charges, if you must ask, eighty rupees!
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Old 24th July 2012, 13:13   #195
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Sorry to pester you again Gurujis. One of the OEM car horns had stopped working a few weeks ago. Had replaced both with a pair of Bosch Symphonies. Now hear a faint scratching sound from the left (unrepaired) tweeter sometimes when I blow the horn. The repaired tweeter is on the right side.
The same problem had appeared many years earlier & disappeared after an unterminated power cable was terminated.
This time there is no unterminted power cable. There is an unterminated bad RCA cable, though. But then I had an unterminated good RCA cable all these years without any problems. Is it possible that the good RCA cable did not have an antenna effect but the bad one does? Or is it the new pair of horns that is solely responsible for the scratching sound?
Will remove the bad RCA cable from the car this evening after getting a few panels opened.
I suppose capacitor(s) will be needed, as you had advised earlier, if the problem persists. What value, how many (2 horns) & where exactly?
Why does the scratching sound always come from the left side? Because the horns are on the left side? Or because the power cables have been run along the left side? The RCAs, by the way, are on the right side.
Thanks a ton in advance.
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