Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > In-Car Entertainment


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 5th October 2008, 00:10   #286
Team-BHP Support
 
navin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: mumbai
Posts: 22,509
Thanked: 3,885 Times
Default

100Hz and 3kHz are a good place to start. Gunbir used to deal in Hertz maybe he knows more.
navin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th October 2008, 00:29   #287
BHPian
 
Gill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mohali
Posts: 699
Thanked: 12 Times
Default

Hope,Gunbir adds on something to the discussion,mean while navin ji even we reduce the harshness of tweeter somehow if possible by going active like changing the slops or reversing the phase or by any medium.
One thing more would it be safe to have tweeter playing down to 3khz?
Gill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th October 2008, 02:18   #288
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 2,462
Thanked: 20 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gill View Post
Navin,
I am also inclined for going active but i am not to able to find the info about the Freq range the tweet and mid can handle,On hertz site they have mentioned that full comp set range is 60hz to 23k but i doubt the midbass can go that low,mid bass would be happy around 80hz range
I was looking for Energy Crossover points in defualt crossover it comes with,but couldn't find any info.
Only concern are the drivers strong enough to handle the active system
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gill View Post
Hope,Gunbir adds on something to the discussion,mean while navin ji even we reduce the harshness of tweeter somehow if possible by going active like changing the slops or reversing the phase or by any medium.
One thing more would it be safe to have tweeter playing down to 3khz?
Hi Gill,

Don't bridge the amp to the components. There is no need for that much power. Especially since it will overpower your sub stage. Ideally, a power ratio of 1:2 (eg. 100w x 2 to fronts, 400w to sub) works for most people, some prefer 1:3. By that standard if you plan to have a 500w (250w x2) front stage, you will need to at least have a 1000w sub stage.

Here's what I suggest:

Option A: Semi Active. Run your HT18 tweets (with crossover) off your HU amp's rear channels and the midbass (with crossover) off the 75.4's front channels. By using fader, you can control the level of power going to the tweeters and blend them to your taste. This option leaves you the other two channels of your 75.4 to bridge and run the sub, as it is now.

Option B: Alternative to the above, you can run the tweets off the 75.4 (with the crossover) front channels, and the midbass (with crossover) off the 75.4's other two channels. Of course, you will need another amp for the sub.

Option C: Active. Akin to option B, except, discard the passive crossovers, set the 9887 to active and set the tweeter HPF at 5KHz, bandpass the midbass between 80Hz and 5KHz.

Again, in Active mode, you can also try running the tweets off the HU amp's front channels. Or off the 75.4, as discussed in above A & B options, only difference is passive crossovers are discarded and active used. The HT18 tweeters don't need a lot of power and I suspect you will find them sufficiently loud off the HU amp. So I suggest trying this first.

Let us know if you need any further help with this.

Cheers!
gunbir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th October 2008, 03:33   #289
BHPian
 
Gill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mohali
Posts: 699
Thanked: 12 Times
Default

Thanks for the Input Gunbir,I might be adding an amp for sub,shall be giving the IDQ around 500-600w.
So the JBL will be used to power the fronts only.
I woul like to use 9887 to run whole setup active.I want to see what difference does it make to run system active and what are the pros and cons of each(Passive and active),You solved my confusion about frequency cut offs,
Can tweeter play lower then 5K hz?
another small confusion with option b)How can the system be active with existing crossover of the comps
Gill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th October 2008, 03:47   #290
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 2,462
Thanked: 20 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gill View Post
Thanks for the Input Gunbir,I might be adding an amp for sub,shall be giving the IDQ around 500-600w.
Awesome. The iDQ15v2 will rock your world on 600w.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gill View Post
Can tweeter play lower then 5K hz?
another small confusion with option b)How can the system be active with existing crossover of the comps
Yes, you can run the tweet lower than 5KHz. It would be comfortable with anything over 3.5KHz. See the enclosed data for more details on the HT18 tweeter.

As I said, it's sort of semi-active, if you power (bi-amp) the tweets, mids separately and control the level of each driver separately. The passive crossovers still do the crossover function, so its not completely active. Of course if you have the amplification, by all means go active.

Cheers!
Attached Thumbnails
DIY SQ install: Gill's Swift-ht18_spez.gif  

gunbir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th October 2008, 03:59   #291
BHPian
 
Gill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mohali
Posts: 699
Thanked: 12 Times
Default

Thanks Gunbir for the data and input,surely made things easier for me,what all things need to take care off while running the system active,i mean small things that a novice like me might look over,i know one thing for sure,gains for tweeter has to set very carefully,
gotta go to bed now,will discuss rest later,

Cheers! and thanks again Gunbir
Gill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th October 2008, 10:41   #292
Senior - BHPian
 
hydrashok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: In my Office
Posts: 2,528
Thanked: 14 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunbir View Post
Option A: Semi Active. Run your HT18 tweets (with crossover) off your HU amp's rear channels and the midbass (with crossover) off the 75.4's front channels. By using fader, you can control the level of power going to the tweeters and blend them to your taste. This option leaves you the other two channels of your 75.4 to bridge and run the sub, as it is now.
This option sounds the best to me. The added advantage is that you can try this right now, without waiting for a mono amp.
hydrashok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th October 2008, 14:16   #293
BHPian
 
noidaboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Noida
Posts: 994
Thanked: 260 Times
Default

Quote:
shall be giving the IDQ around 500-600w.
Waiting for this to happen
noidaboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th October 2008, 23:55   #294
Team-BHP Support
 
navin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: mumbai
Posts: 22,509
Thanked: 3,885 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunbir View Post
Yes, you can run the tweet lower than 5KHz. It would be comfortable with anything over 3.5KHz.

As I said, it's sort of semi-active, if you power (bi-amp) the tweets, mids separately and control the level of each driver separately. The passive crossovers still do the crossover function, so its not completely active. Of course if you have the amplification, by all means go active.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunbir View Post
Option A: Semi Active. Run your HT18 tweets (with crossover) off your HU amp's rear channels and the midbass (with crossover) off the 75.4's front channels. By using fader, you can control the level of power going to the tweeters and blend them to your taste.
1. with an fs of 1500Hz 3k/12db is about the minimum XO the tweeter can live with.

2. I like option A as it keeps the tweeter's XO in circuit. seeing the tweeter's impedance curve I would guess that the XO has an impedance flattening circuit implemented in it and by removing this XO you will loose the benefit of this.
navin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th October 2008, 23:58   #295
Team-BHP Support
 
navin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: mumbai
Posts: 22,509
Thanked: 3,885 Times
Default

Gunbir,

this is a 4 ohm tweeter right? if you see the specs it is quoted as 91db/1W, later it is quoted as 91db/2.83V (which for a 4 ohm tweeter is 2W). What gives?
navin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th October 2008, 00:56   #296
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 2,462
Thanked: 20 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
I like option A as it keeps the tweeter's XO in circuit. seeing the tweeter's impedance curve I would guess that the XO has an impedance flattening circuit implemented in it and by removing this XO you will loose the benefit of this.
Exactly sir, in the whole trend of active, impedance correction usually gets overlooked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
this is a 4 ohm tweeter right? if you see the specs it is quoted as 91db/1W, later it is quoted as 91db/2.83V (which for a 4 ohm tweeter is 2W). What gives?
Hmm... Looks like a typo.
gunbir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th October 2008, 03:30   #297
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: India
Posts: 4,346
Thanked: 16 Times
Default

Gill, I 've got to salute you for your interest in DIY and the urge to try out new ways in your ICE. Keep it up!

The option A mentioned by Gunman seems a good point to start experimenting with. You don't have to change your setup much and can be done easily.
My suggestion to try that first and give us some feedback.
speedzak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th October 2008, 11:18   #298
Team-BHP Support
 
navin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: mumbai
Posts: 22,509
Thanked: 3,885 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunbir View Post
Exactly sir, in the whole trend of active, impedance correction usually gets overlooked.
not only impedance correction but also baffle step (for home audio) and baffle difraction. Ofcourse the simpler way is to implement these at line level (cheaper too since you need small components).
navin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th October 2008, 14:59   #299
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Faridabad
Posts: 6,814
Thanked: 294 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunbir View Post
Ideally, a power ratio of 1:2 (eg. 100w x 2 to fronts, 400w to sub) works for most people, some prefer 1:3. By that standard if you plan to have a 500w (250w x2) front stage, you will need to at least have a 1000w sub stage.
Hmm I would not take this as a ideal stuff. There can be lots of variations and it will depends on the equipment you are going to install. I have a 500 watts front and 2400 watts sub. ratio is 1:5

I have such a loud sub section because I love SPL. But it is not necessary that I will play it loud 100 % of the time. I tone it down to match it with the front stage.

Also using high rating amps with a speaker with lower RMS rating the main purpose is more headroom. The driver will play stress free without any clipping.
low_bass_makker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th October 2008, 23:40   #300
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 2,462
Thanked: 20 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by low_bass_makker View Post
Hmm I would not take this as a ideal stuff. There can be lots of variations
I don't know where there's a debate. I did not say its absolute, just an ideal that works for most people. I did not say all people.
gunbir is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rally School with Gaurav Gill - Bangalore speedmiester Indian Motorsport 31 2nd November 2010 19:33
Gaurav Gill wins the International Rally of Queensland speedmiester Int'l Motorsport 2 2nd August 2010 19:16
Gaurav Gill Wins APRC Rally of Indonesia!!! Manoj Biswas Indian Motorsport 12 26th April 2010 11:54
Gaurav Gill's Web Site c10 Indian Motorsport 0 3rd April 2010 11:26
Gaurav Gill to drive for MRF in APRC jerish666 Indian Motorsport 10 2nd March 2007 01:54


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 16:29.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks