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Old 16th September 2007, 11:49   #46
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Originally Posted by amit_sound View Post
Sorry blueraven could not understand this.....U saying to use a zx1500.1 with a single 15" L7 2ohms connected in parallel?

I am looking at two subs....

Also someone please answer my post #43 in detail....too a lot of time out on a SATURDAAY night and wrote it..
The L7 with dual 2ohms voice coils wired in series will give you 4 ohms for the amp to push power into. If you are putting 2 subs, get 2 4ohm subs and wire them in parallel to get 2ohms.

What Blueraven meant was that this arrangement is enough to beat the daylights out of your car and whoever is inside it when the music is playing. Safer since you will never exceed the amp nominal power (unless you are having a barbecue party with the amp as the grill).

Your post #43 says " So finally....can i settle in for a 15" L7 with the 1500.1 inside a ported box? (yes/no)": too many ideas to answer by yes/no, coupled with your " I am looking at two subs...." in this post.
1. Ported box - yes, ported box is effectively louder than a sealed one; that is, IF you want boomy bass - ported bass is less defined than sealed
2. NO, DON'T PUT both the sub and the amp inside the same box. Your amp will burn itself out
3. So are you buying 1 sub or 2?
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Old 16th September 2007, 12:26   #47
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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
3. So are you buying 1 sub or 2?
Kindly note that we are taking about 15" subs here

I am planning to get two L5 or L7. So again..will 1500.1 work good with two L7s. I know it will work perfectly with two L5s. Kicker website suggests that Yes, two L7s can be payed with a single zx1500.1 OR a zx2500.1

Toh kya karein...1500.1 looks a little underpowered at 2 ohms, but still kicker recemmonds it.

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Originally Posted by blueraven316 View Post
Congrats! he has to wire the subs in series , parallel to get a final 2 Ohm load.



And ask him to go easy on the gain, Kicker amps will always churn out more than rated, so he will be getting around 2700 to 3000 RMS actual out of that amp.
Also blueraven suggested that kicker amps usually drive a little more than wats on paper....So going a little harder withs the gains should help churn out 1800 rms at 2 ohms approx form this 1500.1 amp.....which fulfills the need of two L7 running at 2000 wattd rms at 2 ohms

Note: L5 will run at 1500 watts rms at 2 ohms with 1500.1 amp

DerAlte, point taken that ge two seperae boxes..

Last edited by amit_sound : 16th September 2007 at 12:30.
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Old 16th September 2007, 13:17   #48
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Originally Posted by amit_sound View Post
Kindly note that we are taking about 15" subs here

I am planning to get two L5 or L7. So again..will 1500.1 work good with two L7s. I know it will work perfectly with two L5s. Kicker website suggests that Yes, two L7s can be payed with a single zx1500.1 OR a zx2500.1

Toh kya karein...1500.1 looks a little underpowered at 2 ohms, but still kicker recemmonds it.



Also blueraven suggested that kicker amps usually drive a little more than wats on paper....So going a little harder withs the gains should help churn out 1800 rms at 2 ohms approx form this 1500.1 amp.....which fulfills the need of two L7 running at 2000 wattd rms at 2 ohms

Note: L5 will run at 1500 watts rms at 2 ohms with 1500.1 amp

DerAlte, point taken that ge two seperae boxes..
- Usually in ANY electrical or electronic amp+load situation, it is recommended that the load has a substantially more transient electrical power capability than the amp, so that the load doesn't get fried by the amp putting very high transient power that the load cannot handle. At your desired loudness levels, this will only be a flash and silence much before you detect overloading, unless the subs have higher transient power handling than your amp, NOT ONLY the steady state handling capacities
- Since transient handling is loosely coupled with the nominal rating, it is definitely wiser to select 2 subs with a total load handling HIGHER than the amp, not equal or lesser. Don't go by a=b as the simple rule, and don't go by amp rating only
- The loudness level produced by two L5 or L7 at the peak amp power is going to be BEYOND your ears' resolution capabilities in the car's interior. The only way you can figure out the difference would be to move 100 meters away - rather impractical. Actual absolute power requirements are difficult to relate to actual music.

The treatment would be definitely different if your actual objective is to achieve record dB levels measured by a dB meter. If that is what you want, PM @LBM - he is the master who is normally silent.
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Old 16th September 2007, 13:29   #49
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Originally Posted by amit_sound View Post
1) Two 15" L7 1000 rms at 2 ohms can be played with a single zx1500.1 amp.

2) Two 15" L5 750 rms at 2 ohms can be played with a single zx1500.1 amp

Now the L7 is rated at 1000 RMS @ 2 ohms and the L5 is rated at 750 rms at 2 ohms.

So u see confused!!
The subs are not rated at 1000 RMS @ 2 Ohms or anything, the max power handling on the sub is 1000 RMS. Now, there are two kinds of subs in both L7s and L5s, either they are dual 4 Ohms or Dual 2 Ohms. From a single sub wired in parallel Dual 2 Ohm coils will have a resulting impedance of 1 Ohm, dual 4 Ohms will be 2 Ohms. A single sub wired in series dual 2 Ohms will result to 4 Ohms and Dual 4 Ohms wired in series will be 8 Ohms.

The Ideal choice would be a pair of 15" L5s Dual 2 Ohms coils paired up with a ZX1500.1. OR if you want the setup to be a one time spending and need little more " dum " than the L5 setup and pump out all the power in that amp, then go in for the pair of 15" L7s again Dual 2 Ohms.


Quote:
Originally Posted by amit_sound View Post

So finally....can i settle in for a 15" L7 with the 1500.1 inside a ported box? (yes/no)
Now I am confused, you looking for a 1 sub setup or 2 subs ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
get 2 4ohm subs and wire them in parallel to get 2ohms.
The L7s are Dual 4 Ohms and if 2 of them are wired in parallel, then the resulting impedance will be 1 Ohm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
-
- The loudness level produced by two L5 or L7 at the peak amp power is going to be BEYOND your ears' resolution capabilities in the car's interior. The only way you can figure out the difference would be to move 100 meters away - rather impractical. Actual absolute power requirements are difficult to relate to actual music.

The treatment would be definitely different if your actual objective is to achieve record dB levels measured by a dB meter. If that is what you want, PM @LBM - he is the master who is normally silent.
LOL! True, that setup willl be maddening power. Especially on ported boxes L7s tend to churn out some crazy SPL. Especially in a swift, it will be crazy. Check with LBM on IDeas cos he would have heard some good SPL setups too and he has had some good SPL numbers in his car.
The one good thing about Kicker subs I have noticed out of numerous setups that the subs don't tend to buckle under higher gain levels, they sound strong and much stronger than any compettitor.
However I don't like the Kicker sound anymore as personally, its too loud and overshadows the speakers in the car, but yes, ITS A LOT OF BOOOM!

Last edited by blueraven316 : 16th September 2007 at 13:40.
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Old 16th September 2007, 14:21   #50
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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
1. Ported box - yes, ported box is effectively louder than a sealed one; that is, IF you want boomy bass - ported bass is less defined than sealed
Hmm...yes the ported will be louder and it will not defined if not made correctly other wise no need to worry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit_sound View Post
I am planning to get two L5 or L7. So again..will 1500.1 work good with two L7s. I know it will work perfectly with two L5s. Kicker website suggests that Yes, two L7s can be payed with a single zx1500.1 OR a zx2500.1

Toh kya karein...1500.1 looks a little underpowered at 2 ohms, but still kicker recemmonds it.
Also blueraven suggested that kicker amps usually drive a little more than wats on paper....So going a little harder withs the gains should help churn out 1800 rms at 2 ohms approx form this 1500.1 amp.....which fulfills the need of two L7 running at 2000 wattd rms at 2 ohms

Note: L5 will run at 1500 watts rms at 2 ohms with 1500.1 amp
Any amp you take 1500.1 or 2500.1 they will not produce there max untill the battery or the charging setup is able to give the juice to run it. Even I am running 1000 watts rms subs with a 1200 watts rms amp but one need to be careful with so much power. if played long without the electrical upgrade something is bound to get damage.

Installing this type of heavy equipment is a easy job, but knowing how to play it is the difficult task.
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Old 16th September 2007, 14:39   #51
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Originally Posted by low_bass_makker View Post

Even I am running 1000 watts rms subs with a 1200 watts rms amp but one need to be careful with so much power. if played long without the electrical upgrade something is bound to get damage.
But in this case you still have 200 watts rms still in stock for the subs na....or is it uulta ..i mean 1200 rms subs and 1000 watt rms amp? I my case with two L7 15" i run short 500 watts rms with a 1500.1


Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
The treatment would be definitely different if your actual objective is to achieve record dB levels measured by a dB meter. If that is what you want, PM @LBM - he is the master who is normally silent.
Hahaha look that this ...normally silent person usually the loudest.

LBM bhai!!! thanks for being here.......was just going to PM you about this confusion

I am considering a battery upgrade, 2 fard cap installation , 0 guage wires.......also if required i might even consider the alternator. So taking about juice...i'll make sure that amps and subs have all the juice/beer/burgers...wat ever they need to sound proper.

Amp is finalized i.e 1500.1 ...So aab bolaiyea LBM bahi....two L7 15" or two L5 15" in ported?

two L7 15" are 2000 watts RMS (I am not taking Peak output)
two L5 15" are 1500 watts RMS

Last edited by amit_sound : 16th September 2007 at 14:52.
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Old 16th September 2007, 15:12   #52
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Originally Posted by amit_sound View Post

Amp is finalized i.e 1500.1 ...So aab bolaiyea LBM bahi....two L7 15" or two L5 15" in ported?

two L7 15" are 2000 watts RMS (I am not taking Peak output)
two L5 15" are 1500 watts RMS
sir I think you are getting confused in the wattages. Higher wattage does not mean louder sound. Here sensitivity comes into play.

the L7 is having 89.4 db/1w/1m and the L5 is having 90.3 db/1w/1m then I would suggest to go for the L5 as it will be louder when compared with the above two.

And for how much you are getting the 1500.1 ?

Last edited by low_bass_makker : 16th September 2007 at 15:16.
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Old 16th September 2007, 15:30   #53
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zx1500.1 is worth 73,000 Rs
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Old 16th September 2007, 15:55   #54
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Originally Posted by amit_sound View Post
zx1500.1 is worth 73,000 Rs
Though not widely available, but some last years KX2500.1s are available online which are selling for cheaper than the current Zx1500.1 . You can probably evaluate that too, as even if you don't want to use the entire 2500 RMS, you can run the KX2500.1 @ 4 Ohms chruning out 1500 RMS which is very powerful too. The KX2500.1 is in no way inferior to the current ZX2500.1
Cheers.
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Old 16th September 2007, 17:07   #55
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Originally Posted by blueraven316 View Post
The L7s are Dual 4 Ohms and if 2 of them are wired in parallel, then the resulting impedance will be 1 Ohm.
Tchah, it is easier to handle kachcha papad pakka papad kachcha papad pakka papad kachcha papad pakka papad kachcha papad pakka papad ... I was reckoning with 2x4ohms-in-parallel, 2subs-in-series.

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Originally Posted by blueraven316 View Post
the subs don't tend to buckle under higher gain levels, they sound strong and much stronger than any compettitor.
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Originally Posted by blueraven316 View Post
you can run the KX2500.1 @ 4 Ohms chruning out 1500 RMS which is very powerful too
The subs won't, but what guarantee that the Swift body panels will? It is not even as sturdy as the M800 you showed.

Perhaps it is better that a few servo motors are wired in parallel to the subs, driving some strategic body panels out whenever a music passage exceeds a certain loudness, returning whenever the situation turns normal. That would be a brilliant usage of the excess power available, and turn it into a show car the way they do it in the US modded cars - ye le, toiing dicky moves out and returns, wo dekh boiing C-pillar thoda hila, dekh dekh bonnet kaisa naacha!!!
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Old 16th September 2007, 17:19   #56
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Originally Posted by amit_sound View Post
zx1500.1 is worth 73,000 Rs
for Rs 73,000/- that is mighty expensive for a 1500 watts rms amp.

I would any day suggest the Steg K2.03 which is 1750 watts rms and that to at 11 volts (kicker rate there stuff at 14.4 which will quite low at 11 volts) and is way cheaper than the Kicker also.
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Old 16th September 2007, 17:37   #57
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Originally Posted by low_bass_makker View Post
for Rs 73,000/- that is mighty expensive for a 1500 watts rms amp.
I would any day suggest the Steg K2.03 which is 1750 watts rms and that to at 11 volts (kicker rate there stuff at 14.4 which will quite low at 11 volts) and is way cheaper than the Kicker also.
Amit-bhai, bola tha na master will do some magic? His silence is golden - his words are worth like the rare earths.

@lbm-bhai, how much is the Steg?
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Old 16th September 2007, 17:41   #58
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Amit-bhai, bola tha na master will do some magic? His silence is golden - his words are worth like the rare earths.

@lbm-bhai, how much is the Steg?
Just Rs 65,000/- only.
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Old 16th September 2007, 18:22   #59
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Originally Posted by low_bass_makker View Post

the L7 is having 89.4 db/1w/1m and the L5 is having 90.3 db/1w/1m then I would suggest to go for the L5 as it will be louder when compared with the above two.
So wat does this sensitivity mean ?

Aacha....just curious about one thing.....with this L5 15" and 1500.1......am i reaching anyways close to the JBL eyeballer.. ...ya might sound stupid...but just getting curious..

As only the bass system of the eyeballer was driving two 800 watt RMS JBL 15" GTI subs..along with a crown amp.....are we reaching anywhere closer to it with L5s and 1500.1
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Old 16th September 2007, 18:59   #60
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Originally Posted by amit_sound View Post
Planning to settle in for a new zx1500.1 mono amp. (Kicker)
It chruns out 1500x1 rms @ 2 ohms
and 750 x 1 rms @ 4 ohms.
1) Two 15" L7 1000 rms at 2 ohms can be played with a single zx1500.1 amp.

2) Two 15" L5 750 rms at 2 ohms can be played with a single zx1500.1 amp

Now the L7 is rated at 1000 RMS @ 2 ohms and the L5 is rated at 750 rms at 2 ohms.

So u see confused!!

So finally....can i settle in for a 15" L7 with the 1500.1 inside a ported box? (yes/no)
Quote:
Originally Posted by amit_sound View Post
Sorry blueraven could not understand this.....U saying to use a zx1500.1 with a single 15" L7 2ohms connected in parallel?

I am looking at two subs....

Also someone please answer my post #43 in detail....too a lot of time out on a SATURDAAY night and wrote it..
My contention has always been that too much attention is give to THERMAL ratings (read as WATTS) instead of stuff like Bl, Xmax, Mms, etc. Most woofers are more limited by these specs than by their thermal ratings.

As an experiment try this: take you favourite woofer (in a box or IB) and favourite big amplifer (it can be car audio or home audio). Now use a signal generator as a signal source (it does not need to be accurate).

Now set the signal generator to produce 200Hz sine wave, set the gains of the amp so you get about 14V p-p out from the amp and sweep from 200hz towards 20Hz. you will ntoice that as you get to about 40Hz many woofers will start to flutter make all sorts of non musical noises etc..

The other point one must realise that all these high RMS woofers have limited use (usually just the lowest 2 octaves or so). Big power voice coils are by nessicity heavy (thick wire). This means that the compliance of the system needs to be stiff. Now pushing such a system to low frequencies means that you get a heavy cone. By now you might get the notion that atleast I am not happy with the music these woofers produce.

I want to feel the slap of Stanley Clarke double bass, I want to know if the guitar used was an acoustic or electric, I want to hear the timber of a kettle drum, when a guitarist slides his/her fingers on the strings I want to hear the buzz of the steel string or the ummmmmm of the nylon string (I am talking bass guitar only). Most speakers I have heard make me feel that I am asking for too much.

Last edited by navin : 16th September 2007 at 19:02.
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