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Old 16th September 2007, 09:14   #1
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Default How to get good sound in a Skoda?

Hi guys,

Most probably buying a Laura today [used]. The sound I hear is not so good and I might want to upgrade the speakers.

The rear deck is a lifting type and looks pretty flimsy so what do I do for speaker mounting? AFAIK in door speakers can never give enough bass? I also dont want to use up luggage space for a sub etc.

Any suggestions?

I saw this post where he has mounted speakers in the lifting deck. Is the deck solid enough to take it without vibrating?

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/sound-...tall-pics.html

My knowledge about ICE is ZERO so any help will be much appreciated.
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Old 16th September 2007, 09:47   #2
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The parcel shelf will have to be replaced with an MDF one. Even then there will be some rattle as it will be or large size and will flex with the speakers weight. Also, the shelf will not be removable when you open the boot. A better option is to have all the door speakers and go for a sub in the boot.

The laura has a big boot and when you think teh sub is taking away room you can disconnect it and keep it at home.
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Old 16th September 2007, 10:37   #3
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The Laura is a solid car. Speaker mounted in the door of the laura and even octavia sound surprisingly good.
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Old 16th September 2007, 10:54   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kumar2007 View Post
I saw this post where he has mounted speakers in the lifting deck. Is the deck solid enough to take it without vibrating?

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/sound-...tall-pics.html

My knowledge about ICE is ZERO so any help will be much appreciated.
Well that pic was put there as an indication of what NOT to do. Please avoid using the parcel shelf to install speakers, and use the stock locations instead.
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Old 16th September 2007, 11:00   #5
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If you arent satisfied with the volume , then let me enlighten you that , In the laura , as the speed increases the volume increases too , and as far as BASS is concerned the components on each door give a great effect . I geuss 12 speakers are enough , i am seriously surprised seing you unsatisfied with the ICE .
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Old 16th September 2007, 11:06   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karan561 View Post
If you arent satisfied with the volume , then let me enlighten you that , In the laura , as the speed increases the volume increases too , and as far as BASS is concerned the components on each door give a great effect . I geuss 12 speakers are enough , i am seriously surprised seing you unsatisfied with the ICE .

Volume is directly proportional to speed? this is kinda unheard in Laura Ads.

12 speakers? when did he say that?
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Old 16th September 2007, 11:10   #7
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Navin has a Skoda (Octavia, I guess) so he is very familiar with the nooks and crannies. You can check out pics of his setup - search the forum for "pink protruberance" (OK, OK, no funnies please, @iraghava, that was a mnemonic I remembered from my posts). One of the best uses of space I have seen. His stuff cannot be easily replicated, but the space usage definitely can be - Skodas don't vary much.

You have not mentioned a budget, so can one assume that you don't have a limit?

There is no reason why door mounted speakers cannot give good bass (mid-bass, really, since a sub handles the really low stuff). And for the front, there is no alternative in large cars (smaller cars have a dash mount option). Go for good components in front: Infinity, Illusion, Hertz, JBL, Blaupunkt, ... wide range of makes an models an prices. Audition them and select based on what you prefer, since their sounds differ (though all of them are good).

You can always replace the deck with a 1" MDF plank covered with automotive grey carpet, and that will not be flimsy at all. This would be good enough for 6x9 oval coaxials (good low end thump, but not the same as subs) or 6.5" components / coax (even 8" at a pinch).

Alternatively, you could have the "flimsy" parcel shelf stiffened with fiber glass on the underside, and damped with sound damping. That would give you very decent results instead of the MDF.

Mounting a sub-woofer on the parcel shelf is not ideal, since this IB (Infinite Baffle) arrangement does not produced well defined bass. For that, a sealed box is ideal for SQ - check out the way Navin has mounted a fiber glass box in a normally unused space. Use a 12" IDQ (Image Dynamics) sub in such a box - it needs very less box volume. Navin has an Infinity sub.

Of course, everything is relative to your choice of music, and there is no "one size fits all" concept in ICE. Trust your own ears for making the right choice.

The best would be to go step by step, feeling comfortable with what you get, and knowing what more you need, along the way:
1. Put in sound damping / deadening, and check if the stock system is still lacking for you
2. Change the stock speakers to good components, check if the HU power is insufficient for you
3. Add amp(s) and sub if you need more
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Old 16th September 2007, 11:19   #8
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The Laura is indeed a good car to ICE. Solid body panels. You won't need to spend much on damping. And it has stock provision for 3-way comps in the front door, if you want to do that. I'm sure you'll get good results from midbasses installed in the stock locations in the doors.

Better avoid the parcel tray for any kind of speakers. A sub there is a definite no-no. Unless you haul a lot of stuff on a daily basis, you'll be able to sacrifice about 1.5 cu-ft of space for a sub-box in the boot, won't you?

What's your budget? Do you plan to keep the stock Head Unit (HU), or upgrade the HU too?

Like DerAlte said, maybe you can start by upgrading the stock speakers. Good pairs of 2-way comps in front and coaxials in the back should keep your Stage 1 expenditure in the 12K to 15K range. You'll need to think of the rest (Amp + Sub, HU Upgrade etc) only if you're not satisfied with the results.
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Old 16th September 2007, 11:24   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panky12345 View Post
Volume is directly proportional to speed? this is kinda unheard in Laura Ads
VW (and Audi / Skoda / SEAT etc.) specs for mid-range cars onwards. Their stock ICE vendors have to comply with that. There is a vehicle speed signal given from the engine / transmission ECU which gives wheel RPM (vehicle speed, assuming that the tyres are touching the ground), which the HU is supposed to use for adjusting volume proportional to vehicle speed. Can be analog (smoothly proportional) or binary (e.g. above a certain speed), and is implemented as a %change on the set volume.
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Old 16th September 2007, 14:57   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
VW (and Audi / Skoda / SEAT etc.) specs for mid-range cars onwards. Their stock ICE vendors have to comply with that. There is a vehicle speed signal given from the engine / transmission ECU which gives wheel RPM (vehicle speed, assuming that the tyres are touching the ground), which the HU is supposed to use for adjusting volume proportional to vehicle speed. Can be analog (smoothly proportional) or binary (e.g. above a certain speed), and is implemented as a %change on the set volume.
Thanks @ DerAlte , u saved my time , otherwise i would have to explain all of that to panky12345.
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Old 17th September 2007, 11:37   #11
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WOW! This is something that I've learnt today....Thanks!
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Old 17th September 2007, 12:27   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
There is no reason why door mounted speakers cannot give good bass..Go for good components in front: Infinity, Illusion, Hertz, JBL, Blaupunkt, ...

You can always replace the deck with a 1" MDF plank covered with automotive grey carpet, and that will not be flimsy at all. This would be good enough for 6x9 oval coaxials (good low end thump, but not the same as subs) or 6.5" components / coax (even 8" at a pinch).

Alternatively, you could have the "flimsy" parcel shelf stiffened with fiber glass on the underside, and damped with sound damping. That would give you very decent results instead of the MDF.

For that, a sealed box is ideal for SQ - check out the way Navin has mounted a fiber glass box in a normally unused space. Use a 12" IDQ (Image Dynamics) sub in such a box - it needs very less box volume. Navin has an Infinity sub.

The best would be to go step by step, feeling comfortable with what you get, and knowing what more you need, along the way:
1. Put in sound damping / deadening, and check if the stock system is still lacking for you
2. Change the stock speakers to good components, check if the HU power is insufficient for you
3. Add amp(s) and sub if you need more
1. Do not, I repeat DO NOT mess with the rear deck. The existing rear deck is flimsy but well made. If you notice it is deigned to be clamped when the hatch is shut and will not vibrate much. If you use a MDF deck you can design it to do the same but the hydralics will not be able to lift the weight of such a deck. If you stiffen the MDF deck with FRP (resin bonded fiberglass) it will also be quite heavy esp. after you install speakers on it). You would need atleast 6mm of FRP to make the deck stiff enough.

2. The Skoda has well built doors and body panels but they still could use damping. I would damp the sides of the trunk, the 4 doors and the firewall. You will need about 10 sheets of American Dynamics for that. I used 8 sheets of AD and 2 sheets of Dynamat Extreme. If the Skoda needs 8-10 sheets think how much one needs for a Honda City (that tin box is smaller but needs as much if not more damping that the Octy/Laura).

3. If you can afford 3 way speakers in the front by all means get them. The Laura was made for 3 way. My Octy was not. Illusion (Bass and Trouble), Hertz (Gunbir), DLS (Low Bass Makker - ok he does not represent them but he has them) all make very good 3 way speakers.

4. Any good component system (esp 3 way) will demand a good amplifier. You can choose from Infintiy, Audison, Tru Tech or Steg (LBM's favourite amp).

5. An ID sub will do very well on the left hand side of the Laura. The cavity should be about 1 cu. ft. It was a bit small for the Infintiy I had around so I had to go aperiodic (the other choice was push-pull Isobarik but there was not enough room for that either).

6. The most diffcult part of the Octy (I dont know if it is the same for the Laura) was providing a sound stage for the rear. The rear pods accomodate only 12-13cm woofers. So you have choose them carefully. Few 12-13cm woofer can produce good SPLs at 80Hz. I found a work around by using 2 (slightly modified) 6.5" bass tubes for the mid bass (80-200Hz). The rear deck is a natual acoustic filter so the 6.5" woofers midrange is attenuated and hence the midrange of the 12-13cm speakers (in the stock pods) is left undisturbed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hydrashok View Post
The Laura is indeed a good car to ICE. Solid body panels. You won't need to spend much on damping.

Better avoid the parcel tray for any kind of speakers. A sub there is a definite no-no.
All cars need some damping. My Octy's ICE was built around having enough room to still carry 3 26-30" bags, 1 in-flight roll-on roll-off bag, and a few smaller bags.

Quote:
Originally Posted by panky12345 View Post
WOW! This is something that I've learnt today....Thanks!
It's been around for a while panky.
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Old 29th October 2007, 13:13   #13
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Default Octavia Rs

Hi Navin,
Got an Octavia RS recently. I`m planning to keep the stock HU and speakers and put in an amp and a woofer. I have a sony 222 amp and a 12inch woofer with me.

I know its pretty basic, but what do you say?

Also should the woofer be in that triangular box sort of thing? And should it point towards the boot or towards the rear seats?

Can I run both the stock speakers and the woofers from that amp?

I like tight bass and listen to all sorts of stuff.

Also what is damping and what does it do?

Thanks

Cheers

Deval


Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
1. Do not, I repeat DO NOT mess with the rear deck. The existing rear deck is flimsy but well made. If you notice it is deigned to be clamped when the hatch is shut and will not vibrate much. If you use a MDF deck you can design it to do the same but the hydralics will not be able to lift the weight of such a deck. If you stiffen the MDF deck with FRP (resin bonded fiberglass) it will also be quite heavy esp. after you install speakers on it). You would need atleast 6mm of FRP to make the deck stiff enough.

2. The Skoda has well built doors and body panels but they still could use damping. I would damp the sides of the trunk, the 4 doors and the firewall. You will need about 10 sheets of American Dynamics for that. I used 8 sheets of AD and 2 sheets of Dynamat Extreme. If the Skoda needs 8-10 sheets think how much one needs for a Honda City (that tin box is smaller but needs as much if not more damping that the Octy/Laura).

3. If you can afford 3 way speakers in the front by all means get them. The Laura was made for 3 way. My Octy was not. Illusion (Bass and Trouble), Hertz (Gunbir), DLS (Low Bass Makker - ok he does not represent them but he has them) all make very good 3 way speakers.

4. Any good component system (esp 3 way) will demand a good amplifier. You can choose from Infintiy, Audison, Tru Tech or Steg (LBM's favourite amp).

5. An ID sub will do very well on the left hand side of the Laura. The cavity should be about 1 cu. ft. It was a bit small for the Infintiy I had around so I had to go aperiodic (the other choice was push-pull Isobarik but there was not enough room for that either).

6. The most diffcult part of the Octy (I dont know if it is the same for the Laura) was providing a sound stage for the rear. The rear pods accomodate only 12-13cm woofers. So you have choose them carefully. Few 12-13cm woofer can produce good SPLs at 80Hz. I found a work around by using 2 (slightly modified) 6.5" bass tubes for the mid bass (80-200Hz). The rear deck is a natual acoustic filter so the 6.5" woofers midrange is attenuated and hence the midrange of the 12-13cm speakers (in the stock pods) is left undisturbed.



All cars need some damping. My Octy's ICE was built around having enough room to still carry 3 26-30" bags, 1 in-flight roll-on roll-off bag, and a few smaller bags.



It's been around for a while panky.
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Old 29th October 2007, 20:01   #14
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To get good bass either for spl or sq having a subwoofer is a must. the size of the skoda's boot is quite big. you can have a sub(or 2) on the side of the boot without affecting the boot space much. the link below shows you one of the ways how you can place it.
http://home.twcny.rr.com/eeibooks/ro...cosubsrear.jpg
Once the sub(s) is done then you can very well go for a good components in the front and coaxials at the rear without altering anything in the car
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Old 26th July 2008, 13:09   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
VW (and Audi / Skoda / SEAT etc.) specs for mid-range cars onwards. Their stock ICE vendors have to comply with that. There is a vehicle speed signal given from the engine / transmission ECU which gives wheel RPM (vehicle speed, assuming that the tyres are touching the ground), which the HU is supposed to use for adjusting volume proportional to vehicle speed. Can be analog (smoothly proportional) or binary (e.g. above a certain speed), and is implemented as a %change on the set volume.
This is applicable with my Optra also. I still dont know whether it is the HU or the Car itself which manages such a thing. But this can be painful at times, as in when you are at a red light and there is a good number playing and you turn up the volume and the moment you cross 50 KMPH the volume goes up and then again you have to turn it down....
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