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Old 26th September 2007, 19:50   #16
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Originally Posted by panky12345 View Post
thats exactly why it is recommended to have an UNBIASED audition before you buy
So true Panky, so true. In the end it's my fault, as I bought it without listening to it. My friend bought it from BBW just for me and he had to pay them before he got the delivery of sub to his shop. Normally, he can pay the distributors with whom he has a good rapport a few days later so he gives me 1 day to try the stuff before I commit. However, with Hertz he had to pay upfront as BBW were making their first deal with him.
So, basically, once he bought it I had to take it. But still, nothing bad.
I am pretty happy with the setup, to be honest with you.
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Old 26th September 2007, 21:23   #17
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Originally Posted by akg7091 View Post
@ Gunbir : The box I am using is a bassworx sw12b ( sealed ) which has a volume of 1 cuft. This is the volume recommended on the Hertz site for the ES300D ( 28 l)

The sub is very nice, and is definitely better than the pio ( NO DOUBTS ! ) but I feel it was not worth thrice the price ( maybe I am wrong, but audio is subjective )
Also, again I may be wrong, but the sub does not seem to have a sensitivity of 97db/spl as claimed because the pio is 89 db/spl and and so this sub should have been 4 times louder atleast but it is almost the same. Maybe hertz measures it in a different way, but there is no way this sub is 4 times louder ( not even twice )

However, I have noticed that this sub is better than the pio, in the sense that I can feel the bass but it is not obtrusive ( hard to explain in words )

Finally, let me sum it all up

Reasons I didn't like the sub :

No way is it louder than the pio even though the difference in sensitivity is HUGE
Considering the fact that the pio costs 3000 and this 9000, I felt it was overpriced for it's performance ( again, just my opinion )

I am in no way dissatisfied as I don't like boomy, too much bass and this sub will do just fine. I only felt I spent more money than required.
This sub is definitely not bad, and as Gunbir said, maybe it's just the box. I will get the box changed when I get the time. Till then this is going to be just fine.

@ deralte : I played a test tone of 50 hz on the HU. Turned off all the eq settings etc. Turned up the volume to 75% on the HU and then increased the gain on the amplifier till the voltage across the output was 25 volts
AKG,

First you have to make up your mind that what kind of bass you want in your car. It is not necessary for a good / expensive subwoofer to play loud. We have subwoofers which costs more than thrice the cost of ES300D and they will not play louder than the ES Sub.

Subwoofers are divided in two categories, SQ and SPL. There are some subwoofers which does bit of both they are called SQL subwoofers like Image Dynamics IDMAX. At any point you cannot compare a SQ oriented sub with SPL oriented sub. Irrespective of the sensitivity figures and power given the two subs will never sound the same in terms of tonality and loudness.

If sensitivity figures would have been affecting so much in loudness output then everyone competing in SPL competitions would have been going for the most sensitive subwoofers available, instead of putting huge number of expensive monoblocks pumping kilowatts of power in numerous insensitive subwoofers.

If you don't like boomy bass and you crave for musical bass then I would say there are very few subwoofers available in the market which does that and Hertz ES Series is one of them and Pioneer is no where close. All the other good SQ subwoofers are similarly priced.
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Old 26th September 2007, 21:31   #18
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I think the 6k difference in prices of Pioneer vs Hertz is basically because the pioneer is a grey import while the Hertz is a official import.
Here,Im assuming this with the Hertz Sub.
But, Im pretty damn sure that a Pio can cost 3k only in the grey market.
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Old 26th September 2007, 21:46   #19
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Sometimes, There is difference in reality and expectation, this differnce causes all the bad things..

but this sub is fantastic,always in control,i have heared alot of sony,pio and kenwood subs and even JBL too,but all of them are most of time loose, no doubt they are loud.This(Hertz) sub makes u hear different type of bass,where as other(Mentioned Above)subs makes out a single note.
Probably you were expecting something else,but these subs are good,with out a thought!!
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Old 26th September 2007, 22:17   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gill View Post
but this sub is fantastic,always in control,i have heared alot of sony,pio and kenwood subs and even JBL too,but all of them are most of time loose, no doubt they are loud.This(Hertz) sub makes u hear different type of bass,where as other(Mentioned Above)subs makes out a single note.
Probably you were expecting something else,but these subs are good,with out a thought!!
x 2!
...............
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Old 26th September 2007, 22:58   #21
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I agree to all the posts above. I never said the sub is bad ( did I ?)
I just said that maybe for me it wasn't the right choice. But it is indeed a very good sub, and I can't say that enough. Just that I feel that the money spent did not justify the difference ( just my personal opinion again )

We all learn by experimenting and by asking the more knowledgable people around. I knew when I bought the sub that it is not a "one note" wonder. However, looking at the sensitivity figures I EXPECTED it to be louder ( come on, it's rated at 97 db, that's huge )
It didn't meet the expectation in that department and that is why I felt like I should have gone with a pio.

Again, the purpose of my earlier post was to give a review of the sub based on my opinion and what I truly felt of the purchase. It was in no way meant to be A v/s B because both these subs are vastly different from each other.
Infact, once I am done with the exams I intend to go over to JB sirji's shop if he has one and get his advice on tuning the entire setup so that everything is in perfect balance.
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Old 27th September 2007, 00:23   #22
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AKG, you are entitled to your opinion and we respect that. But this may help you in the future....

Quote:
Originally Posted by akg7091 View Post
Just that I feel that the money spent did not justify the difference ( just my personal opinion again )
Would you say the same thing of a 1 crore Porsche that does 0-100 in 3 seconds compared to a 9 lakh Corolla that does 0-100 in 9 seconds. Is the extra 9 million spent worth the 6 seconds saved. Well NO. Not if you are ONLY looking at a spec. If you are looking at the overall experience of owning and driving the Porsche, there is no comparison.

It may also help to read up on this. Law of Diminishing Returns

Cheers!
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Old 27th September 2007, 00:55   #23
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@ Gunbir :
The comparison is not just. Even if I compare the specs, there is something amiss. Pio 306dvc is rated at 89db/spl wheres the hertz is rated at 97 db/spl.
Now, I have said this many times that the hertz sub is good. Now, we all know that a 3db gain in spl should theoretically double the sound output per watt. In this case it is an 8 db difference, but the spl for both subs is almost same when fed with the same amount of power. This makes me feel that maybe hertz is misleading it's customers by publishing sensitivity figures measured in some other way.
I don't claim any knowledge of this, but this is how I feel and I am most certain I will be proven wrong.
I have clearly said the sub was good, but I have also been clear why I am not satisfied.
In your example, you bought a porsche which claims to do 0-100 in 3 sec. However, if it does 0-100 in 5 sec it is still a good car right? But the owner might feel short changed if he learns of this even if it doesn't make any difference in the ownership experience because he will rarely use it to max capacity. However in subs, the spl rating is very important as that gives a basic idea about the efficiency of the driver.

I just want to say that I have honestly posted what I felt of the purchase. I No more, no less.
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Old 27th September 2007, 10:47   #24
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Originally Posted by akg7091 View Post
Now, we all know that a 3db gain in spl should theoretically double the sound output per watt. In this case it is an 8 db difference, but the spl for both subs is almost same when fed with the same amount of power. This makes me feel that maybe hertz is misleading it's customers by publishing sensitivity figures measured in some other way.
I don't claim any knowledge of this, but this is how I feel and I am most certain I will be proven wrong.
to you AKG on this. The sensitivity part is always changed by the manufacture. I agree that the method by which the manufacture measure the specs can be different. But if we measure at 1 watt and 1 meter will be same for all the manufacture because we cannot change 1 watt and 1 meter as they are standard units.

AKG I would also say that you bought the sub in a hurry. As discussed on this forum twice before on the sensitivity part. You must have waited and auditioned before buying the same.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/ask-gu...a-civic-7.html
read on from post 98

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/produc...v-3-sub-2.html
read on from post 18

Chalo now if you bought the sub enjoy it..And I have a pair of IDMAX in my car if you wanna feel the bass we can meet up for the same.
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Old 27th September 2007, 10:58   #25
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Originally Posted by low_bass_makker View Post
if you wanna feel the bass we can meet up for the same.


@akg

dont go to chechout LBM's setup,he will make you sit on the rear sit by luring you for Butter Chicken and he will play his system at full throttle

and he will lock you and go out of car and i'm sure you will feel like breaking the windows and getting out of car.i can imagine that
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Old 27th September 2007, 11:05   #26
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Originally Posted by simply_sunny001 View Post
@akg

dont go to chechout LBM's setup,he will make you sit on the rear sit by luring you for Butter Chicken and he will play his system at full throttle

and he will lock you and go out of car and i'm sure you will feel like breaking the windows and getting out of car.i can imagine that
Ahhhhhhhhhh, but sunny, I am a vegetarian. So I will be saved from LBM's nefarious intentions.

Anyways, Gunbir ji has offered me a refund for the sub. This clearly shows how much BBW value customer satisfaction I intend NOT to take it.
Gunbir ji, The sub is very good. I intend to use it because it was my decision to buy it. I stated the reason I didn't like it.
However, sir, you will have to tune it for me
Let me be done with my mba exams, then I will contact you and you can check if the box is right or not.

Thanks everyone.
And thanks Gunbir ji.
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Old 27th September 2007, 11:59   #27
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Originally Posted by Autophile View Post
AKG,


Subwoofers are divided in two categories, SQ and SPL.
Any info on what exactly SQ and SPL is?
Thanks,
Anshu
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Old 27th September 2007, 12:25   #28
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ok here u go Anshu

SPL = Sound pressure level
SQ = Sound quality

hope u understand now
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Old 27th September 2007, 12:37   #29
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Originally Posted by simply_sunny001 View Post
ok here u go Anshu

SPL = Sound pressure level
SQ = Sound quality

hope u understand now
Thanks Sunny, Yes makes more sense to me now.
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Old 27th September 2007, 13:07   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akg7091 View Post
@ Gunbir : The box I am using is a bassworx sw12b ( sealed ) which has a volume of 1 cuft. This is the volume recommended on the Hertz site for the ES300D ( 28 l)
did you compare the ES300 with other subs in it's price range? In fact if you get the chance compare the ES300 with the ID12.

audio is not linear. 3 times to money wont get you 3 times better sound (even if you could define "better").
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