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Old 27th September 2007, 18:45   #31
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Navin ji, it's not the price that bothers me. It is the fact that it was rated at 97 db/spl while it is clearly not that sensitive. Feeding 300 watts to such a sub should be more than enough and it should have been much louder than the pio ( 89 db/spl ) but it was almost the same, just a little tight.
I did not say it was bad, I just felt it was hyped more than required
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Old 27th September 2007, 22:12   #32
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I did not say it was bad, I just felt it was hyped more than required
Exacchhtely!! It was overhyped (for you!)
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Old 27th September 2007, 22:52   #33
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Exacchhtely!! It was overhyped (for you!)
What do you mean to say panky sir ? I must admit I am confused by your wording.
It was overhyped just for me ? You mean it was somehow my fault they published misleading figures ?
If the company is as good as it is made out to be on this forum then it should not resort to such marketing tactics. Even Gunbir ji said in his pm to me that for the new line of Energy subs, Hertz is going to measure sensitivity in the way other companies measure it. This statement is more than enough to justify my point. Also, as per some of the other posts on this forum the figures published by hertz were wrong. ( just search for ES300D and you will find all the posts )
I know this forum has a strong Hertz following but it doesn't mean I shouldn't post what I truly feel. If I am wrong, then I am open to learning. I only said, considering it is 97 db/spl it should have been MUCH louder. Was I wrong theoretically ?
I only gave a review of my experience. I will stop now, as this thread is going to serve no purpose.
The purpose of my posts was not to dissuade people from purchasing hertz, nor was I promoting pioneer. If you look at my posts in other threads, I have always recommended the hertz components even though I don't own them ( but a friend does and I have heard them often ) so I am not writing this review just to bash a brand.
Sometimes, it's very hard to get a point across when you are writing messages on a forum. I hope everyone tries to understand what i truly mean.
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Old 28th September 2007, 10:58   #34
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What do you mean to say panky sir ? ... I hope everyone tries to understand what i truly mean.
Relax, ak-ji, there is nothing wrong in what you have been writing. It is just that there is always more to speakers and sound reproduction than specs written by manufacturers.

Panky-bhai, aap bhi khamakha ...

Last edited by DerAlte : 28th September 2007 at 11:00.
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Old 28th September 2007, 11:19   #35
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Deralte sir, there is no friction between me and pranky bhai. Just a misunderstanding, not much. And I agree with you, there is always more to sound than specs, but still, the specs should be correct and not false
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Old 28th September 2007, 13:22   #36
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the sensitivity of a speaker (or subwoofer) depends on the baffle/box the sub is mounted on, the room and relative placement it is measure at, and the intruments/electronics used to make the measurement. Now this is a vague term and hence I would take care to use sensitivity measurements to compare drivers only from the SAME manufacturer (in the same era).
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Old 28th September 2007, 13:54   #37
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Originally Posted by navin View Post
the sensitivity of a speaker (or subwoofer) depends on the baffle/box the sub is mounted on, the room and relative placement it is measure at, and the intruments/electronics used to make the measurement. Now this is a vague term and hence I would take care to use sensitivity measurements to compare drivers only from the SAME manufacturer (in the same era).
Navin Ji I agree to all the above terms. But if we discuss about the same sub we have in question does it have 97 db 1w/1m sentivity ?
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Old 28th September 2007, 14:30   #38
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Navin Ji I agree to all the above terms. But if we discuss about the same sub we have in question does it have 97 db 1w/1m sentivity ?
NO. Gunbir ji already told me via m that Hertz measures their sensitivity in some "other" way. He did not mention how. Also, he has stated that for the new series Hertz has decided to measure sensitivity at 2.83v/m

This is more than enough to justify my stand.
Also, I am using a box of the EXACT dimensions as specified by hertz. It is a bassworx box and is completely machine made, so no chance of it being leaky.
Also, the sub is sounding good, not loose which implies the box is properly sealed.

I think we should let this thread be closed by a mod. Many in this community will be offended by my posts as I have not liked a product which has a fan base here. My intentions were not to offend anyone, but to tell you the truth.
Hertz measures their sensitivity in some "other" way known only to themselves and as they are not following the industry standards, I can only term it as false marketing.
I have no arguments with anyone here, especially not with anyone represeting Hertz Audio. As I stated above, Gunbir ji was gracious enough to offer me a full refund. However, it is not so much about the money.

Anyways, thanks to all who posted their thoughts regarding this. Thanks to LBM sir for posting the links.
Also, to anyone interested to find out more, search for ES300D on this forum. You can find out what I mean when I say they publish incorrect specs. Gunbir ji avoided the posts in the other threads by not posting an answer to them there.

Bye and take care all
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Old 28th September 2007, 16:15   #39
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Originally Posted by akg7091 View Post
NO. Gunbir ji already told me via m that Hertz measures their sensitivity in some "other" way. He did not mention how. Also, he has stated that for the new series Hertz has decided to measure sensitivity at 2.83v/m
AKG, I avoided those posts as there is no point arguing over this.

Sometimes manufacturers do things for reasons best known to them. Infinity has a midbass that it specs 2ohms, but it measures closer to 4ohms. Why would they do that? Like I said, sometimes manufacturers screw up... Or so it would seem.
  • Does it sound good? By your own admission, Yes.
  • Is there some discrepancy in the way they measure sensitivity for this product. Yes.
  • Do I know exactly how they measured it. No.
  • Does HERTZ intend cheating anyone. No.
  • Have we taken this up with the company. Yes.
  • Have they fixed the issue (if it can be called one) in the new products. Yes.
  • Is it a bad product. No.
As I wrote to you in the PM, I believe you are right in your stand and I thats why I offered you a refund. That said, I believe that its a good sounding product (best in its class in fact) thats built well and you get good support and warranty here. End of the day its about the sound. If you are happy with that, then enjoy.

And a tune up by me is your right as a TBHPian, just call and drop by.

Cheers!

Last edited by gunbir : 28th September 2007 at 16:21.
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Old 28th September 2007, 16:32   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akg7091 View Post
Hertz has decided to measure sensitivity at 2.83v/m

Also, I am using a box of the EXACT dimensions as specified by hertz.

I think we should let this thread be closed by a mod. Many in this community will be offended by my posts as I have not liked a product which has a fan base here.
1. if Hertz uses 2.83V for a 4ohm woofer it means that they are putting 2W into it. That would mean that the sensitivity at 1W is 3db lower.

2. I dont think Hertz uses a sealed box when it measures sensitivity. THey might have used an IB install for that measurement. That would explain the difference you are hearing.

3. An honest opinion is welcome here. I dont think anyone (Gunbir included) would feel offended by an honest opinion. I dont see anything wrong with your above post either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunbir View Post
Sometimes manufacturers do things for reasons best known to them. Infinity has a midbass that it specs 2ohms, but it measures closer to 4ohms. Why would they do that?
And a tune up by me is your right as a TBHPian, just call and drop by. !
correction: the midbass measures almost 3ohms (nominal). :-) but yes why would they do that? I have argued this case (on this forum) before and lets just say that both parties are right in their own way. I am just a old man whose audio beliefs are conservative.

Wow first Sam gets us discounts and now free tuneups! Being a TBHPian DOES have it's privileges!
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Old 28th September 2007, 18:31   #41
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Wow first Sam gets us discounts and now free tuneups! Being a TBHPian DOES have it's privileges!
yeah! not only discounts, i even got a JBL product gifted to me by SAM.

and now its gunbir's turn!

@deralte phaaji....mis-under-standing cleared between akg and me over the PM. I stated my point and he agreed.
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Old 28th September 2007, 18:47   #42
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I agree with gunbir whole heartedly. It is a nice sounding sub, no doubts.
My doubts have been cleared now.
Thanks everyone for the posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by panky12345 View Post
yeah! not only discounts, i even got a JBL product gifted to me by SAM.

and now its gunbir's turn!
How about it Gunbir ? Any discount on future purchases for Bhpians?

Last edited by akg7091 : 28th September 2007 at 18:48.
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Old 28th September 2007, 18:50   #43
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discounts...huh! read carefully! am talking about FOCs sir! ;-)
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Old 28th September 2007, 19:50   #44
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come on panky !!!!!!!!! FOC for hertz would be too much as most of their stuff costs over 5k
Discounts would be nice. Maybe we can have promotion codes which can be exclusive for tbhp members.
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Old 28th September 2007, 22:02   #45
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gunman, why not distribute your current stock to us needy and greedy tbhpians? (i mean no offence to anyone, just kidding.)

i would love to receive a courier from bbw containing a vrx amp, idmax, connection audison sonus, audiocomp damping, hertz high energy 3 ways with dome mids and an hx-d2 which ill pay for.

that will be really nice of you. me waiting. lol

cheers
clip.

ak,

we have had a debate on the sensitivity thing earlier in another thread. i dont have the link but it should be on its way. i have a hertz energy 15 incher in a sealed enclosure. earlier i was using pioneer 12" 306 x 2. the loudness is as good as both the pios combined with much mich better sq. IMHO, it is worth every penny. its running off a 944 bridged for 250w. the pios were getting 250w each. i dont know why but ill say it again, the loudness was almost the same. i was a bass head when i got this sub and was/am extremely happy.

my point is that my 15 incher in a sealed enclosure is getting just 250w and honestly speaking, its loud and does good sq as well. maybe there is something wrong with your setup? do get it checked.

can you post complete details of your setup? what power cables, interconnects, amp, speker cables etc?

cheers
clip
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