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Old 18th October 2007, 01:42   #1
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Default Zen - Icing it right!

Am contemplating a minor upgrade. Planning to add a pair of 5 1/2" components upfront replacing the 4" speakers in the door. ( car in question -- 2005 zen)
First out to explain my current setup:
Pioneer Headunit having a single pair of rca outs.
4" fronts powered directly by the HU.
RCA outs ---> rca splitter cable--->pioneer 4500 equaliser( does not have a separate subwoofer control) ---> sony 444( 4 channel amp), which powers subwoofer bridged and rear oval coaxials + TS20. (the ts20s are fixed just below the windsheild).

Main objective of getting the components is to get a soundstage.

Please give your comments on ways i could improve the setup.

Another issue i am facing is that if i get the 51/2" components is that it will not fit into the stock location in the door. The door panel of the 05 zen does not have a removable speaker grill. So wouldn't mind some suggestions on going custom as well.

p.s.I really do hope my above post is not too confusing.
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Old 18th October 2007, 08:06   #2
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@Rohan, You will be able to get 5.25" comps into the front doors of the Zen with a spacer. But I don't think you'll be able to keep the stock grille. You'll need to use the grille that comes with the speaker.

The 5.25" comps will make a big improvement over the current 4" speakers.

To get a good soundstage in front, you'll need to get the amp to feed the comps. Get the amp to power the comps and the sub, and leave the rears running off the HU.

Lose the TS20s in the back. With comps, you don't need separate tweets anyway, least of all in the back. And TS20s are best left out. Also, tweets in the back will pull the image backward.

After setting it up, depending on how it sounds, you can maybe consider getting rid of the EQ too

A better amp (say, a Blau GT4 special @6K or so) will improve things a whole lot, but better keep that for later, when you want an upgrade.
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Old 18th October 2007, 13:00   #3
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Hi Rohan, I think Hydra covered everything aptly (as usual ), but posting your budget would help getting more/better inputs. Also, try to post what sub and cables you're currently using.

Cheers!
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Old 19th October 2007, 00:39   #4
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Thanks guys for the replies.
@ hydrashok: Yup thats what i had in mind as well. Is it really worthwhile having the eq? Was thinking of changing HU as well to get myself 3 sets of rca outs. Is that a good thing or should i stick to the current HU?
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Old 19th October 2007, 00:44   #5
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@rocksterraghu: Sub is pioneer, don't remember the model. Will post pics of the current install tommorrow. Cables are not branded but of thick gauge. No budget as such but don't want to go with overkill. Would like to work around with what i have at the moment. Add some and remove some kinda thing.

Last edited by rohan_fonseca : 19th October 2007 at 00:45.
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Old 19th October 2007, 00:47   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rohan_fonseca View Post
Is it really worthwhile having the eq? Was thinking of changing HU as well to get myself 3 sets of rca outs. Is that a good thing or should i stick to the current HU?
No point having the external EQ at all. Modern day head units have parametric EQs built in, and the 3-pre out grey model from Pioneer sells for about 5.5k. 3 pre-outs are healthier anyday.

And like hydrash has very correctly pointed out, ok? .. a good pair of fronts and a sub running off the head unit will do far better than the current config.
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Old 21st October 2007, 22:07   #7
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Pics of the current sub and HU






Also please suggest some jugaad to fit 5 1/2 - 6 " compos on this door panel
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Old 22nd October 2007, 13:07   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rohan_fonseca View Post
Also please suggest some jugaad to fit 5 1/2 - 6 " compos on this door panel
Hello Rohan,

Hydrashok has already replied to this query... I quote
Quote:
@Rohan, You will be able to get 5.25" comps into the front doors of the Zen with a spacer. But I don't think you'll be able to keep the stock grille. You'll need to use the grille that comes with the speaker.
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Old 22nd October 2007, 13:53   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rohan_fonseca View Post
Also please suggest some jugaad to fit 5 1/2 - 6 " compos on this door panel
Rohan, the only jugaad that I can think of is cutting of door panels and adding a spacer right to support the woofer from a component set. This needs some basic expertise and if done properly looks damn neat too. Just get some carpet around the spacer rings to match the colour of your door pad and you are all set. If you are not willing to get into cutting shutting business then try the Illusion EL 4.1 component set which will be a stock fit in your car and are by far a very nice sounding component set. Make a decision.

Try and get rid of the EQ.

Next thing you can do is reorganize this:

Quote:
RCA outs ---> rca splitter cable--->pioneer 4500 equaliser( does not have a separate subwoofer control) ---> sony 444( 4 channel amp), which powers subwoofer bridged and rear oval coaxials + TS20. (the ts20s are fixed just below the windsheild).
Power the rears of the HU and the front component speakers off the amp. You will have the sound stage to the front.

Give the TS 20's a pass and keep them in the place where you keep the EQ once you get it off.

What brand of sub is that? Try facing the sub towards the boot lid for better bass. Thats what I figured out when we had the zen.

And now the question that I should have asked first. Whats your budget?
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Old 22nd October 2007, 14:02   #10
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Moral no budget as such but don't want to overdo it.
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Old 22nd October 2007, 16:32   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moralfibre View Post

What brand of sub is that? Try facing the sub towards the boot lid for better bass. Thats what I figured out when we had the zen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rohan_fonseca View Post
Moral no budget as such but don't want to overdo it.
Moral, I think the sub is Pio TS-W33C, 12".

Rohan, if you have a good budget, you can improve your setup. First, you'll need to get rid of the EQ and TS-20s. If possible, remove the sub too.

You can get the 5 1/4" components you're planning for about 5k, a good sub like GT5-12 for 4k. If you have more to spare, think about adding another good amplifier to drive the sub and the components. Your rear speakers can be driven by the Sony amplifier that you have now.

Remember that with the upgrade, you'll need about 4-5k for wires and installation.

So, the question is, what is your budget?
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Old 22nd October 2007, 18:02   #12
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Guys to keep all updated. Just got back from the shop. This is what i have got worked out. Getting rid of the eq, ts20 and HU. Getting 3000 bucks for the HU, 1200 for the tweeters and 4000 for the eq.
New HU thinking about pioneer DEH 7950 with front,rear and sub RCA outs or the base alpine model but it has only 1 set of RCA outs.
Components options i've seen are Boston S60 (6" compos) or rockford fosgate(not sure about the model as it was not in stock today.)
For wiring i saw a sony xplode wiring kit. Hows that?
@rockersterraghu: I could get the sub changed at a later date. Want to concentrate on setting up the compos right first.
What about damping?
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Old 22nd October 2007, 18:44   #13
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@Rohan, don't ever say "no budget as such" here

You're getting pretty good value for the stuff you are returning, IMHO.

As Raghu said, Front 5.25" comps (JBL GTO507c) for about 5K and a GT5-12 sub for about 4K will get you started. Add 3-4K for wiring and a box for the sub.

The Pio7950 is a pretty good buy. The Alpine 987x does have only 1 preout. Better go with the Pio if budget is around 9K.

RF and Boston comps are not generally recommended here. But do listen to them and see if you like them. But also listen to other brands like JBL, Blaupunkt and Alpine for comparison (I don't think Hertz, Illusion etc are available in Panaji?).

About 5K to 6K is a very good budget for 5.25" comps.If you are thinking of 6 or 6.5" comps, 6 to 6.5K is a good budget. But you'll need a real thick spacer to get them into the Zen's door. And that will cause some loss of space inside the cabin.

You can upgrade in stages, as and when finances permit. Going step by step is the best way of building your system. Easy on your pocket, and you get to enjoy the benefits of each upgrade separately.

Stage 1:
Front Comps + Rear Coaxials (6.5" will do, 6x9 not necessary if you are getting a sub later). Total about 9K-10K.

Stage 2:
a) Wiring + 4-ch amp. About 6K + 2K. (For a budget amp; 7K-8K for a better amp, 10K-12K for a really good amp).
b) Damp the front doors: 2K to 3K.

Stage 3:
a Sub (Use the amp to run the fronts and the sub). About 4K + 1.5K (for box).
b) Damp the boot and maybe C-pillars: 2K to 3K

Stage 4
(Not really needed):
Monoblock Amp for sub. About 10K. Use the 4-ch amp to run the fronts and rears.

Enjoyyyy.

EDIT: Just saw this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rohan_fonseca View Post
For wiring i saw a sony xplode wiring kit. Hows that?
Most likely a fake. I've never heard of an Xplod wiring kit. I seriously doubt if one exists. You can wiring kits of streetwires/scosche/stinger/pyle etc. But as before, watch out for fakes!

Last edited by hydrashok : 22nd October 2007 at 18:49.
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Old 22nd October 2007, 20:51   #14
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[quote=hydrashok;602701You can wiring kits of streetwires/scosche/stinger/pyle etc. But as before, watch out for fakes![/QUOTE]

is it me or do I find more fake wiring kits than just about any other component?
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Old 22nd October 2007, 23:13   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
is it me or do I find more fake wiring kits than just about any other component?
I had exactly the same thought as I was posting. This is probably because it is real easy for the con artists to get a bunch of wires, design the packaging and then swear on their mother that it is the "besht" wiring kit in the world!

Sony Xplod is probably the most gullible of brands when it comes to a fake wiring kit. All one needs to get it to look genuine is use lots and lots of red in the packaging and on the wires.
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