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Old 8th November 2007, 13:56   #61
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LBM, in an install of this calibre, I am sure a lot of trouble and effort was taken to install the front soundstage. I would not doubt that for a second.

Gunbir, Bong - do you have any photos of the front speakers? I'd love to see them.
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Old 8th November 2007, 15:56   #62
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Originally Posted by Flying Bong View Post
As far as features like imaging & staging go, it would be unfair to compare a home & car setup but the end result in the car has been pleasantly surprising .
It seems that this particular statement of mine has spawned a lot of debate on this thread so I will clarify-

1. I meant that it is DIFFICULT to achieve staging & imaging in a car environment ON PAR with a good home setup, given the limitations involved (speaker location, off-center seating, reflections etc). Gunbir/JB/other gurus may kindly correct me if my assertion is incorrect. My apologies, if that is the case.
2. I DID NOT mean that the imaging in my car setup is poor. In fact I am quite happy with the end result. I will describe my impressions of the same briefly, for the sake of clarification:

Image is in the center for the driver's seat and slightly left of center for the front passenger. Stage is at eye level and reaonable deep i.e. extends back to the hood. This varies slightly depending on the recording.
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Old 8th November 2007, 18:34   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Bong
1. I meant that it is DIFFICULT to achieve staging & imaging in a car environment ON PAR with a good home setup, given the limitations involved (speaker location, off-center seating, reflections etc). Gunbir/JB/other gurus may kindly correct me if my assertion is incorrect. My apologies, if that is the case.
VERY difficult, I would say. As compared to good ol' home audio.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Bong
Image is in the center for the driver's seat and slightly left of center for the front passenger. Stage is at eye level and reaonable deep i.e. extends back to the hood. This varies slightly depending on the recording.
By center you mean center of the car or central to listening position (which would be straight ahead)?

And if it varies in both positions, are the drivers aimed asymmetrically? Or is the path of one or more drivers obstructed by say steering or something in one of the seating positions? Excuse my confusion but I am unfamiliar with the stock location for the tweeter in the Cedia.

Lastly, all of this is with some processing like TA or without?
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Old 8th November 2007, 19:35   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble View Post
By center you mean center of the car or central to listening position (which would be straight ahead)?
Center of the car

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Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble View Post
And if it varies in both positions, are the drivers aimed asymmetrically? Or is the path of one or more drivers obstructed by say steering or something in one of the seating positions? Excuse my confusion but I am unfamiliar with the stock location for the tweeter in the Cedia.
As far as I am able to make out, tweeters are aimed symmetrically. There is no stock provision in the Cedia for tweeters. They have been mounted flush in the door panels in front of the door handles. This had been done during the initial installation of the X-Types at the Alpine showroom

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Lastly, all of this is with some processing like TA or without?
No TA or processing.
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Old 8th November 2007, 20:21   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunbir View Post
Aren't you assuming that wasn't done in the first place.
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Originally Posted by low_bass_makker View Post
NO, Chalo what you wanna say that there is no scope of improvement what you have done 100 % perfect and nothing in this world can improve it more very strange to hear
...
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Originally Posted by gunbir View Post
My friend, it is indeed very strange to hear, cuz I didn't say that. As always, YOU said so..!!!
Dont say you two weren't warned. Take your issues elsewhere! This time I have given you both infractions.
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Old 8th November 2007, 20:37   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Bong View Post
1. I meant that it is DIFFICULT to achieve staging & imaging in a car environment ON PAR with a good home setup, given the limitations involved (speaker location, off-center seating, reflections etc). ..
..Image is in the center for the driver's seat and slightly left of center for the front passenger. Stage is at eye level and reaonable deep i.e. extends back to the hood. This varies slightly depending on the recording.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble View Post
And if it varies in both positions, are the drivers aimed asymmetrically? Or is the path of one or more drivers obstructed by say steering or something in one of the seating positions?..Lastly, all of this is with some processing like TA or without?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Bong View Post
..tweeters are aimed symmetrically..
Achiving a stereo image with the width and depth of home audio with out without TA is very very diffuclt in a car. the car is not a very nice envrioment.

TA is best used to align the subwoofer. When used to compensate for speaker position it creates more problems than it solves.

it is better to "use" the differences in the on axis and off axis response to try and achieve some semblance of a good image. even then there will be anamolies that one just has to lvei with. Some cars (the OPEL ASTRA for one) were very kind to imaging.
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Old 8th November 2007, 23:32   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Bong View Post
As far as I am able to make out, tweeters are aimed symmetrically. There is no stock provision in the Cedia for tweeters. They have been mounted flush in the door panels in front of the door handles. This had been done during the initial installation of the X-Types at the Alpine showroom
FB I just wanna ask that was when the whole setup redone was the tweeter location alter in anyway or it still resides flush mounted in the door panel as done at the alpine showroom as you mentioned few posts before.
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Old 9th November 2007, 09:18   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by low_bass_makker View Post
FB I just wanna ask that was when the whole setup redone was the tweeter location alter in anyway or it still resides flush mounted in the door panel as done at the alpine showroom as you mentioned few posts before.
Tweeters are mounted in the door panel. Gunbir/JB tried all locations - kicks, sail panels & A-pillar before this location was finalized.
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Old 9th November 2007, 09:52   #69
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Originally Posted by gunbir View Post
Raghu, the iDQ blends well as it is. In IB subs lose some top end whack (read: kick), and the iDQ does lose some too. In such cases there is more dependence on the midbass for "kick" and the X types keep up except where a lot of speed is required.

That said, the iDQ goes low giving great tactile feel and the bass lacks any kind of box coloration. The bass is really smooth with no boom at all. A very "warm" kind of bass, if that means anything.
Thank you paaji for that detailed reply.

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why not listen to it?
Oh! I wish I could. I'll probably join Hydra when he leaves for a North India ICE tour.
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Old 9th November 2007, 10:35   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by low_bass_makker View Post
FB I just wanna ask that was when the whole setup redone was the tweeter location alter in anyway or it still resides flush mounted in the door panel as done at the alpine showroom as you mentioned few posts before.
.

Tweeters are flush mounted in the doors as they were originallly installed by Alpine dealer.

We (me, gunbir & flying bong) have spent an entire sunday afternoon in listening to different tweeter locations, as mentioned by flying bong earlier. And settled for the door panel location as it was sounding the best.

Rest was taken care by time alignment options available on Alpine passive crossovers.

There is no delay / TA done on speaker / sub from Alpine 9887.
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Old 9th November 2007, 11:05   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
Dont say you two weren't warned. Take your issues elsewhere! This time I have given you both infractions.
navin, i guess there are no issues as such but the way that LBM's general statement was quoted (and replies thereof) was wrong.

Anyways, how about posting some pics of the tweeters install? Everyone would like to see. (including myself)
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Old 9th November 2007, 11:24   #72
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Anyways, how about posting some pics of the tweeters install? Everyone would like to see. (including myself)
Somehow I don't have any pics of the finished door panels but will post soon. Or maybe FB can post some pics.
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Old 9th November 2007, 12:51   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunbir View Post
Somehow I don't have any pics of the finished door panels but will post soon. Or maybe FB can post some pics.
Sorry for taking a shortcut here, but this should give everyone a rough idea (tweeter location highlighted in red) -



Will post proper pics as soon as I click some.
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Old 9th November 2007, 14:52   #74
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completely dumb question from my side, the dmapening material (silver) is laid first then packed with foam and mat on the door pad.

Isnt it wasting the dampening material OR does it contribute to some rigidity etc etc?

Ignorant me
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Old 9th November 2007, 15:15   #75
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Wow!! A very nice thread on a very well done SubWoofer installation.

Gunbir / FB: I have a few queries:

1. I see you have retained the OE speakers all around. What other choices did you consider before deciding to retain the OE speakers? Is there a scope for improvement in their quality?

You may have upgraded them anyways, if they are no good. But, please let me know if you considered an upgrade.

2. What about the HU? Did you retain the OE head unit (Bluepoint?)?

3. How did you power the tweeter? Did you use the HU output itself with a crossover or did you power it using the newly installed amp? [This question may be dumb, but, please enlighten].

Anyway, thanks for the ideas. And, I now can imagine an ICE upgrade for my Cedia too.
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