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Old 21st November 2007, 08:52   #46
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@vebmetal, you don't need to do everything in one go. If you do that, you'll end up with stuff you'll want to upgrade, and not keep. When you buy stuff, try and get stuff that will remain for a very long time.

Right now, get just front speakers, and a decent HU. Since you have an Estilo, get those Illusion 4" comps for the front (5.5K I think), and a Pio 3950 (5K, I think) This would be 11K total. Keep the remaining 4K and don't spend it [Get a decent HU. Don't go for the MP3 player to amp short-cut. It won't be a long-term solution.]

Next, when you have another 5K, get coaxials (same range as the ones in front) and a parcel tray for the back.

Next, when you have about 9K-10K, get the Pio6700 amp (about 7K now), and good wiring (Finolex will do for power, but get good RCAs) for about 2K total. Power the fronts and rears with the amp.

Next, when you have about 6k, get a JBL GT5-12 and a box.

Last, when you have another 3K-4K or so, damp the front doors.

All this will probably take about a year, but at the end of that year, you will have a good system that will be a keeper, and you'll have enjoyed the benefits of 4 upgrades.

Don't try and fit everything into just what you want to spend now.

(If you want to skip the rear speakers, you can, but then you might have to get a 2-ch amp to power the speakers first, and then another 2-ch or a mono later, for the sub. More expenditure at the same time -- mono+sub).

Last edited by hydrashok : 21st November 2007 at 09:03.
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Old 21st November 2007, 11:42   #47
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Originally Posted by hydrashok View Post
@vebmetal, you don't need to do everything in one go. If you do that, you'll end up with stuff you'll want to upgrade, and not keep. When you buy stuff, try and get stuff that will remain for a very long time.

Right now, get just front speakers, and a decent HU. Since you have an Estilo, get those Illusion 4" comps for the front (5.5K I think), and a Pio 3950 (5K, I think) This would be 11K total. Keep the remaining 4K and don't spend it [Get a decent HU. Don't go for the MP3 player to amp short-cut. It won't be a long-term solution.]

Next, when you have another 5K, get coaxials (same range as the ones in front) and a parcel tray for the back.

Next, when you have about 9K-10K, get the Pio6700 amp (about 7K now), and good wiring (Finolex will do for power, but get good RCAs) for about 2K total. Power the fronts and rears with the amp.

Next, when you have about 6k, get a JBL GT5-12 and a box.

Last, when you have another 3K-4K or so, damp the front doors.

All this will probably take about a year, but at the end of that year, you will have a good system that will be a keeper, and you'll have enjoyed the benefits of 4 upgrades.

Don't try and fit everything into just what you want to spend now.

(If you want to skip the rear speakers, you can, but then you might have to get a 2-ch amp to power the speakers first, and then another 2-ch or a mono later, for the sub. More expenditure at the same time -- mono+sub).
there is a world of difference between 6x9 co-ax, and a sub. imho, unless one doesn't like bass, one should go for a sub. 2 channels of the amp can be bridged to drive it, and 2 can drive the front components. i belong to a school of thought that most economy 6x9s do not deserve an amp.

i actually appreciate danny's idea of a no HU. if you buy an amp that takes direct aux in, and provide a switch, you get a great setup at a very low price. even if you need an HU, in that case you can take a basic cassette player which has a CD changer jack to it, connect the iPod with a belkin cable to the jack and you are ready in 3-4000 rs. i believe nowadays with the iPod, even mp3 CDs are getting outdated.

here's how i would go for it:
A.
1. basic cassette HU with CD changer option - 2500.
2. belkin cable for iPod - (i don't think more than 1000)
3. 2-channel amp (not more than 4-5000)
4. front components - not more than 6500
5. rear pre-amplified sub in a box - not more than 7500

B.
1. belkin cable for iPod - (i don't think more than 1000)
2. 4-channel amp that takes aux in (will have to check this)
3. front components - not more than 6500
5. rear sub in a box - not more than 4000

on paper, option B is better. it does a great job. later on whenever he has to buy a HU, he can go for one which has a crossover... however, this is a novel idea, and i haven't seen such a set-up. it could though very well be the beginning of a new trend.
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Old 21st November 2007, 12:15   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montyguru View Post
i actually appreciate danny's idea of a no HU. if you buy an amp that takes direct aux in, and provide a switch, you get a great setup at a very low price. even if you need an HU, in that case you can take a basic cassette player which has a CD changer jack to it, connect the iPod with a belkin cable to the jack and you are ready in 3-4000 rs. i believe nowadays with the iPod, even mp3 CDs are getting outdated.

here's how i would go for it:
A.
1. basic cassette HU with CD changer option - 2500.
2. belkin cable for iPod - (i don't think more than 1000)
3. 2-channel amp (not more than 4-5000)
4. front components - not more than 6500
5. rear pre-amplified sub in a box - not more than 7500

B.
1. belkin cable for iPod - (i don't think more than 1000)
2. 4-channel amp that takes aux in (will have to check this)
3. front components - not more than 6500
5. rear sub in a box - not more than 4000
Just a few points that support a HU requirement:

1. He has to sacrifice Balance and Fader controls.

2. Volume has to be controlled from the player. Searching and scrolling would be awful on the player - there would be no remote in both setups.

3. If rear speakers need to be added, things get complicated.
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Old 21st November 2007, 14:47   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocksterraghu View Post
Just a few points that support a HU requirement:

1. He has to sacrifice Balance and Fader controls.

2. Volume has to be controlled from the player. Searching and scrolling would be awful on the player - there would be no remote in both setups.

3. If rear speakers need to be added, things get complicated.
Fader control, I don't care about, since I am more thank likely looking at a setup which would be of front components, and a sub.. so no rear coaxials => no need for fader.

Added to that, in all my years, I have never used the balance control, except to check up whether one sides speakers aren't working. In that rare scenario, most mp3 players have a balance control, which would suffice.

The thing I would miss in a HU is the ability to control the sub. (actually, I am not too sure about how much this helps or doesn't).


My original ICE idea was this (but it's working out to be beyond my budget):
  • Blaupunkt GTA 480 amp with Aux-In (9,000 with B&W)
  • Front 6.5" components (6,000 with B&W)
  • Sub (7,000 or so)
With wiring this would come out to be around 25K which is a no go for me.


So do I take it that 15K is too less to expect 4Ch amp + front components + sub?
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Old 21st November 2007, 14:57   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vebmetal
The thing I would miss in a HU is the ability to control the sub. (actually, I am not too sure about how much this helps or doesn't).
Its handy, but you dont have a choice. Unless you get an amp which has a remote bass knob that can be used to adjust the level for the two channels that the sub is connected to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vebmetal
My original ICE idea was this (but it's working out to be beyond my budget):
  • Blaupunkt GTA 480 amp with Aux-In (9,000 with B&W)
  • Front 6.5" components (6,000 with B&W)
  • Sub (7,000 or so)
With wiring this would come out to be around 25K which is a no go for me.
Get a Blau GT4 special or some grey market amp (6k), sub + enclosure could be about 6k and get the comps you are planning (5-6k) with a wiring kit costing about another 2k and you're looking at about 19-20k which is midway between your budget and your previously contemplated system.
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Old 21st November 2007, 15:37   #51
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Hydra's reply is the *right* answer to the process. B&T is trying to answer your original question. But one thing is sure: you have to keep either the budget or the components fixed. Keeping both flexible will get you no where.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vebmetal View Post
So do I take it that 15K is too less to expect 4Ch amp + front components + sub?
As individual components, of course you can buy the above for 15k; pretty decent as well, like CS series 60.4 (6k) + 5.25"c (5k) + 4-12" (4k). But can it get you going? Like B&T said, 20k would be more like it.
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Old 21st November 2007, 16:25   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vebmetal View Post
..I have to resign myself to ICE that stays within budget or no ICE at all

So can I get the following in 15K? (b&w preferable to the extent that it fits the budget, otherwise grey):
  1. 4 channel amp
  2. Front components
  3. Sub (or would getting a tray and a pair of 6x9s be cheaper?)
  4. All wiring required (decent brand - something that's not trash)
for 15K an amp (other than the Sony 554), a pair of 6x9 and a pair of coax front speakers and 2 pairs of RCA is possible. if you want components expect to spend 2-3K more.
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Old 21st November 2007, 17:31   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocksterraghu View Post
Just a few points that support a HU requirement:

1. He has to sacrifice Balance and Fader controls.

2. Volume has to be controlled from the player. Searching and scrolling would be awful on the player - there would be no remote in both setups.

3. If rear speakers need to be added, things get complicated.
volume has to be controlled any which ways. it's as cumbersome from the HU unless you have a remote... u risk taking eyes off your road. however, i don't think one usually adjusts volume frequently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vebmetal View Post
Fader control, I don't care about, since I am more thank likely looking at a setup which would be of front components, and a sub.. so no rear coaxials => no need for fader.

Added to that, in all my years, I have never used the balance control, except to check up whether one sides speakers aren't working. In that rare scenario, most mp3 players have a balance control, which would suffice.

The thing I would miss in a HU is the ability to control the sub. (actually, I am not too sure about how much this helps or doesn't).


My original ICE idea was this (but it's working out to be beyond my budget):
  • Blaupunkt GTA 480 amp with Aux-In (9,000 with B&W)
  • Front 6.5" components (6,000 with B&W)
  • Sub (7,000 or so)
With wiring this would come out to be around 25K which is a no go for me.


So do I take it that 15K is too less to expect 4Ch amp + front components + sub?
actually, NO. theoretically, you could add a pre-amp to your iPod.

Preamp - 2W Amplifier w/Microphone Pre-Amp Kit

this enters in a hobby/jugad zone. aise local makes bhi zaroor hote honge.

then you need is a decent 4-channel amp... grey me sasta mil jayega 6-7 tak. one pair of front compos. and a sub.

now it depends... how far you believe in it. i have come across locally assembled home theatre systems which sound great. at prices you cannot imagine. but it needs some time, patience, engineering... and some things where you cannot compromise.

sub doesn't cost 7k... entry level 307s and GTOs wouldn't cost more than 3k in grey. you'd need to spend a bit for the box though.
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Old 22nd November 2007, 12:55   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vebmetal View Post
Fader control, I don't care about, since I am more thank likely looking at a setup which would be of front components, and a sub.. so no rear coaxials => no need for fader.

Added to that, in all my years, I have never used the balance control, except to check up whether one sides speakers aren't working. In that rare scenario, most mp3 players have a balance control, which would suffice.

The thing I would miss in a HU is the ability to control the sub. (actually, I am not too sure about how much this helps or doesn't).
Just like you mentioned Sub, your bass and treble levels would have to be modified at times, depending on the recording company, type of music and your taste. If all the compromise saves you 3k (Pio 2950), you might as well think about it. Again, just my opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by montyguru View Post
volume has to be controlled any which ways. it's as cumbersome from the HU unless you have a remote... u risk taking eyes off your road. however, i don't think one usually adjusts volume frequently.

actually, NO. theoretically, you could add a pre-amp to your iPod.

Preamp - 2W Amplifier w/Microphone Pre-Amp Kit

this enters in a hobby/jugad zone. aise local makes bhi zaroor hote honge.
A compromise on SQ? There is no Audio-CD support and MP3s distorted by local amplifiers? I am sorry, but I think a 2.5-3k HU is a much better option.
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Old 22nd November 2007, 13:19   #55
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Point taken, rocksterraghu. Especially since most installers aren't too comfortable with the idea. Moreover, I am tired of answering why I want to do this! I have decided to go with the Pioneer 4950, but in grey only, otherwise it's not VFM at all.

Also getting a HU allows me to upgrade in stages. Tentatively, I will most probably just get a HU and front components for now, followed by an amp, followed by a sub. It's high time and I need some ICE in my car!!!
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Old 22nd November 2007, 14:54   #56
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Originally Posted by vebmetal View Post
Point taken, rocksterraghu. Especially since most installers aren't too comfortable with the idea. Moreover, I am tired of answering why I want to do this! I have decided to go with the Pioneer 4950, but in grey only, otherwise it's not VFM at all.

Also getting a HU allows me to upgrade in stages. Tentatively, I will most probably just get a HU and front components for now, followed by an amp, followed by a sub. It's high time and I need some ICE in my car!!!
consider the 6950 with the HP/LP crossover which will be useful if you are gonna add a sub later.

unless you are buying amps which have HP/LP.

Last edited by montyguru : 22nd November 2007 at 14:56.
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Old 22nd November 2007, 15:12   #57
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Originally Posted by vebmetal View Post
Also getting a HU allows me to upgrade in stages. Tentatively, I will most probably just get a HU and front components for now, followed by an amp, followed by a sub. It's high time and I need some ICE in my car!!!
I am assuming that when you do get the amp and sub, you will use the amp to drive the fronts and sub while the rears stay on the head unit. For this the 3950 is also sufficient since it has front and sub pre-outs. The crossover for the speakers and sub can always be set from the amp.
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Old 22nd November 2007, 15:26   #58
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Yeah, HPF/LPF crossovers would be from the amp only.. any decent amp has those AFAIK. I won't be getting rear speakers though, since 99.5% of the time no one sits in the back, and the Estilo only has provisions for 4" (or maybe 5.25") speakers in the rear, which would add nothing to the sound for the driver (me) or front passenger. So yes, if and when I get an amp, it will run the front components as well as the sub.

The 3950 seems sufficient as well though not as good looking as the 4950. But it does have an Aux-In in the front which is superb for me. How much does it come for (grey)?
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Old 24th November 2007, 18:54   #59
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Also, generally speaking, HUs have an output of 4 x anything from 20 to 25W. Since I am only installing front components, is it possible to bridge (I use the term loosely) the output so that the unused rear outputs also pump it out to the front components? i.e. I get 2 x 50W or something like that?
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Old 25th November 2007, 00:07   #60
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Originally Posted by vebmetal View Post
Also, generally speaking, HUs have an output of 4 x anything from 20 to 25W. Since I am only installing front components, is it possible to bridge (I use the term loosely) the output so that the unused rear outputs also pump it out to the front components? i.e. I get 2 x 50W or something like that?
Not possible with a HU amp as they are made to run in a 4 channel mode only. Few Pioneer HU has a Sub out feature but that will give I think max 40 rms which is nothing for any sub.
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