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Old 6th November 2007, 15:28   #1
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Lightbulb With/Without Warranty?

Hi Pipl,
I thought it is necessary to understand if buying with warranty makes sense or not. Please answer the following with reasons:

Is it necessary to buy the following with warranty? If YES - WHY?

1. Head Units
2. Speakers/Components
3. Sub Woofers
4. Amp
5. Cables/Crossovers

Thanks for participating.
Danny
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Old 6th November 2007, 23:54   #2
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Default the bill warranty debate

hi danny,
consider this.

warranty and pukka bill with serial no of products positives:
(now who actually gives that in the first place!! lol)

1. genuine product, not a fake
2. assurance
3. official import
4. insurance provided, if not can be done
5. deduction in accounts
6. new product, not an old one sold as new
7. you can sue the dealer should anything go wrong

warranty and pukka bill negatives:

1. higher cost
2. higher cost
3. higher cost... which basically goes to the govt.

interesting:
1. warranties are not stamped, not registered.

2. even if they are stamped, regd and product goes faulty, they are still not honoured, because warranty is only for manufacturing defects and NOTHING else.

3. so do you really need a warranty for manufacturing defects? and what kind of company sends out products with defects in the first place? and then has to issue warranties to cover its ***? or do they do simply do this to counter the fakes? which is why they insist you register the product?

I only know of Polk in India to have this, no other brand. Well-priced. Serial Numbered. Online registration. But again, only against manufacturing defects, so what the heck !!

market reality:
sony HU with b&w: 9990
same sony HU without b&w (new): 5000
same sony HU without b&w, without faith (i.e. old sold as new): 5000

market reality:
pioneer new 6x9 co-ax: 3500 (without b&w, with faith)
pioneer used 6x9 co-ax: 3500 (without b&w, without faith)
pioneer fake 6x9 co-ax: 800 (without b&w, without faith, sold for 3500 :-))

(that's how easy it is to cover the DISCOUNTED Head Unit)

IMHO Conclusion:

1. HUs aren't easy to fake, though they may not be new. consider the price difference and take the risk. if there's a difference of 20-30%, pay it, show it in your books, get that 30% tax rebate, and sleep in peace.

2. Speaker fakes are common right from focal utopias to pioneer and sony. Neither is it easy to make out a used one from an unused one. most dealers won't show them to you. or show new ones, and install old ones. who checks them anyways? LBM can tell you more about this from his personal experience :-)

3. It's a good idea to go with speakers with a bill and warranty, and ensure that batch/serial nos are entered on it. but again, while a sub with b&w will start only at 4-5k, you'll get a new 307 for 2800. so by and large, it's a question of trust.

unless you have a car that justifies it, or you want to claim deduction by showing expenses, b&w are of no use. yeah... we've to be good citizens pay taxes and all that crap is there. but then, the police in our country doesn't even file an FIR if you tell them your mobile was stolen. they file it only if you say it was lost/misplaced by you. such is the state of affairs !!
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Old 7th November 2007, 10:18   #3
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Thats a good explanation buddy...

Always buy any product with bill & warranty...
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Old 7th November 2007, 11:25   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montyguru View Post
most dealers won't show them to you. or show new ones, and install old ones. who checks them anyways? LBM can tell you more about this from his personal experience :-)
What do you mean by this..And do I know ?
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Old 7th November 2007, 11:58   #5
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It helps to buy with B & W to ensure you get a genuine product.

Quote:
Originally Posted by low_bass_makker View Post
What do you mean by this..And do I know ?
Yeah, I am also interested in your experiences LBM.
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Old 7th November 2007, 12:09   #6
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Danny i normally buy stuff from gray and till date no issues as bought from well known grey shops, last week even got replacement for my GT)937 speker as one piece was having short coil issue.
If you know any one in grey market then go and save lots of molahas or go for B&W.BTW few guys in Manish Market are quite OK to deal with and they gives 7 days replacement warrenty also.
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Old 7th November 2007, 14:01   #7
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Take this with a pinch of salt, but I think that under the Sales of Goods Act, you are anyway protected from any manufacturing defects whether the manufacturer gives a written warranty or not. It is your right as a consumer to not get defective, faulty, or hazardous goods. But practically speaking, it's easier to get the product repaired / replaced if you have a warranty card, because otherwise it would mean taking legal action against the company (i.e in consumer court) if the company denies you this warranty.

My personal take on the ICE market is that there is a plethora of shady dealers. That is where team-bhp would help you, i.e. in getting touch with a dealer / installer who is well recommended and honest and getting to know the right prices. That way at least you minimize your risk of getting a bad product when buying grey. And of course, like anything else you buy in India, if you forge a long cordial relationship with a dealer, he will think twice before screwing you over, and would also be very helpful in repairing / replacing the product even if you bought it in grey. On the other hand, if he thinks you are a patsy, he will screw you over. This is the unfortunate phenomenon in India called dukaandaari that pervades all aspects of transactions here.

The biggest advantage of buying grey, of course, is to get better stuff within your budget than you could get with B&W (and from what I have gathered from here, people have had very good experiences in general with not having a problem). But just be aware of the risks - namely, getting used, defective, sub-standard goods.
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Old 7th November 2007, 22:51   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by low_bass_makker View Post
What do you mean by this..And do I know ?
aren't you aware of any car that has been installed with used speakers sold as new? :-)
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Old 8th November 2007, 04:40   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montyguru View Post
warranty and pukka bill with serial no of products positives:
(now who actually gives that in the first place!! lol)

1. genuine product, not a fake
2. assurance
3. official import
4. insurance provided, if not can be done
5. deduction in accounts
6. new product, not an old one sold as new
7. you can sue the dealer should anything go wrong

warranty and pukka bill negatives:

1. higher cost
2. higher cost
3. higher cost... which basically goes to the govt.
warranties are useless if they are not stamped and mailed in. I would adive all here to have them stamped and mail them in themselves (after making a photo copy for your records). warranties are also useless if there is no piucca bill. So when you mail your warranty i staple a copy of the bill with it.

in some cases the higher cost is not only taxes but also dealer margins. official dealers do charge more than grey market dealers. partly because they have to maintain service centers, show rooms, etc...

You also have to know your dealer. for most of my audio equipment my dealers know me! This ensures good service and a good realtionship. This is the advantage of buying from a company and a dealer with a reputaion for service.
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Old 8th November 2007, 15:50   #10
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The other thing about the Grey market is "B" Stock. A lot of the stuff that makes its way would have been a batch that had some QC issues or did not quite meet the standards. "Seconds" if I can call it that.

Also with the sheer volumes of stuff available in the market its pretty obvious that the Grey supply is aided by the parent corporations/importers themselves.

Iv got nothing against buying in Grey, just pointing out another practice that occurs
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Old 8th November 2007, 16:08   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s0uljah View Post
The other thing about the Grey market is "B" Stock. A lot of the stuff that makes its way would have been a batch that had some QC issues or did not quite meet the standards. "Seconds" if I can call it that.
This would depend on the company.

A reputable company would never let products that have not passed QC out of their factory into the world.
Grey or official, a brand is a brand. And unlike clothes etc, a small fault in electronics will result in an eventual failure.

But yes, smaller brands might do this.
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Old 8th November 2007, 16:30   #12
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Default grey is not seconds or B.

Quote:
Originally Posted by s0uljah View Post
The other thing about the Grey market is "B" Stock. A lot of the stuff that makes its way would have been a batch that had some QC issues or did not quite meet the standards. "Seconds" if I can call it that.

Also with the sheer volumes of stuff available in the market its pretty obvious that the Grey supply is aided by the parent corporations/importers themselves.

Iv got nothing against buying in Grey, just pointing out another practice that occurs
it's not "B" stuff in that sense.

it's "B" as in "BIG party" stuff. if you have a few thousand dollars to invest in stock, the company manufactures an exact copy of their product in the official line with a different model number... which sells at cheaper prices as it comes through unofficial channels and of course lower margins. this becomes "grey" as we call it. try a google search for any popular grey model, you will not find it on the brand's website, but it will be available all over, in the market and on the internet, and yes, it wouldn't be sub-standard or fake.

besides this, companies also consider the fact that no warranties are issued (hence no liabilities), therefore the lower costs. this way they protect both, their official channels with B&W, and higher sales, which typically begin with a "BIG" party.

not only this, nowadays companies create different model nos for different markets too. say a product X costing 100$ in singapore will be code named 8250, and the same product X will be sold as 825 P for 200$ in US. they wouldn't want US consumers to know that it's actually worth 100$, nor can they escape the stringent US consumer laws, and hence have to keep prices high... may be with some hera-pheri in packaging, or a tweak here n there.
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Old 8th November 2007, 17:37   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi View Post
This would depend on the company.
Of course!!

TontyTonty
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Old 11th November 2007, 11:52   #14
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Lightbulb Mumbai friends - suggest good dealers for ICE

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
warranties are useless if they are not stamped and mailed in. I would adive all here to have them stamped and mail them in themselves (after making a photo copy for your records). warranties are also useless if there is no piucca bill. So when you mail your warranty i staple a copy of the bill with it.

in some cases the higher cost is not only taxes but also dealer margins. official dealers do charge more than grey market dealers. partly because they have to maintain service centers, show rooms, etc...

You also have to know your dealer. for most of my audio equipment my dealers know me! This ensures good service and a good realtionship. This is the advantage of buying from a company and a dealer with a reputaion for service.
Navin and Friends from Mumbai, please post your experiences with dealers, and genuine Grey market dealers. I'm in santacruz and wish to buy the AMP and Speakers from someone here in Mumbai and will get it fixed with my dealer(due to electricals warranty of the car)!

Thanks for the huge support, and I guess this would be a useful thread for TeamBHP. Cheers to you all once more!
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Old 11th November 2007, 16:34   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danny View Post
Navin and Friends from Mumbai, please post your experiences with dealers, and genuine Grey market dealers. I'm in santacruz and wish to buy the AMP and Speakers from someone here in Mumbai and will get it fixed with my dealer(due to electricals warranty of the car)!

Thanks for the huge support, and I guess this would be a useful thread for TeamBHP. Cheers to you all once more!
your car dealer will install stuff you are buying from outside? at what cost?

tip: there aren't issues with warranty unless you cut wires. most good installers will have wiring harnesses specific to your car, and there shouldn't be any problem (just in case your dealer doesn't agree to do the install).
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