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Old 5th December 2007, 08:44   #16
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As always, I'm not in favour of bypassing the HU. If you take the big picture, you will need a HU somewhere down the line.

HU: I'd back Raghu on the Pio6950. Good HU is you're particular about 3 preouts *and* iPod connectivity. If you're not particular about the iPod, but 3 preouts are a must, you can get the 5950 and save abit of green.

BTW, why 3 preouts? You'll need 3 preouts only if you plan a 4ch amp + mono amp setup (and so naturally 4 speakers + sub) in the future. If you do, by all means, get a 3 preout HU. Else, if you'll be ok with a single amp setup (fronts and sub running off the amp, and the rears running off the HU) in the future, a 2 preout HU would do. Even a single preout HU would do, as you could fade the fronts and rears, keeping the sub-level constant. You'll get far more options for lesser if this is what you plan to close your setup with. You can settle for the Pio2950, or go for the Alpine 987x (single preout, but still has full speed iPod control, and I wager it will sound better than most HUs in the 8K range)

Speakers: You've got it right. Get comps in front. You can run them off the HU first, and then from an amp later. Since you have a limited budget, but still want low-end punch, I think you should leave the rears out, and get a sub instead (later), and get the rears last, if you really feel the need for them. Speedzak has mentioned all the options you can consider. The JBL GT5s will be 4K for a 6.5'' comp. You'll need to cut the front door panels for a 6.5'' comp, or get a 4'' comp from Illusion for the stock location in the dash.

Sub: A GT5-12 (5K) or a CS1204 (4K) should be fine.

Amp: 5k is good enough for the Blau GT4 special. But this amp will not drive a sub in a sealed box. It will be god enough for comps and 6x9s. A sub in a ported box or a bass-tube would sound ok with this amp. Other options would the upcoming GT5 series amps from JBL and Pio amps (the 6700) at about 7-8K. The kenwood amp you mentioned KAC8401 is reportedly a pretty good sounding amp.

You step-by-step plan is good, and the only change I'd suggest is to leave out the 6x9s as you really won't need them once the sub comes in. you can always get 5.25'' coaxials or 6.5'' coaxials for the back. And of course, I'd suggest getting a HU in the beginning, with the comps. You can get a 6K HU and 4K comps now. Or wait a while and get a 6K HU and 6K comps.

And as FlyingBong said, it would be a good idea if you fix a total budget for the ICE. It will help you decide on how much to spend now (and on what stuff to buy now).

[This has gotta be the biggest post I've made from my phone. please forgive typos Editing a post is tough from the phone]
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Old 5th December 2007, 08:58   #17
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Post Thank You So Very Much!

SpeedZak bhai,

I had seen you at the Autocar, but did not barge in to say hi, I repent for it now!

Thanks a million for the so long summary, it really makes me happy, that you guys are thinking in tandem for each other in the forum. Web2.0 has so much advantages we never knew when we made sites.

Back in topic,

1. Thanks for the compliments
2. It is not an iPod, it is a Personal Media Player from Philips. I would never buy the iPod, with knowledge about PMPs from gen1, I was one of the first buyers of MP3 players way back in 1998/99 when MPMan was rolled out!
3. Nice correction there to get the Subs after the Compos!
4. I would like some dampening too! Thanks for concreting my idea!
5. Will surely get the HU, and I don't fiddle with the MP3 player, it is a breeze to use unlike most of today's HUnits! Playlists save the day!
6. So you suggest I keep the wiring part to the last step - how much does the twister wiring cost?
7. Oh yeah, the monoblock was always there in my mind with the Sub, but the order in which you placed it different from mine, which makes more logical sense! [as per ur suggestion, A pair of Compos + 4ch Amp + Subs + Dampening is wonderful]

Hmmm about the next car, lets see - I love the Sonata and the Lancer, if the Zen bugs me I will make a decision, but the first car centiment might irk a bit, lets see how far I can shake it off?

[After so many offers for my 5Speed Yamaha, I have never felt the reason to give it off!] The Zen Estilo is not a Yam I agree!

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedzak View Post
I am really impressed by the way you have planned to do your setup in step by step. Ofcourse, there would be some corrections I may like to make. But going the step by step way is very very correct if you are short in moolah.

I'd say, get the components and amp first. Run it off from the MP3 player (is it an iPod?). Use 2channels from the 4channel amp for this. Then (when your moolah permits) you should get a subwoofer and run it off the other 2channels from the amp. Get some damping job on the doors and boot. You should be SET by now.
You may want to add a HU soon. Infact, you should get one. Fiddling with the mp3 player menu while driving is not something I would recommend. Get a good HU with some sort of mp3 player connectivity (iPod control, if it is). Whatever the world may say about compressed formats, there can't be anything more satisfying than the good ol' audio cds. I would recommend you to get the HU as soon as possible.
After you've done so much, then you may also add some sort of rear fills. Usual 6.5" coaxial speakers from the same range as your components would do. Run it off from the HU itself. You may also increase your damping a bit as necessary. Now, you should've reached a full SET system. Bilkul SET!

Let some more moolah come in. It's time to get some good wiring. Yes! Earlier, you could've even used any normal wiring such as Twister, visionik etc.... Now, you can spend some hard earned greens on brands like Monster, Connection Audison, EFX etc... Get good power wires, RCAs and speaker cables.
More moolah? Time to add another amp to your setup. Yes! A good monoblock which can bring out the real music out of your sub. Switch off the internal IC of your HU, power all the speakers thru the 4channel amp and the sub via monoblock. You will also have to add a distribution block to the power line between the amps.
Now, You'll have a full perfect setup. But being the upgrade bug bitten you, it'll be not long before you think about better, bigger amps/components/sub etc... But for that, you need a bigger/better car as well. You're always welcome to come back here then and we'll be glad to help you in what car section and once again here, in the Wicked ICE section.

Regarding good brands to look out for while shopping;
HU: Pioneer comes first choice in features and VFM, Alpine comes in for good SQ, build quality and higher costs, JVC for good VFM and so does the Kenwoods.
Components: JBL comes first in VFM, Hertz and Illusions are famous for their mindblowing SQ with a bit higher prices and you can stay away from Pioneer, Fusion etc...
Amp: The Kenwood you have chosen will do it's job well. You may also check the JBLs, Pioneers, Alpines, Audisons, Genesis etc... Stay away from Sony, Auzo, Fusion and other unknown brands.
Your next car: Mercs are a good choice but expensive for ICE. Maruti cars are ok for ICE but they tend to rattle a lot that means more damping. Hyundai makes good cars for ICE. After zen estilo, the perfect car to upgrade would be the ...... Huh! This is the ICE section. As I told earlier, Let's discuss that in What car section later.

Some more guidelines which just came to my mind.
1. Regardless of the brand, choose what your mind is happy with.
2. Don't take any shortcuts by buying many lower quality stuff together and regretting later. Buy the best with your hard earned money and keep the rest aside for the next upgrade/step.
3. When you're done with/doing the setup, we will be very happy to read about it and see pictures of it. That actually makes our day more than anything.
4. All the above words are according to my liking and thinking. Think twice and hard before you decide to implement any.

All the Good lucks with your ICEing!
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Old 5th December 2007, 09:19   #18
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Post I love you guys for this! - a super long post from a Phone! whoa!

Ok I made you to speak - Me Happy!

I agree with your idea of "NO Hu No favor"
But you and a lot of other people mistook the idea.
The idea of running the setup from my MP3 player is to cunningly bring in the Amp into the setup, and then buy a good HU. it paves way for my step by step upgrade, I never wanted the setup to sound Best [to my ears] in the coming 2 or so months and I decide - OK This is done!

I would have settled with what ever I have bought if I bought a HU + 4 speakers. Dhud - no dhum in the ICE section then - right?

Well Ashok,

You and Speedzak made the same point, and thus concreting my idea on a Sub and Dampening! I was miserable in deciding a 6x9er for the rear before the Sub, I should have thought, but when you fellas think for me I can take the privilage of making small mistakes. Hehehe

2. The 3preout thingie, I discussed with B&T Bhai and thought 3preout is needed if i plan to go for a upgrade over the period of time. I agree we can live with a 2 preout comfortably!
I need to list the 2 and 3 preout HU's and See the feature list and compare before I take a plunge!

The JBL GT5s will be 4K for a 6.5'' comp. You'll need to cut the front door panels for a 6.5'' comp, or get a 4'' comp from Illusion for the stock location in the dash.
- no the Estilo comes with a 6.5"door panel, but I may need to cut the Plastic Grill area.

I replied earlier to Flyingbong.



Quote:
Originally Posted by hydrashok View Post
As always, I'm not in favour of bypassing the HU. If you take the big picture, you will need a HU somewhere down the line.

HU: I'd back Raghu on the Pio6950. Good HU is you're particular about 3 preouts *and* iPod connectivity. If you're not particular about the iPod, but 3 preouts are a must, you can get the 5950 and save abit of green.

BTW, why 3 preouts? You'll need 3 preouts only if you plan a 4ch amp + mono amp setup (and so naturally 4 speakers + sub) in the future. If you do, by all means, get a 3 preout HU. Else, if you'll be ok with a single amp setup (fronts and sub running off the amp, and the rears running off the HU) in the future, a 2 preout HU would do. Even a single preout HU would do, as you could fade the fronts and rears, keeping the sub-level constant. You'll get far more options for lesser if this is what you plan to close your setup with. You can settle for the Pio2950, or go for the Alpine 987x (single preout, but still has full speed iPod control, and I wager it will sound better than most HUs in the 8K range)

Speakers: You've got it right. Get comps in front. You can run them off the HU first, and then from an amp later. Since you have a limited budget, but still want low-end punch, I think you should leave the rears out, and get a sub instead (later), and get the rears last, if you really feel the need for them. Speedzak has mentioned all the options you can consider. The JBL GT5s will be 4K for a 6.5'' comp. You'll need to cut the front door panels for a 6.5'' comp, or get a 4'' comp from Illusion for the stock location in the dash.

Sub: A GT5-12 (5K) or a CS1204 (4K) should be fine.

Amp: 5k is good enough for the Blau GT4 special. But this amp will not drive a sub in a sealed box. It will be god enough for comps and 6x9s. A sub in a ported box or a bass-tube would sound ok with this amp. Other options would the upcoming GT5 series amps from JBL and Pio amps (the 6700) at about 7-8K. The kenwood amp you mentioned KAC8401 is reportedly a pretty good sounding amp.

You step-by-step plan is good, and the only change I'd suggest is to leave out the 6x9s as you really won't need them once the sub comes in. you can always get 5.25'' coaxials or 6.5'' coaxials for the back. And of course, I'd suggest getting a HU in the beginning, with the comps. You can get a 6K HU and 4K comps now. Or wait a while and get a 6K HU and 6K comps.

And as FlyingBong said, it would be a good idea if you fix a total budget for the ICE. It will help you decide on how much to spend now (and on what stuff to buy now).

[This has gotta be the biggest post I've made from my phone. please forgive typos Editing a post is tough from the phone]
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Old 5th December 2007, 10:55   #19
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Since you are in mumbai I would simple contact Ajay Bhai (Bass&Trouble) on this forum and all your dilemma to install the setup will be gone.
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Old 5th December 2007, 11:12   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedzak View Post
I am really impressed by the way you have planned to do your setup in step by step. Ofcourse, there would be some corrections I may like to make. But going the step by step way is very very correct if you are short in moolah.

I'd say, get the components and amp first. Run it off from the MP3 player (is it an iPod?). Use 2channels fro.
.
.
.
Some more guidelines which just came to my mind.
1. Regardless of the brand, choose what your mind is happy with.
2. Don't take any shortcuts by buying many lower quality stuff together and regretting later. Buy the best with your hard earned money and keep the rest aside for the next upgrade/step.
3. When you're done with/doing the setup, we will be very happy to read about it and see pictures of it. That actually makes our day more than anything.
4. All the above words are according to my liking and thinking. Think twice and hard before you decide to implement any.

All the Good lucks with your ICEing!
Was this just another helpful post or an entry for the ICE Section Threads' 'Hall Of Fame'? cheers:
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Old 5th December 2007, 12:05   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MillionSwords View Post
6k Every 2 months gap, if nothing else comes up...

Hope you get the idea?
I agree with Hyrdashok's suggestion to buy a HU first. You could consider the following phased plan, with about 3-4 months gap b/w each step:

Step 1: HU (2/3 preouts) + front components
Step 2: 4-channel amp + wiring
Step 3: sub + damping

Do consider spending a little more in Step 1

Rear fill/6X9 is not really necessary if you drive yourself most of the time.
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Old 5th December 2007, 13:06   #22
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I met B&T Ajay Bhai, he was so nice to have come from All the way down from Parel to santacruz to show me the Illusion Electra, though he works for Illusion, he extended such a friendly gesture, and I'm thankful for that.

We had a nice long chat, and will surely meet up again before setting up my ICE. I liked the Illusion Electra, it was subtle, and had nice features, it was not too bright, nor too subtle. I would attribute the thump in his car to the Sub and Speakers at the rear with some 2 AMPs, and Oh yeah a lot of dampening. Still I liked the Electra Compos.

II. Thanks to Pankaj Bhai, he was a very warm and nice man, just love the way he smiles and tells about his thingie with a neat touch of experience. FMDrive showed me how the MP3 player(generally called iPod) + AMP + Speakers would sound. It was just the right kind of stuff I wanted to listen to, and I fell in love with the setup immediately. I listened to the numbers I wanted to listen to, and love them! [[ @vebmetal - No doubt it works, and it sounds A M A Z I N G!! Just perfect man!]

One second I thought why not just Buy the 2CH Kenwood amp + The JBL CS Series 70 Watts Coaxial 6x9ers (used here for demo) and stay in peace! It sounded so neat and got the required thump and nice notes.

I'm yet to listen to the JBL Compos - Sam ji can you tell where I can get a demo of the JBL 6.5" Compos (guess the GT5 series?)
I wish to listen to the Hertz Compos again. I will go to the Blau showroom today, listen to the Blau 6.5" Compos and then decide on the Speakers.

Anyone willing to show me their Compos, Any Brand that we discussed here and in the range of 5-6k Please contact me through PM and I will be thankful for taking a few minutes of your precious time.
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Old 5th December 2007, 13:10   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble View Post
Was this just another helpful post or an entry for the ICE Section Threads' 'Hall Of Fame'?
Surely belongs to the "Hall of fame". @speedzak has excelled himself - this post was close to being poetic!!!

@MillionSwords, there is nothing inherently wrong in your plan - as long as you are able to get the prices to control the budget.

I am sure @B&T-bhai will be able to get you a real good deal for the Electra 6.5" for the front. The Hertz Deici would also be around the same, as would the JBL GTO607. Blaupunkt Velocity V6 Vantage would be a bit lesser at 5.5K. These would give a more than decent mid-bass whack. All the other eligible models would cost more: > 8K.

An alternative for the amp could be Blaupunkt GTA280 @5.5K (with b&w; lesser if you get a discount) - 2 channel with "Direct Aux-in" which will give you fuss-free connection for your PMP, and has adequate power. Wiring can be much less than the 3K you have assumed - you have to select the economical, not cheap.

When you upgrade, you can get a better 4-channel and use the 2-channel for rear fill with the 6x9's. 2 channels of the 4ch amp could be bridged to drive a sub (adequate for the Estilo, unless your likings grow to deafening proportions).

In a way, it is better to go for coaxials on the rear doors and add a sub as step 2, instead of the 6x9 on a parcel shelf in the Estilo (somehow, I can't get myself to call it a Zen; can't think of doing 170 in an Estilo that I did in the Zen).

@blueraven has put a sub under the seat of a M800 - I am sure you can too. Being up front, this arrangement is likely to be less power hungry.
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Old 5th December 2007, 21:33   #24
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I searched for "Illusion Electra", "Illusion Carbon" and "Illusion Component" in google, and found results only from TBHP and no where else. But Illusion audio had much more results.

Is the Illusion Audio Speakers relatively new to the market? or is that there are just no results in google? Just wondering?

B&T might pop in with some clarification?
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Old 6th December 2007, 13:39   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MillionSwords View Post
Is the Illusion Audio Speakers relatively new to the market? or is that there are just no results in google? Just wondering?
Illusion Audio web site:

::* i l l u s i o n** a u d i o* ::
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Old 6th December 2007, 15:49   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MillionSwords View Post
Is the Illusion Audio Speakers relatively new to the market? or is that there are just no results in google? Just wondering?
The Electra is a 2007 line. Carbons were the first Illusions. Been around since about '97, I think. The Lucents debuted around 1999 or 2000.
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Old 6th December 2007, 19:21   #27
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And now the Illusion EU series is being launched.. Was wondering whether available in India too?? Waise what do you think about this new series from the shelves of illusion... Any idea of there price range??
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