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Old 14th December 2007, 18:32   #76
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Guys any inputs on Ground Zero. I am getting the Titanium series in my budget.
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Old 14th December 2007, 22:09   #77
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Originally Posted by speedzak
We love (not the other type of love) and respect them.
Not true in Hydrash's case, Ok?

Every now and then he's stumbling on some ICE p0rn.
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Old 14th December 2007, 22:12   #78
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Guys any inputs on Ground Zero. I am getting the Titanium series in my budget.
Busa, you have the option to listen to a demo, get one. Some may say its good, others bad. No one can predict whether it would suit your taste perfectly or not.
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Old 14th December 2007, 22:17   #79
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Originally Posted by speedzak View Post
It's getting way too confused now! It was a bit earlier but now, it's heels over head!

What OE Alpine does Innova V comes with? I haven't seen it in any of our Innovas nor any I know.
And Innova V comes with dual din MP3 cd player. Cassette player comes in G3, G4 versions.

Monty, please do us all a favour by making your posts less confusing. I, sometimes don't understand what is the message you're forwarding. The 400 tweets post was completely flying over the head. And if you're associated with any audio brand, don't worry to expose it. Many others here also represent different brands. We love (not the other type of love) and respect them.
arre baba, aisi koi baat nahi hai. bahut simple funda hai. jaise becker merc ko supply karta hai, harmon BMW ko karta hai (may be 7 series only), aur Bose Porsche ko karta hai, waise alpine toyota ko supply karta hai. and har case mein naam nahi hota.

agar keeda hai toh dabba nikallo, achi se khol ke dekh lo, ya kisi bhi kayde ke installer se pooch lo. i cannot make any official statement, for neither do i have proof, nor do i think is alpine in agreement with toyota to disclose the brand name unlike honda.

the 400 tweets post was just a comparison of existing factory setup you get in the V model vs something you had to buy. i made a mistake of referring to them as alpine, which i think created the confusion.

the argument i am making is very simple. the V model comes factory fit with a good music system (which i understand to be an alpine without a label, if anyone can throw more light on this, i would appreciate). there is absolutely no sense is spending 15k in upgrading by a new HU and entry level components, unless one wants a full upgrade with amps. this money is better spent in damping, or in adding a pre-amped base box/tube.

i haven't listened to the G model. however, the V model, the honda civic and the accord, i can from my own personal experience vouch for.

before blindly changing these OE setups, i would recommend any person to demo them and compare them with entry level comps/co-axs. if a difference of 6w, a flashy unit and better sound (by how much?) is worthwhile for an entire new setup, of course nobody's stopped anyone. if anyone thinks they are crap, well, i beg to differ.

the kenwood OE in baleno ain't up to the mark (again my personal opinion). the innova V, i would definitely not change unless i had to step up to a Luccent, or a Hi-energy or any equivalent component set. ditto for civic and accord.

the mahindra's had some arrangement with a chinese supplier, i don't know if that's changed.

the tata's had an arrangement with blaupunkt. i believe the earlier indica's which came didn't have the label on them too, they were plain black HUs but they were made/supplied by blaupunkt as OE. while they may be stripped of certain features, it doesn't question their performance or reliability in any way. i think now they are being supplied with the name and from the current model line ups, at least in safari etc.

maruti had an arrangement with kenwood. however i think now there are maruti's which have nippon make speakers... which i have no clue about.

i hope all is clear. i would appreciate more inputs, more discussions on this. but let us understand, all opinions are personal... at least the gurus representing the industry should refrain from making such absolute statements...

there's also the scientific theory. before i make any statement like kenwood is crap, or OE is crap... how far have i done my homework???

is there anyone here who has changed the OE from the above cars to an entry level comp setup without amps and has noticed a change that's worth 15k?

have people complained after changing their OE speakers in the above cars and getting entry level comps, and not being entirely satisfied with it?

can we generalise and say that OE is crap? and what is our definition of crap? can i say accord OE is crap? can i say innova OE is crap? can i also say as pointed out by another guru, the S class has no remote for the rear seat, so that's crap? can i say that some guy in the forum bought a brand X which cracked/were thought to be fakes so they are crap? can i say that paper cone drivers are cheap so drivers with paper cone are crap?

i don't know. honestly, it's something you gotta decide.

:-)
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Old 14th December 2007, 22:21   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montyguru View Post
arre baba, aisi koi baat nahi hai. bahut simple funda hai. jaise becker merc ko supply karta hai, harmon BMW ko karta hai (may be 7 series only), aur Bose Porsche ko karta hai, waise alpine toyota ko supply karta hai. and har case mein naam nahi hota.
I am probably just nitpicking here.

Becker and Harman Automotive are the same company for many years now. It is called Harman Becker. However 7 series is harman/kardon.

Toyota does not have an official OEM declaration with anyone, except a certain famous orange coloured company.

toyotajbl.com
JBL Premium Sound for Your New Toyota
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Old 14th December 2007, 22:29   #81
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Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi View Post
I am probably just nitpicking here.

Becker and Harman Automotive are the same company for many years now. It is called Harman Becker. However 7 series is harman/kardon.

Toyota does not have an official OEM declaration with anyone, except a certain famous orange coloured company.

toyotajbl.com
JBL Premium Sound for Your New Toyota
baap re. that was a quick reply. so does toyota in india have JBL speakers which some of them have referred to as crap and some as not worth giving in the first place? (me too nitpicking ;-)) and who makes the HU?

i'm a becker fan. i love their HUs for their simplicity. there's one guy in worli and he quoted me two and half times the euro price. coming to think of it, the innova HU design is the same as becker, so is the display. (for the lack of finger stroking chin smiley)
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Old 14th December 2007, 22:43   #82
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Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble View Post
Not true in Hydrash's case, Ok?

Every now and then he's stumbling on some ICE p0rn.
Whoa! Not guilty, not guilty! I haven't even posted in this thread :(

And errr... *nudging with elbow and whispering* where's the p0rn?
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Old 14th December 2007, 22:45   #83
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So according to your definition, if I change my Honda Accord OE speakers to Hertz DSKs or JBL GTOs or Illusions (all far below 15k), I won't find any difference? Sorry Monty, I think You've got to have a look at those OE speakers to realise how pathetic they're. The only piece of metal in those speakers are the magnet which unfortunately is the size of a 5Rs coin. It's the same case with City, fiesta, Innova (slightly better), Aveo, etc... Only manufacturer (other than the super rich ones) which pays attention to this part is Hyundai. Their speakers are far better than their competition.

And Toyota has an OE supply agreement with Sony. I don't know if that still exists.
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Old 14th December 2007, 22:51   #84
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Originally Posted by speedzak View Post
So according to your definition, if I change my Honda Accord OE speakers to Hertz DSKs or JBL GTOs or Illusions (all far below 15k), I won't find any difference? Sorry Monty, I think You've got to have a look at those OE speakers to realise how pathetic they're. The only piece of metal in those speakers are the magnet which unfortunately is the size of a 5Rs coin. It's the same case with City, fiesta, Innova (slightly better), Aveo, etc... Only manufacturer (other than the super rich ones) which pays attention to this part is Hyundai. Their speakers are far better than their competition.

And Toyota has an OE supply agreement with Sony. I don't know if that still exists.
I with you,especially in Sonata music system was really good.It was a nice SQ setup.
@Monty why you going for damping if u want a 15k HU with entry level compos ?

Last edited by jerish666 : 14th December 2007 at 23:02.
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Old 14th December 2007, 23:05   #85
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Originally Posted by montyguru View Post
does toyota in india have JBL speakers
Only on CBUs. Not on cars made in India.
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Old 14th December 2007, 23:46   #86
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That was a nice and detailed explanation Monty.

I want to ask you guys if i buy 1st hand system of the Innova V how much will it cost. I dont think less then 10k. I have been qouted 4k for the HU alone, s obviously the buyer is also making a profit.

Sam, Can you please tell which are the Speakers from JBL used on the CBU's?
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Old 15th December 2007, 00:17   #87
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Originally Posted by speedzak View Post
So according to your definition, if I change my Honda Accord OE speakers to Hertz DSKs or JBL GTOs or Illusions (all far below 15k), I won't find any difference? Sorry Monty, I think You've got to have a look at those OE speakers to realise how pathetic they're. The only piece of metal in those speakers are the magnet which unfortunately is the size of a 5Rs coin. It's the same case with City, fiesta, Innova (slightly better), Aveo, etc... Only manufacturer (other than the super rich ones) which pays attention to this part is Hyundai. Their speakers are far better than their competition.

And Toyota has an OE supply agreement with Sony. I don't know if that still exists.
to get the logic right for the last time, i'm saying you'd be better off investing the 12k in damping and adding a pre-amped base box, if that's your budget. you'd get a worthy difference by this, than by simply changing your OE speakers to entry level comps.

if that's not your budget, and you wanna fix an amp, a sub and comps... then that's a complete setup, in which case you may have to change OE HU as it won't have pre-outs (unless you go for an amp that accepts speaker outs), and OE speakers coz they usually aren't meant for amps. and there's no debating if this will be better than OE. it will obviously be (unless you go for a lesser unknown local brand).

3 cars i can vouch for. the innova V. the civic. the accord.

i'm not even getting into the acoustics here. in fact as someone had mentioned (i think JB), the companies save a lot of money on components and the reason they get away with this is they spend on getting the acoustics right. magnet weights, paper cones and speaker baskets of gold are not their priority so long as they get what they desire in terms of sound.

yes, you may be JBL fan. or a brand fan who doesn't believe in HUs without a name. so there's no way you're gonna have any other speakers. that's like me, not having anything to do remotely with internet explorer whether it comes bundled free or not. firefox is it.
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Old 15th December 2007, 00:46   #88
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Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi View Post
Only on CBUs. Not on cars made in India.
So the Camry has JBL?
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Old 15th December 2007, 00:55   #89
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So the Camry has JBL?
The Camry is a CBU????
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Old 15th December 2007, 00:57   #90
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Originally Posted by montyguru View Post
to get the logic right for the last time, i'm saying you'd be better off investing the 12k in damping and adding a pre-amped base box, if that's your budget. you'd get a worthy difference by this, than by simply changing your OE speakers to entry level comps.
Monty I don't know where you get all that from. Let me try and clarify:

1) Entry level comps surely sound better than OE speakers. Atleast JBL, Illusion, etc do. I have heard both and can confirm this with eyes closed in a demo car with OE speakers in one and the brands mentioned in other. Could be possible that Dhoom and all sound similar to OE.
2) Do you really think a car would require damping (worth 12k) with OE speakers?
3) Which companies make VFM pre-amped base boxes?

Quote:
if that's not your budget, and you wanna fix an amp, a sub and comps... then that's a complete setup, in which case you may have to change OE HU as it won't have pre-outs (unless you go for an amp that accepts speaker outs), and OE speakers coz they usually aren't meant for amps. and there's no debating if this will be better than OE. it will obviously be (unless you go for a lesser unknown local brand).
I am badly confused. Would be very helpful if you could take a minute and read your posts. Are you trying to amp OE speakers or something and found it better?

Quote:
3 cars i can vouch for. the innova V. the civic. the accord.
For what?

Quote:
i'm not even getting into the acoustics here. in fact as someone had mentioned (i think JB), the companies save a lot of money on components and the reason they get away with this is they spend on getting the acoustics right. magnet weights, paper cones and speaker baskets of gold are not their priority so long as they get what they desire in terms of sound.
What is acoustics got to do with putting a Rs. 15k system in the Innova.

Quote:
yes, you may be JBL fan. or a brand fan who doesn't believe in HUs without a name. so there's no way you're gonna have any other speakers. that's like me, not having anything to do remotely with internet explorer whether it comes bundled free or not. firefox is it.
With all due respect and concern for time taken by members to post, I'd request you to take some time off and go through a very well required thread here (A YetiGuide® : How To Post In Proper English). I know you didn't ask for it but still.
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