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Old 26th December 2007, 17:47   #1
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Unhappy Sound Quality not good on new ICE setup. Help!

Guys,

After lots of late night sittings on TeamBHP, finally for my Swift, I got Pioneer 7950UB and Hertz speakers installed this monday from Driven. And somehow, it seems, sound is not at all convincing...

here is smthing bout the setup...

I got Pioneer 7950UB as HU, Hertz Deici components for the front doors and Hertz Deici co-axials for the rear doors...both 6" (Could not try out JBL, but thats a diff story which i will explain in some install post)

And here is the problem...

Its just too bright...i have tried all equilizer settings, but am not able to get the sound i want...but how do i explain this? Ok, for those who have heard of "Saathiya" music by A.R.R., there is a song 'Aye udi udi'...in that song there is a very visible (audible) Guitar sound playing thru the whole song...but when i play it on my setup, the guitar turns into just too bright feeble note...smthing what we call here as chan-chan...and if i reduce treble too low or to Flat, again the whole listening experience suffers!! And in thumpy songs like mauja-hi-mauja...the vocals do not get the attention they deserve...which is something unlike i have seen before. sounding repetitive, but i have tried all possible custom equilizer combos, but to no avail


Now, as per a newbie brain, following is my list of culprits in this scenerio:

1) Is Pioneer + Hertz combo to be blamed? Which other HU should I try which can give a smooth, not-too-bright, but rich music?? Alpine is out as its very costly in India...so shud I try JVC, Kenwood?

2) The tweeters have been placed at extreme right and extreme left of the Top of dash...somewhere at the bottom-corners of front glass...went for this location as Driven guys said they can only be accomodated here if i dont want a hole in my new doors...So, Is this location of tweeters WRONG?? What is the ideal location???

3) I decided not to go for 6x9 on tray in the rear...as many posts here suggest that tray solution is not ideal for a Swift. But, when sitting in rear seats, i was missing some serious soundstage which I am so used to owing to rear-tray Xplods am listening for couple of yrs...the co-axials at doors were just not able to pump out good sound:(. A very Imp Ques - Is it possible that sound quality improves if i go for rear 6x9 on tray??? Or will SQ get worse?

Right now, am not going for an Amp...hence speakers is all i got to give me a smile! So, kindly dont suggest an Amp as solution to all these pains...or is it something just inevitable??? I will go to Driven again so will try out any changes that you guys here suggest - brand, location of speakers, anything...But, give me some sound which allows me to shake my head without buring pocket holes!
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Old 26th December 2007, 17:54   #2
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Have you auditioned the same before installing or you just got it installed because of recommendations on the forum ?

Post some pics of the tweeter for the location.

Last edited by low_bass_makker : 26th December 2007 at 17:58.
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Old 26th December 2007, 18:01   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by low_bass_makker View Post
Have you auditioned the same before installing or you just got it installed because of recommendations on the forum ?

Post some pics of the tweeter for the location.
I wanted to audition but Driven ppl said they dont have JBLs...which I so wanted to try out! And had to leave for Christmas day excursion, hence went for Hertz...Regarding HU, he said the only one he has right now is 7950 in Pioneer (or Alpine which is 12K without USB :O)...The install finished by 8 in evening so just left for home...But anyway, i am going there coming weekend...

I have clicked the pics, will upload in next couple of hrs (once i reach home)
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Old 26th December 2007, 18:06   #4
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hi maverick,

am curious at the first point as to why you didnt audition JBL?

the best solution i can see here is to go to driven and give a call to gunbir. i'm sure he'll help by all means.

what i've heard is that hertz has a good SQ oriented sound, and i would owe your problems to a poorly tuned setup. hertz is believed to perform QUITE well even if its powered off the HU.

1. Pio + hertz setup is used by many here, so it should not be a problem. kenwood would offer a laid back sound so if possible to exchange the HU, audition and go for it.

2. No comments as there is no benchmark about the placements. same as some prefer it with soda, some with coke and some neat.

3. Yes, 6X9 significantly adds the bass and overall SQ.

Last edited by panky12345 : 26th December 2007 at 18:07.
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Old 26th December 2007, 18:35   #5
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Pata nahi ye mods-approved-post-only wali restriction kab khatam hogi :(

Ya, I wanted to try JBL but they were not available at Driven that day...further Driven man Mr. Rana said that JBL will work well only with an Amp...so settled for Hertz...
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Old 26th December 2007, 19:21   #6
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There's nothing like JBL will only work with an amp. I'm sure that's not what he meant.

Yes. The Pioneer 07 HUs + Hertz Dieci speakers turn out to be very bright. You can check my Qualis ICED thread as I also had a similar experience. I changed the HU to Alpine (just for trial) and woooaaah! It was smooth as butter. The problem is Pioneer HUs puts out less than 18w rms per channel and that's barely enough for the components. It'll make the tweeter work well but will hardly move the woofer. So, the overall sound will be bright.

Easiest solution is to try with a different HU. If you want to stick to the features offered by the Pioneer (they're some excellent ones), then add an amp and make things easy. While adding an amp, you can also think of a small sub which will make your whole setup a complete and rocking one!
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Old 26th December 2007, 19:56   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedzak View Post
There's nothing like JBL will only work with an amp. I'm sure that's not what he meant.

Dunno what the installer here meant, but of the four or five guys I met mere said same "You put in JBL only fi you want an amp".

The problem with overriding instllers / workshop / mechanics in this city is that if something goes wrong with the workmanship, they will not own up responsibility and say "appoze paranjille JBL venda ennnu??"!!!! (I told you not to go in for JBL)

A prayer to the yeti - please get a good nice drill and drive this into the the dealers' skulls (brains may not exist) - "speakers work without smps".
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Old 26th December 2007, 20:23   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maverickzCar View Post
Its just too bright...i have tried all equilizer settings, but am not able to get the sound i want...

2) The tweeters have been placed at extreme right and extreme left of the Top of dash...

3) I decided not to go for 6x9 on tray in the rear...

Right now, am not going for an Amp...hence speakers is all i got to give me a smile!
1. A good person to ask for help is Gunbir. He knows Driven and he represents Hertz and would know how to extract the best from them.

2. I assume the tweeters have been installed on the A-pillars, door panels are better but this install is fine too.

3. For Swift I would get speakers in all 4 doors and a compact sub in the trunk (the sub would need an amp).

Before you go about fiddling with the HU first set ALL EQ settings on the HU to flat and tell us what part of the frequency spectrum you find lacking.
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Old 26th December 2007, 20:43   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
For Swift I would get speakers in all 4 doors and a compact sub in the trunk (the sub would need an amp).

But then the budget goes for a toss, doesn't it ? What if the option was between selecting between speakers in the back door stock location and 6*9 in an MDF tray ? Which one would you suggest ?
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Old 26th December 2007, 20:57   #10
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Dude I have the same setup in my car. you can check the link.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/sound-...ft-hertzd.html

I have my headunit's settings absolutely flat and at times I customize them for more bass.
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Old 26th December 2007, 21:25   #11
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Hi,

even i fing my setup bright for my taste. it could be due to the pio HU. i think they are on the brighter side. when i installed a kenwood HU, the brightness went down a bit.

for now, i have cut the treble a bit. i tried to diy an l-pad but the resistors were huge. but im gonna still build the l-pad and mount it somewhere close to the amp in the boot.

a -3db L-pad is good. if you want to try that let me know or ask navinji. and confirm with Gunbir if the warranty will not get void using an L-pad(Loss Pad)

I don't think you can do much. but gunbir would be a better person to ask.

its just my opinion. don't blame me if anything goes wrong

cheers
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Old 26th December 2007, 22:54   #12
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If its possible to change the HU, give a try to the blaupunkts.. they sound great for the price, but still, Alpine is Alpine! no two ways about it!

BTW, what volume level do you listen at? Dont expect much out of a HU to power the speakers. The "shrillness" could also be distortion at a high volume level. Try listening to your setup a lower volumes and see if you still find it shrill.

EDIT: the L-pad sounds like a good idea. See if your installer will do it for you, otherwise, you'll have to DIY!

Last edited by shrivz : 26th December 2007 at 22:56.
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Old 27th December 2007, 00:10   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by low_bass_makker View Post

Post some pics of the tweeter for the location.
Here they are........



Quote:
Originally Posted by speedzak View Post
There's nothing like JBL will only work with an amp. I'm sure that's not what he meant.
Maybe he would have elaborated more, but since JBL were not available with him, I didn't ask in detail. But I remember clearly that he said - JBL will need an amp to sound well enough. I still am not sure if this was completely or partially incorrect (or fully correct).

Quote:
The problem is Pioneer HUs puts out less than 18w rms per channel and that's barely enough for the components. It'll make the tweeter work well but will hardly move the woofer. So, the overall sound will be bright.
Are you sure about this? I checked Alpine 9883's specs and looks they too put out 18w rms (here: Alpine CDA-9883 CD receiver with MP3/WMA/AAC playback at Crutchfield.com) where as Pioneer 7950UB gives out 22w rms (found in some forum on googling). Am not sure if am right here, but seems Pio is giving better output per channel. Can you pls confirm?

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post

2. I assume the tweeters have been installed on the A-pillars, door panels are better but this install is fine too.
Navin ji, pls check the above pics. What do you think of such setup?

Quote:

3. For Swift I would get speakers in all 4 doors and a compact sub in the trunk (the sub would need an amp).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
But then the budget goes for a toss, doesn't it ? What if the option was between selecting between speakers in the back door stock location and 6*9 in an MDF tray ? Which one would you suggest ?
That's exactly my question too, Navin ji. Given a choice for my Swift, what should I select - 6" speakers in back door OR 6x9 in tray?? The only factor to be considered is Sound Quality (I can bear with some rattles of tray if sound gets considerably better).
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Old 27th December 2007, 00:58   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shrivz View Post

EDIT: the L-pad sounds like a good idea. See if your installer will do it for you, otherwise, you'll have to DIY!

i doubt the installer knows about how to build one. its driven right?

if he can't diy, he should try to look for it in chandni chowk(lajpat rai market). maybe its available there. but i don't think it will be.

if it is, then its great. get a few for me as well. lol.

he will need 2 4 ohm lpads or he can parallel two 8 ohm pads for one 4 ohm.

it is not at all difficult to build one though. there are many websites having calculators. you just have to punch in your speaker's impedance and attenuation in dB. thats it. you will have the resistor values. then you can get 10-20 watts wire wound resistors(non inductive if they are available).

Navinji, what will happen if one just use a single resistor in series or parellel? i think only the impedance will go up. do amps have a problem driving high impedance speakers?

again, do it at your own risk if you want to and make sure it DOES NOT VOID the warranty. i don't think it will. ask gunbir to confirm though.

cheers
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Old 27th December 2007, 02:12   #15
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The fact that you bought Hertz speakers and that you're asking questions on this forum means that you're serious about getting good sound in your car. If thats correct then the best course of action would be to buy an amp (or start saving up for one). Getting a decent amp would result in a huge improvement in the sound. Also think about adding a sub to your setup.
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