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Old 12th March 2009, 12:00   #46
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@frank mehta - Thanks for the reply, i need to ask, did you meant i must add two more subs ? What is your opinion for kicker subs and amplifiers.
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Old 6th April 2009, 11:03   #47
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Hi Vicky,

I had a Kicker amplifier till yesterday and it was a 2 channel amplifier driving one Polk Momo sub. I could comfortably tune up the volume till about 30 on my Pioneer HU and it would sound decent.

Yesterday, the devil whispered something into my ear. He said get a JVC KS-AX5602 2 channel amplifier and another Polk Momo sub.

Now I am physically not able to get the volume to more than 4 (at maximum) and the maximum volume on my system is 60. The polks are expensive (8k). You can buy 5 Pioneer subs for the price of 2 Polks, but the power output and the bass is comparable to about 6 Pioneer subs. But trust me, they are worth every penny. The amp is about 8.5k and the subs (2) are 16k. So for about 24k, you would have one of the best sounding cars in Mumbai. You can take my word for it.
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Old 6th April 2009, 11:08   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramie2400 View Post
hmmm so as the posts increase i am getting confused confused and """FUSED""" I know for a fact that i wrote 25k budget and will go off spending more than 40k with getting tempted by some good SQ boofers :(
Ramie,

Get one JVC KS-AX5602 2 Channel amplifier. Hook it up to two Pioneer or JBL 12" subs. This will cost the following:

- JVC Amp - 8.5k
- Pioneer Subs (2) - 6k
- Box + Wiring + Installation - 5k

Total is 19.5k. Trust me, you will not find a better amp for this price anywhere. I have the same amp with 2 polk momo subs in my Fiesta and the decibel levels are on par with 6 Pioneer subs. If you are wondering, the Momo subs are about 8k each. The amp is outstanding!! Check it out!
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Old 6th April 2009, 11:21   #49
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@ HRT: ramie has one of the best SPL setups on this forum now and runs a very successful audio install business. this thread was started in his early days of joining here!
as far as your system is concerned, i think its wrongly tuned. if the volume on 4 on your head unit makes such a din, then the amplifier and head unit settings must be checked.
your comparison of 2 polk momo subs with 6 pioneer subs amused me to no end :-)
but as long as you're happy with the system and enjoying your music, nothing else matters, really.

Last edited by frankmehta : 6th April 2009 at 11:23.
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Old 6th April 2009, 12:53   #50
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Originally Posted by HRT_FPV View Post

Now I am physically not able to get the volume to more than 4 (at maximum) and the maximum volume on my system is 60. The polks are expensive (8k). You can buy 5 Pioneer subs for the price of 2 Polks, but the power output and the bass is comparable to about 6 Pioneer subs. But trust me, they are worth every penny. The amp is about 8.5k and the subs (2) are 16k. So for about 24k, you would have one of the best sounding cars in Mumbai. You can take my word for it.
I salute to your enthusiasm for your ICE setup but there is surely some thing wrong here, Like Franky pointed out. Get your gains setup properly then you will surely take things to a higher level.

For comparing 6 subs to 2 subs it all depends on the enclosure made. I would agree on your assumption but only when we put pioneer in a bad enclosure with incorrect voulme and polk in a perfectly matched to it specs.
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Old 6th April 2009, 15:27   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
@ HRT: ramie has one of the best SPL setups on this forum now and runs a very successful audio install business. this thread was started in his early days of joining here!
as far as your system is concerned, i think its wrongly tuned. if the volume on 4 on your head unit makes such a din, then the amplifier and head unit settings must be checked.
your comparison of 2 polk momo subs with 6 pioneer subs amused me to no end :-)
but as long as you're happy with the system and enjoying your music, nothing else matters, really.
Hello Frank,

Comments noted and appreciated! Agreed that excess bass on volume 4 means that something's wrong with my system. I achieved this with all settings tuned to max. This is not meant for normal hearing.

As far as matching 6 Pioneer subs go, I have achieved matching 12 Pioneer 12" with 3 Cerwin Vega Stokers. I was the runner up in the 1999 Sony Car Audio competition won by Charles in Chennai. I have matched 8 Pioneer 12" subs with one Sound Stream amp and 2 Cerwin Vega Stokers.

And I have currently managed to match 6 Pioneer 12" subs with 2 Polk Momo. It is all about the enclosure, sound dampening, wiring, capacitors, etc. There is absolutely no way that the Pioneer can match up to the Polk Momo.

My current project is on in my Civic where I am installing an Earthquake HoLeeS subwoofer. If it is possible to complete (subject to rear windshield, suspension and boot holding power), this one subwoofer is expected to match 40 or more Pioneer 12" subs. This is a 15000 watt subwoofer matched with 3 Earthquake amps, 4 capacitors, 3 extra batteries, revamped alternator.

I will post pics and certification details when available. The level is sound doesnt' depend on the number of subs or amp, but finer details like the quality of sound dampening sheets, directional moulding, placement, etc.
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Old 6th April 2009, 18:50   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HRT_FPV View Post
My current project is on in my Civic where I am installing an Earthquake HoLeeS subwoofer. If it is possible to complete (subject to rear windshield, suspension and boot holding power), this one subwoofer is expected to match 40 or more Pioneer 12" subs.
LOL..that is fun...Navin Ji we need a theory lesson here..

Even if we take a pioneer as a 88 db/m sensitivity sub woofer and go according to the table we have

1 sub -> 88 db/m
2 subs -> 94 db /m
4 subs -> 100 db/m
8 subs -> 106 db /m
16 subs -> 112 db/m
32 subs -> 118 db/m

No I do not think the Earthquake sub is 118 db/m sensitive.

Which Subwoofer and Amplifier-holes.jpg
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Old 6th April 2009, 19:50   #53
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Wow.. let's see you get 40 Pioneer subs to max power for 1 minute straight and I'll show you the Earthquake Holees beating them.

Theory lessons are great, but practical experience is proven. You can race a F1 car on the Playstation, doesn't mean you're Lewis Hamilton.

Point is, on paper, yes, I accept you are right. 1 Holees can't beat 40 subs.

I guarantee in installation, 1 Holees will beat more than 32 Pioneer 12" subs.

On record, I'm throwing an open competition in Chennai probably in June. I'm entering with 1 subwoofer. Bring a car with as many subs as you can fit (preferably 40 Pioneer subs) and I'll show you facts on a paper.

It's not due to lack of "theory" knowledge that I chose to spend 5 lakhs on one subwoofer, amplifier, wiring, etc.
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Old 6th April 2009, 20:25   #54
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<bows to north indian and south indian low bass makers>
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Old 6th April 2009, 20:42   #55
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Hmm i need to check this thread more closely now.

@HRT_FPV:any pics of these subs which you are reffering too,even if it matches 20 pioneer 12"inch,i'll be more excited to upgrade my low running subs.

@Frankybaba when's the ICE meet happening,wish to meet you someday

EDIT:HRT Sir,5Lakhs is not a very big amount to spend on subs/amps/wiring..there are many on the forum who have more than that in their cars

Last edited by ramie2400 : 6th April 2009 at 20:44.
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Old 6th April 2009, 23:05   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramie2400 View Post
Hmm i need to check this thread more closely now.
+1

hrt can you post the detail of the setup that you are planning on your civic hu,amps,wiring multiple alternator.really want to see what all will drive the 15000 watt subwoofer.
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Old 7th April 2009, 02:39   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramie2400 View Post
Hmm i need to check this thread more closely now.
+2 Here also...I wanna see how is your WIP. And pics of the stuff you plan to install and how. What all amps and batteries you are considering and how are you going to wire them. Since I am a SPL lover my self I would love the details...
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Old 7th April 2009, 10:41   #58
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EDIT:HRT Sir,5Lakhs is not a very big amount to spend on subs/amps/wiring..there are many on the forum who have more than that in their cars [/quote]

Ramie sir, show me 1 person who has spent 5 lakhs on 1 subwoofer, 1 amplifier and wiring.

This excludes the cost of revamping my suspension, because I need people to sit in the back seat too. If the amp and sub are going to take up about 80 kgs and if I have rear seat occupants, the Civic already being a low slung car, will scrape the bottom over most roads (at least here in Chennai).

Any suggestions or advice on how to install this dead weight without compromising on rear seat occupancy will be greatly helpful!

@low_bass_makker - Most definitely mate! Will post pics when there is some amount of development. At the moment, we are checking to see the strength of some components of the car. I would agree that all of us here are lovers of good music and even better sound systems and it would do us much good to collaborate rather than squabble on petty things. For this reason, I apologize to fellow forum members for sounding the way I did. Not who I am! I could be right, I could be wrong! I first need to complete the finishing touches for my Fiesta. The moulding took up too much space and I've reverted to an enclosure for the time being. I have to figure out what to do next before I start work on the Civic.

Regarding the pics, I will do that, but I need some help on posting pictures. Since I'm new here, I'm really lost on doing that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by karankapoor View Post
+1

hrt can you post the detail of the setup that you are planning on your civic hu,amps,wiring multiple alternator.really want to see what all will drive the 15000 watt subwoofer.
Hi Karan,

I'll post pics when there is considerable development. All I've done now is procure the subs from my brother in the USA.

On a different note, I get my car mods at a place in Chennai. The owner of this place is installing a MTX Jackhammer 22" which has been inspired by this show on VH1 called Pimp My Ride (I'm sure you heard of it). This is being done in a Ford Endeavour with just the 2 front seats remaining. The side windows and rear windshield will be ripped out and replaced with a full steel body. This will be the one of the very very few rides in the world having a Jackhammer 22".

@low_bass_makker - Mate, this one subwoofer is expected to drill out in excess of 135 dbs. We'll just have to wait and see.

Last edited by Rehaan : 7th April 2009 at 14:37. Reason: Posts merged.
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Old 7th April 2009, 12:21   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HRT_FPV View Post
My current project is on in my Civic where I am installing an Earthquake HoLeeS subwoofer. This is a 15000 watt subwoofer matched with 3 Earthquake amps, 4 capacitors, 3 extra batteries, revamped alternator.
1. I dont think adding caps will allow you to hit higher SPLs
2. By linking 3 amps each amp will see 0.67 ohms. Ouch!
3. About the Hooles woofer. It is reputed to have a peak to peak xmax of 100mm+ that would mean that the one way linear xmax would be about 25mm which is still a lot. It does this by having a huge Mms (580gms) and the motor is still puny (for a woofer this size) at 21.3TM. If a stiffer suspension was used the Fs would have been pushed up, if a bigger motor was used Qes would have gone up pushing Qts and hence F3 up. If you look ath the PDF on the website you will see that the designer built this woofer to provide SPL around teh midbass (60-70Hz region).
http://www.earthquakesound.com/IMAGE...S/holees15.pdf

Quote:
Originally Posted by low_bass_makker View Post
No I do not think the Earthquake sub is 118 db/m sensitive.
No it is not but he intends to power it with 15000 Watts which means that is the subwoofer's suspension holds (does not compress) he can hit a theoretical SPL of about 127db. If he pushes the Q to a point where he gets a 6db boost at peak we are talking 133db but some of this gain might be negated beacuse if you read between the lines on the same PDF you will realise that the designers do expect some compression above 10000W.

But this in theory. Practice often yeilds different results.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HRT_FPV View Post
This excludes the cost of revamping my suspension, because I need people to sit in the back seat too. Any suggestions or advice on how to install this dead weight without compromising on rear seat occupancy will be greatly helpful!
Also remember that this 80kg box will be located in the trunk. So much additional weight in the trunk will affect the car's handling at high speeds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HRT_FPV View Post
The owner of this place is installing a MTX Jackhammer 22"
@low_bass_makker - Mate, this one subwoofer is expected to drill out in excess of 135 dbs. We'll just have to wait and see.
As a rule I am not too fond of woofers supproting this design concept. They do manag to hit very high SPLs but they are not often musical. Then again it might just be a factor of what I call music vs what is called music by today's generation. 30 secs in my nephew's car gives me a headache.

HRT, I wish you all the luck. I would love to see the installs of that 22" and your 15" subwoofers. Yes the technology has changed as much as the definition of music has, but that is just my bias. I acknowledge that it is guys like you, LBM etc.. who keep pushing the envelop. If it were up to old foggies like me we'd still be living with the JBL D130.

Like I have said before the game changed. I did not. One good reason why I should NOT be included in the list of Gurus here.

Last edited by navin : 7th April 2009 at 12:22.
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Old 7th April 2009, 12:41   #60
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Quote:
Ramie sir, show me 1 person who has spent 5 lakhs on 1 subwoofer, 1 amplifier and wiring.

This excludes the cost of revamping my suspension, because I need people to sit in the back seat too. If the amp and sub are going to take up about 80 kgs and if I have rear seat occupants, the Civic already being a low slung car, will scrape the bottom over most roads (at least here in Chennai).

Any suggestions or advice on how to install this dead weight without compromising on rear seat occupancy will be greatly helpful!
look back on the last page and see for yourself that its turned out to be a battle of egos or all show, no go in layman terms. the 'mine is bigger' thing doesnt work here amongst us team bhpians. there will be atleast 15-20 people on this forum who have spent more than 7 lacs even! they will not wish to be named. so its better we dont get into numbers here. 5 lacs is a big amount nonetheless, and we are happy you have spent 5 lacs ONLY on the ICE. good for you. so what's the query then, if you know what you want and more so, better than the people who have been trying to suggest you and be helpful?
lets be open to discussion and not have a comeback to everything that is said!
with your ICE.

Last edited by frankmehta : 7th April 2009 at 12:42.
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