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Old 8th February 2008, 17:25   #16
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Originally Posted by navin View Post
Of late (the older gents here will remember) there are too many woofers with 1KW voice coils, 25mm+ of linear Xmax, 200+ gms cones. Most of these woofers just dont let the music through.
Let us take two subs with 1000 watts power handling and 25 mm xmax. and another subs with 10 mm xmax and 400 watts power handling and both of them will having similar sensitivity. Which will play cleaner when given 400 watts power. I think it will be 1000 watts wala because it will not reach the maximum xmax in 400 watts power but again there are lots of other parameter to be considered.

So considering the subs on the base of specs I will take it to be a secondary issue. I would first try to listen to it first.

Like Gunbir Phaji said knowing car specs is a one thing and test driving the same is another.

A similar thing happened with me . I only looked at the Hyundai Viva power specs which had a 102 bhp engine and had slower acceleration than maruti esteem which has a engine of 85 bhp.
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Old 8th February 2008, 17:28   #17
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Originally Posted by gunbir View Post
The engine specs (Theil Small parameters), the lineage (brand positioning), the test drive (listening session) will tell you if its a fast car (SQ sub)... its not written on the car (sub).
This is the problem with most of us. We wont be able to audition one. :(

and about brand positioning, can we have a list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lbm
Let us take two subs with 1000 watts power handling and 25 mm xmax. and another subs with 10 mm xmax and 400 watts power handling and both of them will having similar sensitivity. Which will play cleaner when given 400 watts power. I think it will be 1000 watts wala because it will not reach the maximum xmax in 400 watts power but again there are lots of other parameter to be considered.
true, thats what one would like to know.

Last edited by jkdas : 8th February 2008 at 17:32.
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Old 8th February 2008, 17:32   #18
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This is the problem with most of us. We wont be able to audition one. :(

and about brand positioning, can we have a list?
Ya that is a big issue having able to listing to the product.

About the brand positioning it will be a difficult task as few will like maruti and hyundai and few will hate them. It all depends on ones opinions.
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Old 8th February 2008, 22:42   #19
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For me, an SPL oriented sub is where I will try and compare my last booming session to the current one. Will want to somehow measure the noise generated in absolute terms, maybe once a while, once a week or maybe even once a day And refer to my notes where I log my results from the last session.

For Me, an SQ oriented sub will be that where I'd rather concentrate on the more smiles/goosebumps per mile equation and not some absolute measures.
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Old 9th February 2008, 01:14   #20
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sq sub is like a beautiful girl, you can listen to her all day long.
spl sub is like a horny girl, for a short period she's amazing(till the job is done)..but one tends too lose the interest later.

what i actually mean(for those naughty ppl) is sq sub is designed for daily and long listening. where as spl subs are designed for people who like to compete in db drag racings and all.

i am sure everyone here loves music..and beautiful girls
everthing existing in this world have a purpose...only one can judge whats best for him/her.
and yes the sub box makes a lot of diffrence
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Old 9th February 2008, 10:48   #21
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LOL. Nice thread.

First we are taught with example of slow and fast cars. Now beautiful and horny girls.
Good going guys. :-)

I suspect next post is going to be by the Yeti. hehe.
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Old 9th February 2008, 10:59   #22
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@amagujral : what a comparison!!

I guess this is where S Q L would come in!! Certain schools of thought believe SQL doesnt exist ;p heheheh
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Old 9th February 2008, 11:04   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by low_bass_makker View Post
Let us take two subs with 1000 watts power handling and 25 mm xmax. and another subs with 10 mm xmax and 400 watts power handling and both of them will having similar sensitivity.

I only looked at the Hyundai Viva power specs which had a 102 bhp engine and had slower acceleration than maruti esteem which has a engine of 85 bhp.
LBM creating a woofer that has 25mm Xmax and having similar sensitivity to a woofer with 10mm of Xmax (all other specs (BL, Cms, Mms, Qes, Qms, Fs, Vas...etc) remaining constant is going to be rather diffcult if not impossible.

To have large Xmax one has to stiffen compliance and use a large motor which raises Fs, so to drop Fs to realistic levels one ups Mms and that means the motor is now not big enough anymore and one needs a still larger motor...sooner or alter you have real issues with back emf, sensitivity, etc..

Last edited by navin : 9th February 2008 at 11:05.
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Old 9th February 2008, 11:11   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s0uljah View Post
@amagujral : what a comparison!!

I guess this is where S Q L would come in!! Certain schools of thought believe SQL doesnt exist ;p heheheh
Ya Souljah SQL is a kinda of girl which can be posh for good parties and ready to strip you out also. Which all SQ + SPL subs cannot do.

And I don't think there is no meter to measure horniness of a girl
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Old 9th February 2008, 11:33   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
LBM creating a woofer that has 25mm Xmax and having similar sensitivity to a woofer with 10mm of Xmax (all other specs (BL, Cms, Mms, Qes, Qms, Fs, Vas...etc) remaining constant is going to be rather diffcult if not impossible.

To have large Xmax one has to stiffen compliance and use a large motor which raises Fs, so to drop Fs to realistic levels one ups Mms and that means the motor is now not big enough anymore and one needs a still larger motor...sooner or alter you have real issues with back emf, sensitivity, etc..
Hmm I agree Navin Ji chalo let us take a very close example. The IDq and IDMAX. Both are equally good subs and very well reputed ones also. If we give both of them 500 or 600 watts power which will play cleaner.

IDq

Nominal Impedance (IMP)2 / 8 ohmDC
Resistance (Re)1.75 / 7.0 ohms
Resonant Frequency (Fs)19.7
HzElectrical "Q" (Qes).276
Mechanical "Q" (Qms)4.4
Total "Q" (Qts).259
Equivalent Volume (Vas)5.82 ft3
One Way Linear (Xmax)13.7 mm
Cone Area (Sd)530 cm2
Sensitivity (Spl)89.9 dbRMS
Power Handling (Pwr)100 to 500
Speaker Displacement.07 ft3


IDmax

Nominal Impedance (IMP)2 / 8 ohmsDC
Resistance (Re)1.95 / 7.9 ohms
Resonant Frequency (Fs)20 Hz
Electrical "Q" (Qes).404
Mechanical "Q" (Qms)2.18
Total "Q" (Qts).341
Equivalent Volume (Vas)5.81 ft3
One Way Linear (Xmax)24.6 mm
Cone Area (Sd)545 cm2
Sensitivity (Spl)88.1 dBRMS
Power Handling (Pwr)200 to 1000
Speaker Displacement.12 ft3


Both the subs have quite similar Fs, Vas, Sd, the Qts is also quite close. Senstivity is also 88.1 and 89.9 having a differnce of 1.8 db.

So which will be playing cleaner with 500 watts power. Idmax or Idq ?
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Old 9th February 2008, 11:45   #26
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Originally Posted by low_bass_makker View Post
And I don't think there is no meter to measure horniness of a girl
That's where one needs to use his experience and brains. Some other parts of the body too will contribute in making a decision on that. Many guys (I know of) are good experts in this thingy.
Sorry! Nobody relies on meters to measure this.
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Old 9th February 2008, 11:47   #27
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Must say that this is a very nice thread.

But, as Johy has said earlier, it would be very very nice if someone could actually mention the specific brands and models for both categories of subs.

I agree, both SQ and SPL are more dependent on a person's perception as well as various other factors, but still, there must be some general consensus as to which brand/model is SQ and which is for SPL.

Like almost everyone would agree that a Ferrari is a sports car, but to someone with limited knowledge and exposure, even a Merc SLK (or for that matter, a Miata) is a proper sports car!

So, for people living in smaller cities, who cannot afford to have a demo of more than a couple of Subs (or everything else in general), listing out the names of products will be very helpful.

Regards,
Jaspreet Singh
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Old 9th February 2008, 11:52   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by low_bass_makker View Post
If we give both of them 500 or 600 watts power which will play cleaner.
IDq
Mechanical "Q" (Qms)4.4
Total "Q" (Qts).259

IDmax
Mechanical "Q" (Qms)2.18
Total "Q" (Qts).341

So which will be playing cleaner with 500 watts power. Idmax or Idq ?
Look at Qms. Also I suspect that the BL and Mms numbers of the IDMax will be higher (than those of the IDQ) but the BL/Mms ratio of the IDmax will be lower than the IDQ.

my guess is that in a ported box the IDq will play louder than the IDmax while the IDmax will suit a sealed box more.

BTW you will not need the full 500W to push the IDQ (in ported box) to it's limit though. It is not the ammount of power you use but the highest clean/transient perfect SPL one can achieve that is important.
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Old 9th February 2008, 11:54   #29
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Originally Posted by speedzak View Post
That's where one needs to use his experience and brains. Some other parts of the body too will contribute in making a decision on that. Many guys (I know of) are good experts in this thingy.
Sorry! Nobody relies on meters to measure this.
Oh.. I was referring in context to SPL meter anyways how will you made one measuring 180 db with experience and brains.

Ps- At 180 db no brains will be left.
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Old 9th February 2008, 12:05   #30
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Quote:
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Ps- At 180 db no brains will be left.
Oh I suspect brains would have been lost long before 180db was achieved. :-)
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