Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > In-Car Entertainment


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 8th February 2008, 12:46   #1
BHPian
 
johy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Siliguri
Posts: 840
Thanked: 370 Times
Question SQ subwoofer - what exactly is it?

Hi folks,

Out of my own curiosity and upon Gunbir's advice, I am starting this new thread on what exactly a SQ subwoofer is.

Is it one that has tighter, less boomier bass, one that plays the lowest of the lows of the bass notes? One that Navinji would describe as "giving me the goosebumps."

Or is there more to this? More than meets the ears?

How does one know a SPL sub from an SQ sub?

More importantly, which subwoofers would one recommend for SQ use? Both the pricey ones and the less pricey ones - across all major brands.

- John.
johy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2008, 13:04   #2
Senior - BHPian
 
hydrashok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: In my Office
Posts: 2,528
Thanked: 14 Times
Default

Well, IMHO an SQ sub:

1) Reproduces Bass frequencies exactly as they are meant to sound (no boosting/cutting). Also, reproduces ALL bass frequencies faithfully, and not just a few bands. And there will be no uh, "hangovers" or "ghosts" of the previous bass notes lingering on to colour the bass note being played currently at any point of time.

2) Instruments (like the bass guitar) sound as close as they would sound, had they been played live.

3) Blends in with the rest of the speakers seamlessly.

4) Concentrates on reproducing the finest of details, rather than raw volume of bass.

5) Can reproduce even the quickest of transient notes.

6) In order to do all of the above, the sub will have play fast and tight. And IMHO the sub will normally need to be a low-excursion design to do this.

The best SQ Sub I've heard is the IDQ V2. Haven't heard the IDMax or the IDQ v3. I haven't listened to a whole lot of other subs either. But IMHO, the IDQ satisfies all of the above points I've mentioned.

EDIT: The enclosure in which the sub is placed will also have a lot to do with how "SQ" the sub will sound -- even in the case of a sealed enclosure. So the SQ "sub" is actually the SQ sub-driver + the SQ enclosure.

Last edited by hydrashok : 8th February 2008 at 13:05.
hydrashok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2008, 13:05   #3
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Faridabad
Posts: 6,814
Thanked: 294 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by johy View Post
Or is there more to this? More than meets the ears?

How does one know a SPL sub from an SQ sub?

More importantly, which subwoofers would one recommend for SQ use? Both the pricey ones and the less pricey ones - across all major brands.

- John.
You said it your self. It depends on ones tastes.

Like Sam Bhai explains " Baba SQ is like a dal, Mere mummy ke dal is better than tere mummy ke dal"

As taste of food is irrespective of amount of masala put into it same is the case here. Same sub would be music to ones ears and crap to other. So choose what you like.

SPL sub will have more power handling, will he heavily built when compared to SQ sub. But the SQ sub will play better than the SPL sub. (I would take it as a general statement exception can be there)

The list can be a long one. Very much depends on budget, application and tastes.
low_bass_makker is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2008, 13:10   #4
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Faridabad
Posts: 6,814
Thanked: 294 Times
Default

Hydra you well explained how to judged a sub. What factors are important and one have to check. But what you like may not be like by other person. The IDq sounds good to you and It might not sound good to me.
low_bass_makker is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2008, 13:21   #5
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Sam Kapasi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Mumbai (but wat
Posts: 6,989
Thanked: 1,452 Times
Default

Be warned about one thing. SQ is a very general term. It merely stands for sound quality.

And one man's meat is another's poison. So before this thread sparks of any war, let me tell you that a difference of opinion is expected and is welcome.

All opinions are respected. Even the ones that are not agreed to.
Sam Kapasi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2008, 13:27   #6
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Faridabad
Posts: 6,814
Thanked: 294 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi View Post
Be warned about one thing. SQ is a very general term. It merely stands for sound quality.

And one man's meat is another's poison. So before this thread sparks of any war, let me tell you that a difference of opinion is expected and is welcome.

All opinions are respected. Even the ones that are not agreed to.
I agree to you Sam Bhai. This SQ term is quite molested at times.
low_bass_makker is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2008, 13:30   #7
Senior - BHPian
 
hydrashok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: In my Office
Posts: 2,528
Thanked: 14 Times
Default

True

But, I think that to some extent, what we all look for in a sub also has to do with the kind of music we prefer to listen to. That is where I think the difference lies.

And I do think that subs can be classified by their general characteristics and how they tend to reproduce bass. They would follow these (innate) characteristics regardless of what music is played. So that would help us predict how they will sound, and so decide whether they would suit our individual tastes in music.

Now, how we classify the subs (and what basis we use for doing that) is what causes the confusion

Somebody who likes a lot of bass in the music he/she listens to would automatically prefer a sub that emphasizes that aspect of the music, right? And so in choosing a sub, he/she would prefer a sub that would go louder, and give more quantity of bass (than a sub that may not play as loud, but emphasizes the finer nuances of bass). Not that this person does not like listening to the nuances of bass, but that he/she prefers the emphasis to be on quantity first, with secondary emphasis on detail.

Somebody who does not like that much bass in music would prefer... well, I guess you understand what I mean, right? (Exactly the opposite of the above example).
hydrashok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2008, 13:56   #8
Team-BHP Support
 
navin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: mumbai
Posts: 22,505
Thanked: 3,882 Times
Default

Sound (bass included) is dependant on not only the elements that directly produce sound (front ends, amps, speakers) but also the software, the enviroment and perception.

a good subwoofer will do all that Hydra listed above (in post 2) and then some. A good sub's presense is not heard but it's absense is felt.
navin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2008, 14:51   #9
BHPian
 
johy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Siliguri
Posts: 840
Thanked: 370 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hydrashok View Post
True

Somebody who likes a lot of bass in the music he/she listens to would automatically prefer a sub that emphasizes that aspect of the music, right? And so in choosing a sub, he/she would prefer a sub that would go louder, and give more quantity of bass (than a sub that may not play as loud, but emphasizes the finer nuances of bass). Not that this person does not like listening to the nuances of bass, but that he/she prefers the emphasis to be on quantity first, with secondary emphasis on detail.
This guy (somebody as in above) likes SPL bass, right? And vice versa for SQ?

@LBM - while I am sure SQ bass (and SPL bass), like home-made dal, would depend on taste, can't there be a general consensus on some SQ subwoofers in different price bands? I am sure a lot of us on the forums are looking for specifically that. It is more often that not the case as most of us don't have the privilege (or the tenacity) of auditioning 5 subs before choose that 1.

For example, SQ subs for less than 10k
Then SQ subs for more than 10K
And more than 20K, etc.

Similarly, for SPL subs.
johy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2008, 15:48   #10
BHPian
 
Proxima's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chennai
Posts: 801
Thanked: 3 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
A good sub's presense is not heard but it's absense is felt.
Nice one Navin, this was like one of Rajinikant's dialogues.
Proxima is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2008, 15:48   #11
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 2,462
Thanked: 20 Times
Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by hydrashok View Post
Well, IMHO an SQ sub:

1) Reproduces Bass frequencies exactly as they are meant to sound (no boosting/cutting). Also, reproduces ALL bass frequencies faithfully, and not just a few bands. And there will be no uh, "hangovers" or "ghosts" of the previous bass notes lingering on to colour the bass note being played currently at any point of time.

2) Instruments (like the bass guitar) sound as close as they would sound, had they been played live.

3) Blends in with the rest of the speakers seamlessly.

4) Concentrates on reproducing the finest of details, rather than raw volume of bass.

5) Can reproduce even the quickest of transient notes.

6) In order to do all of the above, the sub will have play fast and tight. And IMHO the sub will normally need to be a low-excursion design to do this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hydrashok View Post
True

But, I think that to some extent, what we all look for in a sub also has to do with the kind of music we prefer to listen to. That is where I think the difference lies.

Now, how we classify the subs (and what basis we use for doing that) is what causes the confusion
Hydra, nice posts...

OK how about we try and analyze, what is defined as a fast car?

- Maruti 800: to someone who just upgraded from a scooter, its a fast car.
- Maruti Zen: to someone who just upgraded from an 800, its a fast car.
- Maruti Swift: to someone who just upgraded from a Zen, its a fast car.
- Maruti Baleno: to someone who just upgraded from a Swift, its a fast car.

So what about the Lambos and the Ferraris? Aren't they fast cars? And What about the track cars and drag cars? Aren't they fast cars?

Perception is based on point of reference. Opinions are born out of perception. The reality of it is that as people experience better things, their perceptions change, as do their opinions.

What do I call an SQ sub? Which ones do I call SQ subs? It really doesnt matter in the long run cuz tomorrow there will be something better out there, and the SQ sub of today will be a "less SQ" sub and I have have a "more SQ" sub.

Now that I have vented my frustration, let me confuse you...

Any sub can be an SQ sub. If it is tuned properly, in the right enclosure, with the right placement, EQ'ed properly, blended properly with the front stage, makes the music seem wholesome without attracting any attention towards itself, etc etc. Just like any Civic can be tuned to be a fast car.

Then there are several application specific products... like a 911 GT2 is meant to be a track car. Similarly in car audio you have subwoofers specifically designed to be SQ subs. They will blend easier, need little or no EQ, work well in a straightforward box etc etc, and sound as good or better than the regular sub.

Some common traits I have noticed of such SQ subs...

- It will usually have reasonable power handling, not kilo watts though.
- It will be fairly efficient.
- It will have a reasonably flat response.
- It will usually have classic looks, not chrome and blingy.
- It will have a good combination of cone area and excursion.
- It will sound transparent, not thick or lumpy

gotta run now... more later...

Last edited by gunbir : 8th February 2008 at 16:07.
gunbir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2008, 16:34   #12
Team-BHP Support
 
navin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: mumbai
Posts: 22,505
Thanked: 3,882 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunbir View Post
Some common traits I have noticed of such SQ subs...
- It will usually have reasonable power handling, not kilo watts though.
- It will be fairly efficient.
- It will have a reasonably flat response.
- It will usually have classic looks, not chrome and blingy.
- It will have a good combination of cone area and excursion.
- It will sound transparent, not thick or lumpy
...
I think gunbir has done a good job of listing what one should look for in a sub (any sub SPL or SQ) as one may have noticed that extreme excusrion (loose suspension), extreme power handling (big heavy voice coil) etc are a no no. This is what one should be aware of. Of late (the older gents here will remember) there are too many woofers with 1KW voice coils, 25mm+ of linear Xmax, 200+ gms cones. Most of these woofers just dont let the music through.
navin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2008, 16:43   #13
BHPian
 
roopakr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: KL-01,KL-07,KA-01
Posts: 135
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

So for a lehman like me...How do I find whether the sub is SQ or SPL ?Is it mentioned some where on the sub ?
roopakr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2008, 16:59   #14
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 2,462
Thanked: 20 Times
Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by roopakr View Post
So for a lehman like me...How do I find whether the sub is SQ or SPL ?Is it mentioned some where on the sub ?
The engine specs (Theil Small parameters), the lineage (brand positioning), the test drive (listening session) will tell you if its a fast car (SQ sub)... its not written on the car (sub).

Last edited by gunbir : 8th February 2008 at 17:05.
gunbir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2008, 17:21   #15
Distinguished - BHPian
 
jkdas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Thiruvananthapu
Posts: 9,661
Thanked: 1,389 Times
Default

ah, hope this thread doesnt go too techy with xmax and sort.

For me,its my mood. I sometimes want it to be SPL and sometimes SQ. SQ rules 75% of the time though and I guess this is what most people would like.

It sure would be great if someone can post the models that one can look at while auditioning (if possible) based on price range.

This is gonna be a tough process as

1) sub running on mono or a bridged channel may sound way different and people may have different opinions of same sub/amp combination.
2)stick to your budget, atleast have a price range.
3)and selection of amp to go with the sub matters. (Get a good mono if can afford)
4)if you cant find a good installer, dont experiment, get a company/branded sub-box.
5)Wiring matters
6)You can do the upgrade setup by step like use an amp in bridged mode now and later get a mono.

As Gunbir said, Swift is faster, so too is a Civic. But sometimes the driver matters too.
jkdas is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
MUL's Dzire,what is exactly wrong? Why So much Delay in delivery? ECM The Indian Car Scene 162 24th August 2010 13:37
Active Subwoofer vs Free Air/Enclosed Subwoofer Epic In-Car Entertainment 2 2nd December 2009 10:59
Not exactly a street Experience pramodkumar Street Experiences 16 29th July 2009 14:23
Health and Fitness of TBHP members. What do you exactly for fitness? anujmishra Shifting gears 2 8th September 2008 12:21


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 13:08.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks