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Old 23rd June 2009, 09:57   #76
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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Sorry, I meant shaadi.com-style relaxed informal pics ('huduga ella kelasa maduttane' type), as opposed to 'stiff' PP photos, for the family album.
Thats funny man...

The thread was a little serious all these days till my picture came up and OT talks.
Hope AK doesnt mind.

Last edited by shreyasma : 23rd June 2009 at 09:58.
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Old 23rd June 2009, 13:04   #77
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Have you biamped your components.
If not, why don't you try biamping them.
They will be much more loud.
I haven't and am not at building a loud system. Nevertheless, I don't have any idea of benefits of bi-amping. I read a little bit this morning but am still not sure what benefits it will give. If I have to bi-amp, I will have to invest around 2.5k in buying speaker cables. Will the benefit justify this investment? What does it means for the amplifier? My amplifier is a two channel one, and is rated at 100 RMS@4 ohms and 225 RMS@2 ohms. Everyone, please share your thoughts.

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Arey yaar, if you didn't have the wire attachment for the screws you could have improvized, na. Take a small tin, put some common sand (maralu) in it along with the screws, put on some latin music and dance along with it, using the tin as one would use maracas. Get with the beat - chhak-chhaka-chhak-digi-chhak-chhaka-chhak - and within a few minutes the screws would be free of any rust!
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Look like pretty much standard M4x10 to me, the kind used in contactors (heavy duty relays) or old screw type high-current terminal blocks. Check in gujri, AK, you are bound to find some - they always have a square bent washer to accommodate thick wires.
Thanks DerAlte for your thoughts. Let us try some of this and will post updates.

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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Sorry, I meant shaadi.com-style relaxed informal pics ('huduga ella kelasa maduttane' type), as opposed to 'stiff' PP photos, for the family album.
Someone, please translate the phrase in bold for me. Thanks.

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Thats funny man...
The thread was a little serious all these days till my picture came up and OT talks.
Hope AK doesnt mind.
I never intended this thread to be serious. I am only happy if your presence lightens it up. So you are most welcome. Moreover I think we are making good progress and learning everyday.

Last edited by akbaree : 23rd June 2009 at 13:09.
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Old 23rd June 2009, 13:19   #78
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Someone, please translate the phrase in bold for me. Thanks.

Boy does all kind of work

Last edited by bkishore_77 : 23rd June 2009 at 13:21.
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Old 23rd June 2009, 13:36   #79
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Times have changed, na. Earlier it used to be the girls whose qualities were presented: can sew and do embroidery ("see, see the table cloth?"), sing ("come on ma, sing that bhajan?") and dance ("she was awarded gold medal by Swami so&so"), cook ("all the sweets and samosas are made by her, even the tea"), MA pass, etc. etc. Now it is the 'boy' who comes under scrutiny (electronic mediium) - "Eji, can you check if the boy can cook and clean the house? You know our ladli cannot do one paisa worth of work"!!!

Sorry, AK, this was serious OT!
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Old 23rd June 2009, 18:39   #80
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Originally Posted by akbaree View Post
I haven't and am not at building a loud system. Nevertheless, I don't have any idea of benefits of bi-amping. I read a little bit this morning but am still not sure what benefits it will give. If I have to bi-amp, I will have to invest around 2.5k in buying speaker cables. Will the benefit justify this investment? What does it means for the amplifier? My amplifier is a two channel one, and is rated at 100 RMS@4 ohms and 225RMS@2 ohms. Everyone, please share your thoughts.
If you have 2 channel , you cannot biamp them.
You need 4 channels to biamp a set of components.
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Old 24th June 2009, 08:54   #81
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Originally Posted by abhinav.gupta88 View Post
If you have 2 channel , you cannot biamp them.
You need 4 channels to biamp a set of components.
As I said I don't know much but it may be possible to bi-amp with a two channel amplifier by running parallel speaker cables from one terminal of the amplifier to the two terminals of the component crossover. Gurus, please throw some light on bi-amping.
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Old 2nd August 2009, 13:32   #82
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Originally Posted by akbaree View Post
More pictures to follow, once the lighting solution and finishing touches are done.
-----------
Guys, the lighting solution will take some more time. I am a noob in this area. So thought of posting the daytime final pictures.

You can see my reflection in the sub driver...
My long ordeal with my car's ICE-dscn5830.jpg

You can see how precariously the light is secured. It used to reflect badly from the chrome plate of the mono amp so I have now mounted it with LED facing the wall. Will need some work to fix it...
My long ordeal with my car's ICE-dscn5835.jpg

The broken edge now goes at the back where it has support, so no worries.
My long ordeal with my car's ICE-dscn5840.jpg
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Old 2nd August 2009, 13:44   #83
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Wow! I missed this one. Please post a darkness pic with the light on and also a close up of the LED.
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Old 2nd August 2009, 13:46   #84
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The re-tuning part...
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The Sub box is from BassFx and is a ready-made one. It was 1.25 cubic feet and fell under recommended volume of 0.85 cubic feet to 1.25 cubic feet. But I wanted tighter bass and so have reduced the volume of the box to 0.85 cubic feet by putting inside wood blocks. I calculated the volume of the wood blocks and have put approximately 0.4 cubic feet of wood blocks.
I always thought that I was good in mathematics but my belief has started to shake. I had already shared how my initial TA calculations were all wrong. This time I realized that I had messed up with the Sub box volume calculations as well.

After some extended listening session, I had started feeling that my Sub is not playing lower frequencies with an aplomb. Some songs will have a phuttish (I cannot define that sound any better) kind of bass sound. This has been more evident now because of getting the TA right.

It gave me an indicator that there's an issue with the volume. Thanks to Shreyas who shared with me some online calculators for a wedge enclosure. On recalculation it came out that the box volume is 1.0 cubic feet and with all the stuffings, the volume was close to 0.65 cubic feet; a good 0.2 cubc feet less than the minimum recommended volume.

So out came the half of those stuffings and the volume is now 0.9 cubic feet. The Sub sounds straight out of the heaven and I can now correctly calculate the volume of a wedge box without an online calculator (not that any special skills are required).

Note: I am feeling sad that I had abused the Sub, initially with high gains on the Amp to compensate the wrong volume of the box to get that extra punch. The voice coils of the Sub might be cursing me. I am not sure if that abuse has reduced their lives. I can only pray that they haven't.
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Old 2nd August 2009, 14:40   #85
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Re-tuning (part 2)...

I couldn't believe that 0.2 cubic feet can have so much tonal difference in the sound of the Sub. But my lust for betterment remained unsatiable.
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Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble View Post
...Their contention has also been that a more natural sounding speaker will not need any equalization to sound good.
I don't know, but with more time I am spending with my system, I feel that the above statement is more of a misnomer. I agree with the Gurus that more options you have (like equalization, crossover, etc) the more you tend to abuse them. But any informed user may begin with an abuse but may end up with an great sounding setup. At-least that's how it has been in my case.



On exploring further, I realized that compromising on crossing the Sub at 80 Hz is not a good idea. But the front components have Fs at 86 Hz and so crossing them below 80 Hz anyways doesn't achieve much. So what do I do now?

I am now crossing the Sub at 63 Hz and the front components at 80 Hz.

I have been using 4th order crossovers (from the HU). After scratching my head for some days, I thought of playing around with the crossover settings. To bridge that frequency gap, I have started using lower order crossovers. I am now using a 2nd order crossover (12db/octave instead of 24db/octave) on the Sub and a 1st order crossover (6db/Octave) on the front components. With TA I don't need the advantages that higer order crossover give. Gurus, please share your thoughts if I have moved in a wrong direction.

My long ordeal with my car's ICE-dscn5844.jpg

The sound stage has improved greatly and the integration of fronts and Sub is just awesome. I am loving this journey. The best my system has ever sounded.

I am saying this for amateurs and noobs like me that if you know the weaknesses of the drivers and also know how to exercise the equalization, and other options like TA, Crossovers to address those weaknesses, you can use them to have a great sounding set up without needing to spend a bomb.

I still have a long pending list of experiments to do... but that would take a long time. Till then, keep enjoying your music...

P.S.: Thanks frankmehta; your assertion that there's a pause button encouraged me to find one. Out of the 19 control buttons on the interface of this HU I regularly use 17 of them (during a CD playback and I only play audio CDs). The pause button happen to be one of the three buttons that I don't get to use. It is the number 3 button on CD7100. If they can mark buttons 4, 5 and 6, I am not sure why the hell they didn't mark number 3.

Last edited by akbaree : 2nd August 2009 at 14:42.
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Old 2nd August 2009, 16:36   #86
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Why are you LPFing the sub at 63 and HPFing the mids at 80.
Don't you want to hear the frequency range 63-80.

The LPF of sub and the HPF of mid bass should be the same.


P.S. The display on the 7100 is much better than that on 7200mkii
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Old 2nd August 2009, 17:14   #87
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Originally Posted by akbaree View Post
As I said I don't know much but it may be possible to bi-amp with a two channel amplifier by running parallel speaker cables from one terminal of the amplifier to the two terminals of the component crossover. Gurus, please throw some light on bi-amping.
nope, thats called bi-wiring, not bi-amping.Bi-amping requires two amps as denoted by the term "bi". Bi-wiring onto a passive crossover will make a minimal impact and you could probably get an identical effect by just running a single wire then removing the jumper bridges on the passive and replacing them with a small piece of identical wire between the spots where the jumper was bridging instead of the copper jumper

also in a car the odds of hearing any difference due to bi-wiring gets minimised when the car gets switched on, thus you wont really hear much of a difference, well actually that means a noticeable difference anyway. So IMHO its a bit of a waste of wiring

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The LPF of sub and the HPF of mid bass should be the same
actually no, since the filters operate at a slope ie in other words what happens is if you have a filter at 50hz and it operates at 12db/octave then at 25hz it will be 12db lower. It doesnt mean that at 50hz you will get a brick wall drop in your frequency response, it means that it will be gently dropping.

so now if you have the same crossover point on your midbass then what happens is that where the output of the two drivers drop then you will have a slight hump in the response because you have two differen drivers outputting the same frequencies, this effectively makes it seem like theres too much of that frequency

hence when speaker designers actually design crossovers then they get the actual crossover point to be at the -3db point of the drivers but if for example you were using a butterworth filter it would be at the -6db point with a slope of 12db/octave whilst if you used a linkwitz reilly filter it would be at the -12db point with a slope of 24db/octave

so technically having a bit of an underlap is actually required if you were aiming for a really flat response because you have for example a 40hz crossover low pass for your sub and a 60hz high pass for your midbass then the bits inbetween get up to the same levels of output as the rest because both the drivers are reproducing those frequencies at a decreasing rate and once you fully understand slopes and how to calculate actual crossover points you can calculate exactly what your low pass and high pass filters should be set at. thats already how passive crossovers work

Last edited by naughty001 : 2nd August 2009 at 17:26.
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Old 2nd August 2009, 17:23   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abhinav.gupta88 View Post
Why are you LPFing the sub at 63 and HPFing the mids at 80.
Don't you want to hear the frequency range 63-80.
the slopes are not infinite so there willl still be output between 63 and 80. In one system I had (1978 Honda CVCC) the sound was best with an overlap between 63 and 80Hz. It was then I realised that the boost in this region caused by the overlap was helping compensate for the road noise.

There are no absolutes in audio. That is what makes it so much fun, irritating, contentious, and gets us all hooked.

Oh I forget there are TWO absolutes.

1. There is NO Holy Grail. - That would kill the fun wont it.
2. Trust YOUR ears. - Most people do not trust themselves enough.
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Old 2nd August 2009, 18:59   #89
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Originally Posted by akbaree View Post
... You can see my reflection in the sub driver...
Aha, so you learnt taking photos in the Far East, looks like! Feet set wide apart, knees bent and bottom lowered - like Chinese / Japanese photographers!!! (Sorry AK, just couldn't resist it!)
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... The broken edge ...
Broken edge? What broken edge? Looks GREAT, man! Even the seemingly missing piece (bottom left) looks like an artistic touch.

Must have an audition some day. Great job, AK.
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Old 2nd August 2009, 19:56   #90
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I rarely come to ICE section. But akbaree, what dedication!

I don't understand sound quality and all that but seriously like to see/listen to that setup soon. Let me know if that is possible.
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